Disadvantages of joining a sorority?

Parents Forum
741

<p>CF- you are not a stupid woman; why are you not getting it?</p>

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<p>You CAN. You can be like me, who kept my friendships largely within the house because that’s what appealed to me, or you can be someone who has a wide network of friends from other campus activities / classes. It’s up to the individual. It’s not dictated. You have got some weird concept in your head that joining a sorority means that you aren’t allowed to form other friendships outside of it, or that they are discouraged in some way.</p>

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<p>I doubt they are as diverse in family income as the campus at large, simply because they are a relatively costly activity. I doubt the sailing team is, either, since that’s a relatively costly activity. So what? Are people under an obligation to only select friends that are fully representative of the campus at large?</p>

<p>And no one has SAID that they are “as diverse” in race / religion as the campus at large; however, cartera and I have simply related that back in the 70’s and 80’s, though, there were girls of all different backgrounds and no one blinked an eye. </p>

<p>We’re looking at LAC’s for my kids. It’s clear that each has its own personality – outdoorsy, granola, quirky, laid-back, intense, urbane / sophisticated, down to earth, etc. Obviously, to some extent, my kids are going to want to find LAC’s that have vibes that is generally similar to their own. Why is this a good thing when choosing LAC’s – but a bad thing when trying to narrow down a university and find a smaller place to fit in? </p>

<p>Let me be more specific. All else being equal academically – If my D determines that her defining characteristic is being outdoorsy, what’s the difference between a) choosing Colorado College, where all the kids have an outdoorsy vibe, b) choosing a larger university and becoming involved with outdoorsy activities on campus, or c) choosing a larger university and winding up at the “outdoorsy house”? Why are the first 2 OK but the last bad?</p>

<p>As for diversity – my friends were no more or less diverse than the friends I would have gravitated towards if there hadn’t been a Greek system.</p>

742

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<p>Then that officially sucks. But when you say it is determined by the sororities, there is still a natural limit as to how large any sorority can be, based on the size of the house – you can’t have a 500 member house, it loses any cohesiveness; you can’t absorb 150 new pledges. Then Indiana University should try to get MORE national sororities to colonize and absorb some of the overflow.</p>

<p>Coming from the system where the quota was determined by taking the girls at the end and dividing by the number of houses – that seems really the only humane way to do it.</p>

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<p>Why should sororities (or any Greek org.) be more humane than very selective colleges that somewhat limit the number of slots for students each year? Being selective is just as important to some Greek houses as it is to the Top 50 colleges.</p>

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<p>At Indiana, the sororities require that every member has to live in the house until she graduates. At virtually all other schools, if everyone can’t fit in the house, some live off campus and it’s no big deal. This includes schools where Greek life is practically a religion, like Washington & Lee. But at Indiana, there are X beds in the houses, so there can’t be X+1 sorority women, and that’s that. It’s a big negative for IU in my opinion.</p>

<p>Oddly enough, some schools like Mississippi and Alabama that have a reputation for being very competitive/exclusive are willing to have huge chapters in order to accommodate all the interested women. The sororities often have 250 members or more – but almost everyone gets in somewhere.</p>

745

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<p>Well said, PizzaGirl. I’m a non-Greek and I certainly “get this.” I’m starting to think that anyone who doesn’t is making a conscious effort not to.</p>

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<p>fwiw, I just want to add, that in my 3 years in my house, I never once heard other girls “put down” the girls who were in what some here have referred to as the “lower tier” houses. (Noting also that the comments on this thread about the “ugly fat girls” going through rush were made by non-Greeks.) We all knew that every girl in every house was enjoying the same special experience as we were, and ours was no better than theirs.</p>

747

<p>CF:

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<p>Because I talk fact and don’t sugar coat it.</p>

<p>Please show any sorority that has same composition as that of the college at large. While you name a university and I’ll show you one sorority at that university doesn’t match the racial composition of the University.</p>

748

<p>OK, so Hanna, you are saying except at Indiana, every woman who wants to join a sorority will be invited to join some sorority (but maybe not her favorite)? If that is true, it takes care of my main objection against sororities, which is that they reject people.</p>

749

<p>CF, no, not every. A large majority of interested women will be invited to join somewhere if they do not drop out – at a lot of campuses, that majority might be 99% of women. Individual sororities still reject people, but the system strives to be inclusive.</p>

<p>Tufts is the only school I know where there’s a 100% guarantee that every interested woman can join.</p>

<p>ellebud, one of my clients this year is highly interested in you and your daughters’ alma mater. If she rushes, I’ll let you know how it goes.</p>

750

<p>Cardinal Fang, I said that way upthread as well. That it was very unusual for a girl to be cut by every single house, and aa long as she made it to the end she would get into a house unless SHE “suicided” (that is, she “cut” every house but one). The quota was set by seeing how many girls went to the last round divided by the # of houses. My class was 30; the year after it was 35, then 40, then went back down again. If a girl had some reasonable social skills, she could find a place. The cutting works both ways, a point that is very important to know. Sometimes girls have their hearts set on being a DG or ChiO or Kappa or whatever, they decline all other invites, then they get cut and complain that rush isn’t fair. Both sides need to have open minds about who they meet. You keep putting all the power on the house.</p>

751

<p>That was my D’s experience this year. She - and quite a few other girls - had no experience/ knowledge of sororities. They were really “open-minded” about the process. One girl, unlike the others, had her heart set on one particular house from her first day on campus. Well, she did not make a bid at any other houses and ended up not getting a bid anywhere.</p>

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<p>CF: Even though individual sororities are not racially and economically as diverse as the college campus at large that doesn’t mean that an interested girl will be rejected from all sororities. At most college campus each girl will at least find one sorority where she will fit right in to it.</p>

753

<p>I tremble to post. Really. This has been such an interesting experience to read (every post, oh yes!) since I chose a college that was historically dedicated to having no fraternities or sororities since its inception. So I REALLY don’t know.</p>

<p>I’m trying to see where is the common idea that can boil down all these pages of discourse. Understand I mean no offense to anyone. But could it be that, when all is said and done, young men and women are given the authorization by national organizations to vote upon their peers. Among professional adults, “peer review” is the toughest form of rejection and perhaps the most valued form of acceptance. </p>

<p>Can’t we agree at least that rejection, in general, is an unpleasant and long-remembered experience. Those who were accepted can’t ever “get” what it felt like to not make it in, right? And those like me who never experienced a Greek system on their campus have no way to evaluate what it did, or didn’t feel like – then or now. </p>

<p>Instead we generalize about every other form of acceptance/rejection in life, whether being the kid never chosen for the sandlot team (talking informal play, not coached/guided choices); the boy who never hears “yes” when asking a girl for a soda; or the “always a bridesmaid, never a bride” syndrome. </p>

<p>There are some topics one can argue til the cows come home, but what you can’t get past is the feelings – real, perceived, or retold by others – associated with having a thumbs up- thumbs down by agemates.</p>

<p>If anyone can get me past that, it’s exactly where I’m stuck in understanding why it’s a benign system of social life. And I really mean it, I’m not trying to take a side here. S-2’s very happy and productive in a charitable-oriented Fraternity and he’s taught me a lot of the up-sides. I’m glad he’s in it. My older 2 chose colleges that disallowed Greek societies. So my parental experience is certainly split and poorly informed from direct knowledge.</p>

<p>What IS the common denominator of these 51 pages? Perhaps, looking at the title, “Disadvantages of Joining a Sorority” is that anyone’s listed “disadvantage” is disagreed with, usually via factual information and not confronting the feelings issue. The idea that there’s a place for everyone is countered by the fact that the “everyplace” one lands is lower in social status.</p>

<p>I find this a challenging thread, honestly; not sure how or when it could ever end.</p>

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<p>CF - it is sometimes difficult to find out how many girls are cut from rush before the final rounds because no sororities have put them on their lists, even at schools that adjust the openings in sororities to the numbers of interested girls and invite new chapters to open colonies as interest expands.</p>

<p>Before each day of rush after the first round, my daughter’s rush counselor contacted girls and gave them schedules to visit the sororities that invited them back. As I mentioned earlier, the dress guidelines made the process easier than might have been the case otherwise, as there was much less worry that a girl would be cut for inappropriate dress.</p>

<p>Some girls were invited back to several houses, up to the maximum allowed for each round, and others to only one or two. Some were cut from most houses fairly quickly, while others were cut towards the end. It could be possible that some girls did not receive any invitations for return visits as soon as the second round. This was not something that was openly discussed. It is possible at most schools to look at the numbers that begin rush and the numbers accepting bids, but more difficult to find out how many drop out because no house at all offers a bid, rather than those who hold out only for a desired house rather than the house that wanted them.</p>

<p>I would also keep in mind that at many schools the girls who begin the rush process are a self-selected group. My daughter, who was in the “nerdy” crowd of girls taking multiple AP classes in high school, does have friends from high school who are having trouble finding a social comfort zone at their colleges, and might find sorority membership a real boost, but who would not do well with the rush process and could easily end up in the minority of girls (10%, 15%?) not accepting bids because they were cut from the process before the last day of rush. </p>

<p>Some of her friends were very happy that they had gone to schools (such as Rice) that offer the residential college experience rather than a Greek system. In fact, we got the impression from our visit to Rice for Owl Days that many students do end up choosing between Rice and other academically comparable schools (NU, Vanderbilt, WUSTL, Chicago) at least partly because of the inclusiveness of the residential college experience and the absence of Greek organizations. I do not know if it is coincidence or not that among similar schools, Rice has a reputation for having students from different ethnic backgrounds mixing freely and easily with each other and also for having expectations for “dressing down” on campus.</p>

<p>The situation for spectrum students looking at Greek life is somewhat different, from what I have been hearing from parents in our area, in that they may have difficulty surviving rush OR being able to remain resilient and upbeat should they end up not getting a bid anywhere. </p>

<p>I do know of parents of AS students who breathe a sigh of relief when their children decide against rush and seek other ways to build a social life. It is obvious to me that this is easier to do at some schools than at others.</p>

755

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<p>This most definitely is a negative to the sorority experience. Earlier I related that I had been cut by a house I liked and it hurt. To this day I think about it, and I relived it as my Ds went through rush. Those feelings never went away.</p>

<p>Once you understand the rush process, however, it becomes much easier to rationalize the rejection: The girls could not possibly have really “known” me, so I was not rejected for who I am; or I just ended up at number 41 on the list and they could only take 40, and would have taken me if I had met different girls or the quotas were different; or, it was their loss in the end because I ended up being a huge asset to my house and our Greek system and they all know it now; and it really didn’t matter in the end because I loved the house I ended up with!</p>

<p>It really is like all rejection in life - wouldn’t it be great if this never happened - but it does, and all we can do is move on and realize it won’t make much difference in our lives in the long run. When one door closes, another one opens! Make lemonade! Living well is the best revenge! etc…</p>

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<p>Hanna,</p>

<p>If your client gets into my school I would be happy to offer any into on Los Angeles and sororities that is wanted. Good luck to her!</p>

<p>Ellebud</p>

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<p>P3t–people didn’t spend time worrying about “social status” of their houses, any more than you’d worry about the “social status” of your particular set of friends. Yeah, there was sort of a general pecking order, but if you were happy in your house then what did it matter in the least? </p>

<p>Really, the ChiOs didn’t sit around and cluck that they were better than the Gamma Phi Betas. For what purpose? You focus on your own friends. If other people were happy on their houses, god bless 'em. </p>

<p>I think many of you outside the system “tier” it way more than we all did on the inside.</p>

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<p>Now I’m confused again. Pizzagirl and Hanna say almost all young women get a bid at some house, and now frazzled2thecore says that some young women get cut from all houses after the first or second round. So, which is it? Of the women who start rush, what percent get cut from all houses? When you say rare, do you mean “once in fifteen years” or “ten to fifteen percent every year”?</p>

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<p>This happy talk about how we can learn from rejection, it builds character and we should move on can get old for those who don’t have good social skills and get rejected a lot. At some point, one wants to say, “OK, I have enough character now! Thanks, but I don’t need any more lessons in rejection!”</p>

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<p>“When you say rare, do you mean “once in fifteen years” or “ten to fifteen percent every year”?”</p>

<p>Totally depends on the school. It would likely be at least a handful every year, though, not one every fifteen years.</p>

760

<p>I don’t know about other schools, but at D1’s school sorority ranking does matter, and it is well known ranking of each house. It does matter to people, and that’s why some girls will only want certain houses. It is no different than college application process or job search. Each house does spend time and effort to move up the rank.</p>