<p>Did you realize that students from other countries are often not required to take the SATs or ACTs? The TOEFL is substituted for those tests? SUNY is one system that appears to do that. New Yorkers may be rejected from their most desired school on the basis of their SAT/ACT tests (yeah yeah the admissions officers contend that students are not rejected on the basis of their scores but that is yet another place the veracity of their contentions should be analyzed for dishonesty) while students from China, Korea, and other countries don't even have to take the SAT/ACTs. Further, admissions counselors at sUNYs have admitted to me that there is often no way to ensure that the applicant from some of these countries is even the one who took the test. SUNYs response appears to be "well we can't control that". Well, yeah, if you can't ensure that students from a particular country took the test don't admit any from that country. Simple. And, yes we should be doing that here too but at least in the US the government is not involved in the deception. So we have tax paying NYers rejected from some SUNYs based on tests that foreign students don't even have to submit. I am proposing that native New Yorkers submit TOEFLS instead of SATs/ACTs to SUNY schools if they score well on them but not well on the SATs/ACTs. Let's see how SUNY handles requests to substitute the TOEFL for the SATs/ACTs. If they won't allow it--that is clear discrimination. What do you think?</p>
<p>That’s ridiculous. The SAT and TOEFL are designed as two completely different tests measuring different things.</p>
<p>Universities have the right to base their admissions criteria on a wide variety of holistic factors, not just scores on one particular standardized test.</p>
<p>Internationals pay a different rate. TOEFL is for non-native. Even kids came to this country when they are young have trouble with SAT test. I’m not sure I see the discrimation. Would you do well in another language that is not your native language?</p>
<p>The point is that students from foreign countries only have to prove they can speak and write in English. They are not forced to take a reasoning test or the ACTs. There are certain ethnic groups in this country and some kids from all ethnic backgrounds who tend to score lower as a group on the SATs and ACTs. If they have good grades, why should they be excluded on the basis of test scores that are not even required for international students. I actually think the state schools that have relied on state and federal taxes should give preference to those who have paid into the system for years and I think it is a crime if there are kids from this country being excluded on the basis of scores not even required of international students. And there should be no students in US colleges who can’t speak English well enough to write, read and speak at a level at least comparable to that of an English speaking US student. Our state and federally funded schools are paid for by the parents and families of students living in the US. Even higher tuition charged to international students does not pay the real cost of educating them. We are subsidizing Chinese education.The day China grants college degrees to US students incapable of speaking their language is the day I’ll view this as a less important issue. Until then, lets focus on students living in the US and let other countries educate their students until the other countries provide reciprocity. I teach at a university and there are students accepted who, 4 years later, can produce papers that are downloaded from the internet and plagiarized by about 50% or more. Seniors!</p>
<p>And Dr Google, yes the tests are designed to measure different things so why are international students not forced to take the reasoning tests? It is discrimination pure and simple.</p>
<p>Where are you getting your facts from? Every university I’ve searched for on CollegeBoard’s College Search has taking the SAT/ACT a requirement for all International students. If anything, American universities put even harder requirements for International students, especially those seeking financial aid/scholarships. As DrGoogle said, the TOEFL is administered for International students in order to make sure that they are at a decent level of English for communication and writing, nothing more. In fact, most universities require Internationals to take both the SAT, and the TOEFL. It isn’t easy for us Internationals. You’re delusional.</p>
<p>For some colleges they are forced to take the SAT and TOEFL. UCLA is an example. Maybe SUNY is different.
[International</a> Students - UCLA Undergraduate Admissions](<a href=“http://www.admissions.ucla.edu/prospect/intl.htm]International”>http://www.admissions.ucla.edu/prospect/intl.htm)
The CSU system in California does not require SAT, just TOEFL.
<a href=“Cal State Apply | CSU”>Cal State Apply | CSU;
So I think it depends on how selective certain colleges are and the requirements varied by colleges.</p>
<p>Take a look at SUNY schools and let me know what you find. Kids from Brooklyn pushed aside to welcome students from countries that would never accept students from the US. Kids from Brooklyn with scores in the 500s losing to students from foreign countries with no SAT scores at all.</p>
<p>The primary purpose of state and federally funded schools in the US is to educated students from the US. Sorry if that does not sound right to you. Are you from another country?Can you imagine colleges in your country giving preference to US students lacking college level language skills in your country? No it is not easy to go to a college in a another country and it shouldn’t be. Slots at state and federally funded schools ought to strongly prefer students living in the US who have either paid into the system for years or will after they graduate. Only truly amazing students from other countries ought to garner slots in federally or state funded colleges in the US.</p>
<p>No international student is allowed to apply to a US college without having taken the SAT’s (or ACT’s). NONE! What is this nonsense?</p>
<p>Sorry that I don’t subscribe to the PC Police academic babble about Globalization. We should not be educating the world. We have a tough time educating out own. We have large groups of kids left in the dust. Our resources should go to those kids living in the US, graduating from US schools, living in out communities and missing out on their dreams.</p>
<p>Perseverance, look at the requirements for entry for international students to SUNY (Binghamton University, Albany, etc) and come back and explain how all need the SATs. NONE!</p>
<p>If your state has budge problem, like California, they will sacrifice kids from US for international money. BTW, I kind of agree with your post #11.</p>
<p>Dr. Google, not only would I not expect to do well in a college in another country with a different language I would not be so presumptuous to think they would accept me because no other country would accept students so poor in the language of the college as the US does. Some won’t accept any from the US regardless of language ability. We have a huge group of high school aged kids cut out of opportunity to go to college. Lets serve them first. And, higher tuition does not make up for the amount already paid into the system by families in the US nor the amount that will be paid into the system by those living in the US after they graduate. Further we subsidize foreign students–is that because we have such a rich generous country that is already meeting the needs of our own kids and scan well afford to give away our resources to those from China and other countries?</p>
<p>For real eye opener-look at Binghamton University. Take a look at what is required (and not) of the international students. Then take a look at the percent of US kids rejected by the school. It is horrific. Globalization my foot! And the higher tuition does not mean that they are not replacing slots for NY kids nor are they paying their way nor should educating kids from other countries be a priority when we have so many NYers shut out.</p>
<p>Try to look at it from a broader perspective and see the purpose of each test. You can also learn how to make paragraphs. That wall of text hurt my eyes.</p>
<p>Sounds like sour grapes from someone who got rejected.</p>
<p>Why so much opprobrium against us internationals?</p>
<p>From a nationalistic point of view the US is seen as an usurper. They steal all the clever kids around the world with their enticing financial aid and scholarships and make them US residents. Your country doesn’t do nothing but capitalizing the other countries’ main source of future prosperity - young intelligible students.</p>
<p>The Ivy League is seen as the holy grail of higher education and everyone is aspiring to be accepted into its universities. We’re not guilty that your students lack the motivation to take studying more seriously which, as a consequence, grants a lot space for the diligent internationals.</p>
<p>We might be a bane but we’re a boon as well. We’re setting the standards for a successful student in your country.Empirical data shows that most of the students who’ve got perfect SAT scores , GPAs and autobiographies aren’t US residents. </p>
<p>So get over it. It’s not about who’s getting selected but how well educated that “who” is. And please don’t blame your education system. It doesn’t matter how you study , it matters how much you want to study. And especially in your jaded country , there are a plethora of sources you can study from. As a comparison , some people in Africa don’t have money to buy pencils.</p>
<p>The OP has a legitimate point. The SUNY system was formed and is funded by the people of the State of New York, to serve the needs of the children/students of New York.</p>
<p>Diversity is a good thing, but like all good things, it can be taken too far. When foreign students don’t have to qualify to the same standards as New Yorkers do, that’s a problem that begs to be the subject of discussion.</p>
<p>Kaizeras, thanks for your anti-American rhetoric. Anti-American sentiments are always so very helpful in these threads. But seriously, what are you thinking with comments like that? Do you think that’s a great way to help other foreign students?.. insult the taxpayers (and their children) who are funding foreign student programs?! Yeah! Brilliant! Keep up the good work. You’ve just proved the point of every back woods redneck xenophobe in America. :-p</p>
<p>You may have gotten a “perfect” SAT/GPA/autobiography, but your comments are about as smart as a bag of hammers.</p>
<p>“The SUNY system was formed and is funded by the people of the State of New York, to serve the needs of the children/students of New York.”</p>
<p>Guess what? One reason it’s so cheap for state residents is that internationals are paying top dollar to subsidize it for them. This is a widely-used strategy (and one necessitated by eroding state budgets for higher ed. in many parts of the country).</p>