<p>A thought just occurred to me. There are hundreds (probably even thousands) of applicants to HYPSM plus other top US universities in the US from foreign countries where English isn't the language spoken who get really good scores on the critical reading and writing section of the SAT. Now, if foreigners can get those high scores on an English section of a test, why can't most Americans?
I mean, it's pathetic when some kid from Russia, China or some other country can pull off a 700+ on CR and W (and I've seen this here on CC) and an American kid who speaks English as his/her native language can't even pull off a 600. </p>
<p>Does this say anything about our quality of education here in America?</p>
<p>Since English is not my first language i will try to provide an insight.</p>
<p>I usually get over 700 on M and W but around 650 in CR. However, i know could do better if i had read more over the last couple of years. The thing is that every country has its bright students and its average students. In America, almost every student takes the SAT. In other countries only a few students take the SAT... these include students who are aspiring to study in the States and who can afford it. The average Korean student has no use taking the SAT. That is why you may see Internationals pulling of some better marks, because they are the cream of their student body in their respective countries. It really depends and its hard to say whether Nationals or International are better at SAT test taking. However, on general, Internationals usually have a tough time with CR.</p>
<p>How would you feel though Shad, if someone who was learning your native language as a second language scored higher than you on a test that measured your ability to read your own language? </p>
<p>How would a native mandarin speaker who has been reading since the 1st grade and has read a bunch of mandarin novels, done their hw in mandarin, etc feel if some american kid scored higher than him on a test that measured reading proficiency in mandarin? He'd probably feel embarrassed. He'd probably be thinking "Why was this foreigner able to master my own language better than me?"</p>
<p>Same thing goes for native speakers of English who get outdone by foreigners who had to learn English as a second (or maybe even third) language. I know that most foreigners may have trouble with CR and W, but still...</p>
<p>Ya know what. Americans, like me, are spoiled to the point of mediocrity. Other countries don't have this privilege and have to work their behinds off to get anywhere. However, the wealthy families in some countries are catching up.</p>
<p>Its sad, but like Shad said - you're comparing yourself to the cream of the crop.
I was born in Russia, but I've been living internationally for 17 years now, and I manage to get 650s on CR and W, and I'm in the top of my class for AP Lit and Lang (scored a 5).
However, I still fail at math.
Personally, I just think that international students can do well on CR and W because they have a higher drive to study English than native speakers. English was an ESL language for me, but now I have duality in Russian and English.
I remember kids teasing me about my accent and about the way I spoke when I was first learning English at 5 years of age. So, after about a year, It all disappeared because I managed, subconsciously, to take in everything that I read in English - the syntax structures, literature patterns, verbatim, etc. And it's going on.</p>
<p>That's my only explanation, without having to resort on the scientific findings that students who speak more than one language are usually just simply smarter than kids who are monolingual.</p>
<p>As an American who teaches SAT to lots of South Koreans, I will also say that part of the difference has to do with cultural differences in how college entrance are perceived. My American students often want to spend about 4 intensive weeks on preparation. My Korean students treat the SAT almost like the Korean college entrance exams...they want to start studying in the fall or winter of sophomore year and spend eighteen months getting ready. Most Koreans take the SAT much much more seriously than Americans, so they see much bigger score increases.</p>
<p>I agree with lotf629 about foreign students taking the tests more seriously. Here, the SAT/ACT is a portion of your application, but colleges also take into account extracurricular activities, GPA, etc. My parents always tell me that in China, students are under a lot of pressure to do well on their college entrance exams because the tests are weighted very heavily. To get into a good college, either you test exceptionally well (near perfect) or you pay a hefty sum. Poor students' parents usually force their kids to study super intense for the exams.</p>
<p>But the students coming to America probably aren't poor. However, just because we grow up with English doesn't mean we know exactly how it functions. The SAT/ACT doesn't test your knowledge about the English that we speak, it tests for correct English. We often use slang or hear things wrong repeatedly and eventually think that the wrong stuff is right. Foreign students are taught the correct English or are taught to the test and thus can more easily recognize mistakes.</p>
<p>That's not necessarily true; not every foreign wants to study here. The thing is the way english language is taught in foreign countries. Everybody outside U.S. who takes english, knows the difference between "your" and "you're." How many times you've seen that mistake here? Plenty.</p>
<p>If people here would start watching TV/movies with captions on, maybe they'd do better.</p>
<p>1) The international students who apply to HYPSM are usually the top of their cohorts anyway, so getting 800s isn't something too surprising. So comparing them to Americans of a different percentile isn't appropriate.
2) International students tend to engage in a practice called hardcore cramming. heh.
3) Internationals who apply to HYPSM really have to be darn good because admissions for internationals are way more selective.</p>
<p>It is like everyone said. the best and brightest are the ones taking it and applying.
many also go to international schools....taught in english.
there are very large populations of these countries that don't even speak english. so it is an unfair comparison.
and just because you have spoken english all your life doesn't mean you are good at critically reading and analyzing a passage like you have to do on the sat.</p>
<p>The fact that u r talking about HYPMS says a lot. competitions within the international applicant pool is greater than the domestic one. They know that they need to do even better than some of the domestic applicants in order to be in the running. Additionally, America doesn't place as strong of an emphasis on education as other countries (e.g. Russia, Japan, and China). I would know, I was learning America's 6th grade math when i was still a 3rd grader in China. The school system is so strict in China, that students go to school from 7:30 to 4:30. This rigorous environment pushes many international students as well as immigrants to attempt to catch up with other native english speakers. Sometimes, catching up means excelling.</p>
<p>It doesn't say anything about our intelligence, but it says EVERYTHING about our education system.....However, I wouldn't trade what we've got now for the horrible prison of, for instance, Korean education/academic slavery haha</p>
<p>Hippo you're a stupid <strong><em>, just because somebody's a native English speaker doesn't mean that he'll use words like "nuance" and "olfactory," if the test did have questions based on the dialect of today's kids everybody would get </em></strong>ing 800's, but because they can't give out 800's like herpes they use harder words like "nuance" and "olfactory." When's the last time you used "nuance" or "olfactory" in a sentence? If you even remember one instance you're a god damned **. </p>
<p>Now let me get back to the point of my post, Asians and Indians are born smarter than whites Hispanics and blacks, if you don't think that's true you're a blinded ****.</p>
<p>not asians (which includes indians---look it up) arent born smarter. u just see the smarter ones cuz theyre parents were the best in their respective countries and were able to migrate to america</p>
<p>unfortunately in america there are pricks like clearpenthouse</p>