<p>That is a near quote from my S. He had options but each one required something of him. He made a choice that HE helped make happen. He got the scholarship. He worked to bring money to the table. While his Mom and I facilitated, we did it on our individual terms, so he had to make choices rather than have it handed to him just because he wanted it.</p>
<p>I told him that he has accomplished a lot already. His triumphs are his, not ours.</p>
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<p>That much is clear. Lucky for our S neither his Mom or I have ever seen it that way when one of us declined to participate financially in something related to our S that the other one wanted to have happen. I guess it is why we are friends, as well as EXes, and our S has mentioned that he never has felt we warred with each other using our love of him as a weapon.</p>
<p>07 DAD, you keep skirting my question – do you think it fair for mom and dad to each pay 1/2 when one has vastly more income/assets? Or to insist that the other pay as much?</p>
<p>I also never expected my parents to put me thru college…they didn’t have the resources, so I went to a City University—very inexpensive. and when I decided to go to grad school I took out loans, and never looked back. Very happy with my degrees and what they’ve enabled me to do professionally. </p>
<p>My ex and I put in the divorce decree that we would put our kids thru college–according to our ability to pay. (in NJ where I put together the separation agreement this was fairly common, however in Florida where divorce was finalized not so much.) I knew there could be a challenge once the time came.</p>
<p>Our kids knew that there were limits to the resources, and they’ve respected that, we’ve worked with that openly and successfully. My son (college fresh) opted for a full ride at a private LAC, knowing I would put the budgeted college funds towards graduate school expenses. I felt the college $ budgeted for him should go to his education, not become my $. His father has kind of let himself off the hook as there are no significant college expenses for our son so he has no expense. </p>
<p>Our d (senior HS) chose to stay in state,(fairly inexpensive) and has received scholarships that will cover tuition and about half of room and board. I felt again that we should pay for her college expenses, (not let ourselves off the hook bc she earned scholarships. I discussed w her dad (actually done thru email as that is the best way to problem solve for us) and he agreed to pay portion of expenses, as I will. (I’m actually paying 2/3 he’ll pay 1/3) it is the best it could be, and not worth any further debating. </p>
<p>actually find it helpful to realize that married couples can also have differences about this issue and its not just divorced parents who have this to deal with. </p>
<p>Kayf–just wondering–why you’re so stuck on stating that the 50/50 solution is unfair, when it is clear from your posts that you are paying 0, thus you did not have to pay 50%.why not acknowledge that in your case, your child (and you) benefited from their father paying according to what he was able to pay. in the end, it seems to have worked out, so why not see it that way?</p>
<p>But effectively you are telling son – if you make more than mom – mom wont pay as much as I will, so you cant go where you want – if this isnt manipulative, I dont know what is. It is worse than badmouthing, and I think you know it. </p>
<p>Fortunately for you, you live in a state where you can get away with it. Fortunately for me, I don’t.</p>
<p>My Ex and I have always agreed that we were not put on this earth to assure that our S got everything he wanted. I have never heard my S indicate that he evaluates our respective love for him based on whether we do what he wants. When he hits a roadblock he deals with it. I’ve seen him do it. His Mom and I are proud that he does so and NEVER tried to play us against each other (cause it wouldn’t work).</p>
<p>Do YOU think that if your Ex doesn’t pay for what you want for your S he is manipulating someone?</p>
<p>Do YOU think that if your Ex doesn’t pay for what your young adult S wants he is manipulating someone?</p>
<p>kayf–I really do understand the point you are trying to make. I do. I understand that you are saying that so often women are left in such a horrible financial position after a long-term marriage and that they get no support from the ex-spouse. And, absolutely, this DOES happen. I have seen this myself on many occaisons. You are right! Dad07, however really seems to be a responsible father, and so…it dilutes your point, in a way, to keep arguing with HIM about this. But, I do “get” what you are saying.</p>
<p>Have you ever considered becoming an advocate for women and children in this situation or going to law school and pursuing this as a way to address these very real inequities? You seem very passionate about it and you’d make an excellent counselor in a case like the hypothetical you have presented.</p>
<p>all the best to you. It really IS important to ask these questions in the wider scope of the realities we see in the world day-to-day.</p>
<p>kay, what is curious about a kid not seeing that mom keeping 100% of CHILD SUPPORT when the CHILD is not getting the benefit of it is a total perversion of the system? Yes, my kids know (they’re smart enough to figure out) that I spend more than double the amount of their dad’s support on them for their daily expenses, activity fees, and college fund. We had kids by mutual consent. We support them in the same way, not equally, but mutually as adults. I’m the custodial parent and make all the decisions about how money is spent - housing, groceries, activities, vacations, etc. Why would I expect my ex to pay more than he reasonably can when he gets no vote?</p>
<p>If the dad is unable to pay both room and board - the kid’s actual living expenses - and this crazy child support til 19 for a kid who doesn’t live there, I still say follow the law and let mom take the fall. She’s not being rational or fair and obviously has done a poor job planning for this.</p>
<p>Poetgirl, I don’t think either of us know enough about 07DAD to say anything. It could be he is from a state where support is not mandated, and his X has decided to make the best of it. He could be making 10 times what his X makes, and we wouldnt know. </p>
<p>SK8rmom, I was asking you a general question, in response to kids seeing what is fair – </p>
<p>I would rather discuss in general, as I dont think I know enough OPs situation to opine. As to following the law - again, I dont know enough about OPs situation, which is why I, along with many others, suggested her SO see a lawyer, not necessarily to start any litigation, but to understand groundrules.</p>
<p>As a non-divorced person, let me state that the difference I see here is that when my spouse and I disagree over paying for something for our kids, it’s a fight between the two of us. Period. The kids are not privy to the negotiations that go on between us, nor do they realize how much horsetrading we’ve had to do to keep peace in the family. </p>
<p>As far as they’re concerned, mom and dad had the same attitudes over things like summer jobs in HS (we’re for it); educational debt (good idea if/when you’ve exhausted other options and it makes sense career wise); paying for frat fees or entertainment expenses in college ( we didn’t do it); subsidizing a car for teenagers or young adults (didn’t do it) etc. Spouse and I were not on the same page for a single one of these things-- but the kids didn’t know it, and frankly, we didn’t want a situation where they knew that Mom would pay the 2K for the car insurance but dad wouldn’t, or that dad would pay the $250 frat initiation fee but Mom wouldn’t.</p>
<p>So it would be naive to think that divorced parents would be on the same page regarding college finances, particularly since there are frequently new spouses and children to add to the mix.</p>
<p>But I think it’s unfair to put the kids in the position of having to read the tea leaves to figure out which parent wants to finance which part of his/her life.</p>
<p>Blossom, I think there are other differences, one being in an intact family, mom and dad have pretty close to the same lifestyle, and one doesnt have to starve to come up with his/her 50% – if someone like 07DAD insists. </p>
<p>I am not certain what you mean by saying a kid would have to read tea leaves – my guess is 07DAD makes it pretty clear, or would, that he is willing to pay X, but mom wouldnt.</p>
<p>I think it’s tragic and criminal for either parent to be left to starve… whether it’s to pay college tuition or to pay for health insurance or whatever was not spelled out in the divorce decree.</p>
<p>But it’s not the kids fault if Mom is naive or not knowledgeable about money. Anyone can learn- some choose not to. There’s a reason why real estate lawyers describe distress sales of homes owned by divorced moms as “marital mausoleums”- Mom gets caught up in keeping the house, dad keeps the real assets (retirement plans, stocks, other investments) and after a couple of years of mom learning how much it costs to heat, insure, and pay taxes on the house, she reluctantly puts it up for sale (in much sadder shape than it was a couple of years before the deferred maintenance.) </p>
<p>My divorced neighbor is selling her house-- and she’s angry at the world for not telling her how high property taxes are. Hello? Where you been your whole adulthood? ex H rents a small condo and has cut back his lifestyle significantly to afford his child support. mom lives like there’s no tomorrow and is mad at how she’s been “taken to the cleaners”.</p>
<p>So much sympathy for the kids. Much sympathy for a system that allows women to impoverish themselves. Less sympathy for people who spend half their adulthoods thinking that someone else is going to worry about taxes and bills and health insurance and then one day the dream is over and reality hits.</p>
<p>Kayf–I believe you stated earlier, “fyi, my X pays 100% of my Ds college, plus provides a car”. </p>
<p>if this is accurate, why are you so bent on saying sharing college costs shouldn’t be 50/50.</p>
<p>I am paying more than my kids’ dad, partly bc I earn a little more, and partly bc I choose to. I typically feel strongly, that we should contribute according to our ability and am walking the walk.</p>
<p>just confused what exactly you are so mad about?</p>
<p>I am not mad, I am concerned about the children who don’t get the education that there dad could pay for, and I am concerned about the women who end up poor in retirement. Of people over 65, women are much more likely than men to be poor. And even if I didn not have genuine concern about these people, I would point out that our society pays to help many of them.</p>
<p>Today I recieved a mailing to help our local school foundation, which helps kids get to college. Living in a high cost area, many kids do not qualify for the public programs for college application fee waivers, sat fee waivers, etc. How many are children of divorce? </p>
<p>Again to all – if you think that parents should pay 50/50 regardless of facts, then why would you support need based finaid.</p>
<p>07DAD, no and no – but that may be because in my state will enforce reasonable standards and they are in my divorce/CS agreement – and I think we can all draw our conclusions from your “shouting” as to whether you are a bully.</p>
<p>Sounds to me like kayf is using gender politics to make her point. Experience has taught me to always be suspicious when someone takes this low road. </p>
<p>I’m surprised no one has mention the need for a child of divorce to strive hard to keep god relations with the non custodial parent. Allot of these situations can be avoided if they are encouraged to do so. Sadly, I’ve seen many instances where they were manipulated into doing exactly the opposite.</p>
<p>Gee, I thought I made it clear that this could also happen to men, but if I didnt, I do. Just becuase it is more likely to happen to women doesnt mean it should be dismissed by calling it gender politics. </p>
<p>Children have to “strive” for good relationsh with non-custodial parent? I think the ball is in the parents court – but maybe just disagreement on word choice. All of these situations can be avoided – maybe by such striving – I have to disagreee. As to “many” situations where children were manipulated into poor relations with non-custodial parent – I dont know any, but most of the kids I know are on speaking terms with other parent and of an age where they kind of know what is going on.</p>
<p>just out of curiosity kayf, since we’re talking about fairness, why do you pay nothing toward your child’s college expenses? you said your ex pays 100% and supplies a car.</p>