Do parenting attitudes/approaches impact student motivation/ambition?

Parents Forum
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<p>I'm trying to get my mind off nailbiting while we wait for ED notification...</p>

<p>Do you think anything you did as a parent contributed/detracted from your child's attitude toward academic ambitions? </p>

<p>This question could be controversial because not everyone necessarily applauds the kind of single-minded focus on 'name-brand' universities that is seen on this board, so please don't interpret it as a barb in any way. Just curiosity, and for the most part, admiration of the young people I see posting here.</p>

<p>Dizzymom</p>

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<p>What an interesting question! I think a lot of things contributed to the academic ambitions of my kids (D soph at Rice, S hs junior at boarding school). My husband and I used a lot of financial resources to make sure the kids had the best possible education. Our public schools are very poor, so the kids went to private school and then boarding school. My husband has a PhD from large state university and my law degree is from a top 3 school (many years ago.....). Due to the personality traits that the kids inherited, we didn't have to do much to encourage good academic performance. If anything, we tried to tone things down since the schools seem to get outrageously competitive. We wanted out kids to have a life, and if that meant not attending an Ivy, that was fine. Turns out D wouldn't have touched an Ivy, but S has his sights on a few (hopefully, as a recruited athlete). Since I have discovered this board, I have become obsessed, and my new goal is to keep my obsessing AWAY from my son, who, fortunately, is tucked away in NJ at boarding school. I just want to make it clear to him that there is little room for error in the process- it will take a combination of top grades, top SATs, essays, recs etc. All his error occurred in 10th grade when he got to depart from a school...... I also want to make sure that he understands that there are LOTS of great schools and that he will wind up somewhere perfect for him. When we went through this process with D, I realized that the honors programs at the state universities were awesome and that her options were not limited to LACs. My son's boarding school strongly believes that the kids should be allowed to enjoy their high school experience and not be tortured with college admission issues until February junior year at the earliest. I'm wondering how I got through the process with my D with so little stressing. Karen</p>

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<p>As a student(I'm not sure I shoud be answering this, but I will regardless), I feel that my parents have provided me with the opportunities to do great things but never pushed me enough. </p>

<p>My father graduated from a top ranked university and later went on to get a doctorate but was always the one who did just enough to get by and was known for challenging the standards/rules. He did what he did for no one else and was looked at like a slacker. My mother on the other hand was valedictorian in high school and #3 in college. She strived to be better then everyone else but didn't really think about what was right for her. </p>

<p>So, I've been raised by two completely polar personalities and have had to decide where I stand in the two extremes. When I went into high school I had the option of going to boarding school, continuing with homeschooling, private, or a public school... Naturally(for our family) my parents had very different viewpoints on this subject and I decided that I wanted to be <em>normal</em> and go to public school. Now as I'm looking at colleges I'm facing the same thing: I have all the options in the world but no real parental influence. My parents did not even know where I was applying until literally half of my applications were finnished and mailed. I visited colleges over the summer with friends and my parents weren't really concerned as they thought it would be better for me to work things out on my own. It's certainly not bad parenting just a different approach. I was never punnished as a child just told that what I did was immoral/wrong. There was no yelling at me just calm conversations. I knew what my parents expected of me yet it was never really written out... kind of an unwritten pride/integrity factor that I was never brave enough to challenge. </p>

<p>Now, as a teen with more freedom then most kids I know, I have the same morals. I have pre written notes sitting on the fridge if I don't want to go to school one day... I have a credit card with a limit I could never approach... I just got a new car which I am always asked "hey, wanna race?!?!"... ALTHOUGH my parents never told me not to do things, I know what is expected and what they would be disappointed with. Alot of my friends don't understand this and wonder why I don't go <em>wild</em> with my card and why I don't drive recklessly when the cops aren't around... its a matter of morals. Academic performance falls under one of the unwritten things that is expected... if I EVER came home with a C on my report card without a great excuse, there would be mutual disappointment. </p>

<p>... yep, that's my life.</p>

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<p>Interesting, my son and I were just discussing this last night while stressing about college applications and the like. He felt that I should have pushed him more earlier on - to get all A's rather than A's and B's. Of course, no one's a perfect parent. If I had pushed, his grades might or might not be better, and there might (or might not) be a lot of resentment about it.</p>

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<p>Oh heavens, yes (and their grandparents, too). We didn't set out to do it (no master life plan here) and it would be interesting to think about what we might have done different if we had realized how we were going to affect them at the time, but from setting expectations to setting examples and helping them when they needed it, it's easy to see how we've influenced them.</p>

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<p>Anovice -- yes, you should reply, and let other students know that their opinions are welcome, too -- after all, you are half of the parent/child equation!</p>

<p>It's so interesting that in the era where all we hear about is 'pushy parents' that there is another side of that coin as well.</p>

<p>Dizzymom and Dizzyhusband both came from homes where our own parents were present but not active in guiding us toward achieving what we think might have been our potential. Thus, as parents tend to, we swung the pendulum the other direction, hopefully with moderation.</p>

<p>We never wanted to micro-manage (although they may think otherwise!) but we've always reminded our children to 'keep your options open', as in, don't blow it because when you're 15 you think waiting tables and going to junior college sounds glamorous. </p>

<p>Our other conscious determination was to try to keep the kids active in sports and/or music, initially with the aim of keeping them too tired to get in trouble (selfish, I know) but finding out later on that these things can reap benefits beyond their intrinsic value. </p>

<p>Now that my kids are in high school, I see them as being far more self and peer-motivated than guided by anything I say or do. I honestly don't know how much impact we as parents have had on them.</p>

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<p>I don't remember who said that, but my husband and I were both slackers relative to our abilities when we were young, and regretted it in retrospect. When our daughter was in 9th grade, and came home with a bunch of B's and a C+, we weren't happy. She argued that she was getting above average grades in all honors courses in a tough private school, which was true. But she was coasting, as Mom and Dad had done. The most important thing we did as parents was to get her to appreciate her own intellectual potential--and that is not easy, given all the distractions of adolescence. Somehow, she internalized our demands that she do better. I feel lucky, and I don't know any specific recipe for success. We just kept insisting, and somehow she listened. It helps if the student is in an environment where being a top student is a widely and highly respected thing. The particular Ethos of the school can be helpful--at her school, the top students were as respected as the top athletes (and there was plenty of overlap).</p>

<p>Edit: Having just seen DizzyMom's post above, I would totally agree with everything she said. Also, the "demanding" regimen can result in some really positive self-motivation as they mature. A kid who develops self-discipline by junior year in high school is the one who will have a great senior year and transition smoothly into a demanding college regimen.</p>

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<p>yes to the OP.</p>

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<p>We probably had a very positive effect in their earlier, formative years. I feel the effect sort of begins to lessen as they enter high school and the influence of peers increases. A college education was emphasized early on as was the importance of trying your hardest to do well. I feel that my influence has lessened a great deal this year as my senior is making most of her choices regarding school, classes and work on her own. But the mold was set early on and she has always known she would try for good grades and attend college after graduation. That's what was emphasized and expected in this family.</p>

<p>My poor kids have to listen to my "The better you do now, the more options you have open later" speech. That's sort of been the rule around our house.</p>

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<p>That is a very good question. I think much of it has to do with the intrinsic personality of each child. I believe on some level we raised all three of our kids pretty much with the same values. But as a good adolescent psychiatrist friend said to us after spending this past Thanksgiving with our family...three children, two boys 28 and 25 years, and one girl 18 years...put them all together and they make one perfect child as they all pretty much seems to complement each other! Each individually she recognizes as having a character flaw!!! (some friend, eh?) While one is quiet and cerebral, the other is outgoing and demonstrative. The other is a combination of the two differing personalities. They do not argue, fight, compete with each other, put down each others college choices....one went to Harvard, one to PENN and the other to CMU...and have three different career aspirations. One is a perfectionist who likes to get things done on time and very much takes his time while the other procrastinates for days on end wondering whether it WILL be done perfectly while the other claims you need to just "Do it! for G-d's sake!" whether it be perfect or not so as to move on. Is it because they were all raised in the same household and very much attuned to each others quirks and idiosyncracies??? or were they born that way. I believe in the latter....I believe on some level we lucked out as parents.....we didn't bear any "Jack the Ripper-type serial killers," nor will we have any offspring that will go on to change the world so to speak in a global and positive sense. They are just very nice human beings who respect each other and those around them and wouldn't harm a fly..though I am not so sure about my daughter. Sometimes I think she breaks all these guys hearts with whom she just wants to be "friends" while they have something else on their minds!! LOL! Anyway..so much about the theory that we are sometimes masters of their destiny by our parenting strategies and techniques. I am a firm believer that there is the impact of nature far above nurture in determining the paths our children will take.</p>

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<p>Thanks for posting such a fascinating question--it’s for discussions like these that I keep coming back to CC. </p>

<p>My answer would be that sometimes it matters more than others; it depends on the mix of parent and child. Actually, if our older daughter were an only child, I’d say “Yes” in a heartbeat: My husband and I met at any Ivy League college, and our first child followed in our footsteps; she was driven and competitive from nursery school on, and academics always mattered intensely to her. It would be easy to conclude that we passed our values along to her in myriad ways—reading to her and talking about issues with her and with each other, constantly reinforcing our respect for education and the life of the mind. </p>

<p>But we have another daughter, four years younger, who sees everything differently: She’s smart but laid-back and social, and regards school as a place to meet her friends and do well enough to get by. Frankly, she thinks the rest of us are nerds (and she may have a point). </p>

<p>So how much have our attitudes influenced our kids’ academic ambitions? The more I see the differences between our daughters, the less I think it has to do with us and the more with intrinsic qualities of their own.</p>

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<p>I think I agree with you. Depite having a mom who worried too much, my son is laid back. Nature does have something to do with it. But I don't see anything wrong with parent's pushing a little.</p>

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<p>I agree too. It's like different approaches in coaching. You don't have to be a Bear Bryant, but a little pushing from the perspective of adulthood and experience can be important.</p>

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<p>So often we observe that two kids were raised by the same parents in the same home, so how could they turn out so differently.</p>

<p>We forget the nuances of birth order, of our own shifts in parenting as experience tempers us, of the quickening pace of life with more personalities in the house, and oh, that one we'd like to ignore -- age. All these things change us as parents, and I truly believe that my children had very different childhoods, which would explain many of their differences.</p>

<p>If anything, my younger one is more autonomously focused and driven, all in a good way, while the older one internalized more of the parental 'my...first...born...will...rock' mentality, which some days I'd like to go back and undo.</p>

<p>As for the 'slacker' kids -- who's to say they won't be bossing around our driven-and-burned-out progeny in twenty years? It's a long, long race and there are lots of ways to win.</p>

<p>helicoptermom -- glad you like the topic -- I always enjoy pondering these things with like-minded parents and cc is a treasure trove of such people.</p>

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<p>(another student opinion)</p>

<p>As much as I might not like to admit it, I think that my parents have had at least some impact, although it was probably more while I was younger, especially with regards to schooling. Education has always been "number one" in our family, and as a high school senior, I can definitely understand where my parents have been coming from all these years. The most influential thing they've probably helped to foster is my voracious reading hobby (which, unfortunately, has gradually weakened over the past few years from lack of time) and introduce me to public radio. I'm a NYT junkie, and the local librarians make jokes about having to buy me a cart to take books home in when I do get over to the library. Seriously, a lifelong passion for, or even appreciation of, words will really serve them well.</p>

<p>However, that is not to say that we share the same educational philosophy -- they are understandably very concerned with grades, while I would rather struggle with material and learn it (and get a B or B+) than not have to work and pull straight As. A prime example of this was my AP Euro class as a sophomore, which was the first time I was truly challenged by a course. My grades first quarter weren't exactly stellar, but once I developed an appreciation for the topic and how to approach the material, the change was amazing. I think it's tough for them to accept that though, because they are not privy to daily life at school and don't want to see their daughter fail at something. Truly though, that's the best way for me to learn something, so that sometimes causes tension, especially with college applications looming.</p>

<p>Other than grades, my parents are not really involved in my education, but that by my choice. If I need help with something or am struggling they're always willing to help, but they have enough faith in me to pretty much do my own thing. Plus, they don't know a lot about most of the subjects I'm taking, so if I do ask for help it doesn't always really pan out, but that's why I have resources in my teachers and friends. I'm always stunned to hear about kids letting their parents read every essay before they hand it in or something like that, especially at the collegaite; maybe it's just more common than I imagine. The sheer volume of paper that I use for essays every week would probably scare them off, and I'm not even taking a seminar-based course this year where 20+ page papers a week were the norm. Most of the time they do not know when I have upcoming tests or activities, but that's been fairly consistent since sixth grade and has never really presented a problem.</p>

<p>All the qualms here about SAT preparation never occurred at my house, although I have a feeling they might for my younger brother. My dad asked me once if I felt it necessary to take a course or review a bit before the exam, but I truly didn't feel it was. No 10 Reals, no vocabulary flash cards, no cramming -- and what was probably the most beneficial, NO STRESS! Same applied for SAT2 exams, except to make sure that I understood in what format the test would be. Honestly, I don't think the lack of prep made much of a difference, if any at all, and it certainly left us a lot saner than some of the horror stories I've heard at school.</p>

<p>That independence they grant me spills over into EC and social life too, but I suppose that stems from having a driver's license and being a good kid. No curfew as long as I tell them when I'll be home, I get myself to and from two jobs, numerous ECs, and an internship, do a lot of our grocery shopping and cooking, etc.</p>

<p>I too wonder about the intrinsic qualities which have made me turn out like this, and what is actually an effect of how my parents raised me, but I don't think there's really much of a clear explanation for that.</p>

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<p>Interesting question......I think how our parents raised us has to have a huge impact on our motivation .......either positively or negatively......whether they are trying to directly exert influence or not......I see it in my own upbringing....and now I see it as my kids are growing up....and also notice differences in their friends' families.....the way they push ( or don't push) their kids.....Our kids are in private school as the schools here are a joke.....they're allowed one sport per season.....(still in middle school).....and have 2-3 hours of homework nightly.....My husband and I feel strongly that our kids need to get out of our state for their education....and to do that will take alot of hard work.....At the same time, we don't want them to be "grade grubbers"....and we do wonder about the burnout factor.....hearing lots of stories here of kids who're making it "up north" to the Ivies and then come crawling back after a nervous breakdown.....!We're not sure how much to push.....just have to play it by ear , I guess.....</p>

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<p>i think parents can definately influence their kids as far as their motivation goes.. for example, neither of my parents went to college.. actually, nobody in my family has ever gone to college before (that's including aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents, parents aunts and uncles and cousins...) so my parents wer ejust like.. do what you want to do, but we would like for you to go to college.. they're doing the same thing with my little sister, and she apparently mentioned "teaching".. so i guess we'll see what she decides to do :)</p>

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<p>I was motivated out of spite and contempt towards them :)</p>

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<p>Okay, Mattistotle, I'll bite...</p>

<p>I'm sorry to hear that spite and contempt toward your parents are what you think have shaped you. You say elsewhere that your parents plan to take out a mortgage to help finance your schooling -- doesn't sound like they're all bad, but obviously there is more to this story. </p>

<p>At least it sounds as if you had a grandfather whose influence was positive? That counts for alot.</p>

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<p>Academic expectations were always high but there was none of this "You have to get straight A's" pressure. And she was always expected to have one committed after-school activity...no problem, since she started ballet at age 5 and never wanted to change.</p>

<p>One thing I remember that my D [mostly] lovingly told me during her senior year in HS, "Dad, you're pretty demanding for a parent but if were Jewish you'd be normal and if we were Asian you'd be easy." Interesting social antennae that one has. She noted something similar in her junior year pre-calc/calculus class: "It's the Asians, the Jews, and me and JaneDoe."</p>

<p>I read enough on the old CC board for a couple of years to conclude that this pattern was not unique to <em>her</em> public HS. Of private schools, I don't have enough direct experience.</p>

<p>I identify with Driver's posts. And this year, off at college, D thanked me for <em>everything</em> [emphasis hers] I had done to help get her there. Wrote it in a card, no less. I'm saving it. Wherever I put it.</p>