Do Prep Schools Hurt Or Help College Chances?

<p>grinzin, as so many families here on CC are trying to find a good “fit” for their kids, do you mind sharing your honest thoughts on which school you’d choose for your son if you could re-do it now knowing what you know now and having the options as you did the first time around? I think that’d be very helpful.</p>

<p>In hindsight, it’s subtle stuff, because all schools talk about support and community for students. S’s school is fiercely competitive/sink or swim. I would look very closely at the work ethos/happiness of the students --is there rampant cheating; do kids want to work on lab reports together or alone? will your kid thrive in that environment? I would also dig into closely what the school means by support systems for students. Are the proactive about it–for example, with big brothers/spirit/someone charged with your kid? In our case, the support is there passively, but we had to kick and scream and tell them to pay attention to S, otherwise he’s not been on anyone’s radar and is pretty much left alone. Really ask who is there for you S/D to notice when they are having a bad day AND when they deserve a pat on the back? What things do they do as a school to foster bonding among the community? We found that while teachers, advisors and dorm parents (even prefects) all know my S by face, but no one is really paying attention to his good and bad days. I’ve concluded it is somewhat institutional in his school. And while that works for some kids (those who could thrive in the Gulag), and others are fortunate to find a coach or teacher with whom they develop a special relationship, many others are really left to sink or swim (largely) alone . . . in fairly treacherous waters for a teenager. IMO, most teens still needs someone to tell them when they are doing okay and making good decisions, not just have adults there when they trip up (because BS is very, very good at that).</p>

<p>@grinzing</p>

<p>this is a great concern of mine re: the entire boarding school experience. DH was first to pick up on this during tours/interviews. He probably asked a few perhaps PiC questions about boarding life – mind you this was before we had ever heard the term “triple threat” . He just wondered how someone who is a coach, teacher and dorm parent could do it all for so many adolescents.</p>

<p>we are worried about this as we have no background in bs and a good dear friend (who is a retired former school psychologist) who thinks it is not a good thing for a 14 year old to be without day to day parental support.</p>

<p>i hope things work out for your c.</p>

<p>One other thought–if you read about teenage development, one thing teens greatly need is to feel like they belong to something. So ironically I think our experience is most apt to the well rounded kids. My S is a strong student (but not a superstar in this environ), a decent 2 sport athlete (but again, not a star), likes photography (but is not super artsy), and gets along with lots of different kids. If he were less balanced and identified more with one thing–a hockey player or just a singer–he’d probably have a coach or adult with whom he got closer or who took an interest in him. Hasn’t happened–and even the most diligent advisor at the school (we switched), doesn’t always have time for him and has to be reminded to check. It’s the kids who are interested in many things (you think–that’s the kid who should benefit most from BS–aha!) whom I believe are most at risk for getting lost. And, flowers–we found NOTHING can substitute for parental support.</p>

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<p>Honestly - I think that’s the “it” factor I was looking for. The reason why one specific school clicked with me more than any other school we looked at during the interviews. It started with noticing how students and faculty members greeted each other in the hallway. As we sat in a reception area, the faculty were joking with each other as they got coffee. The guide telling us that if our D missed her pets, she could just find a faculty member and ask to play with their pet. Subtle things. And although my daughter is not an art major, the art department was part of the tour. I remembered marveling at the fact that this wonderful woman with a flamboyant scarf threw up her hands in greeting, hugged my daughter, then asked her all sorts of questions about what her travels had been like. Then took her aside and coached her on how to keep it all straight.</p>

<p>So the reality? When my daughter had a bad day early on (adjustments, self doubt and feelings of disappointing a teacher about a missed meeting) she was spotted by the hockey coach who then took her aside and helped her get everything straightened out. We got phone calls from both the faculty member AND the advisor letting us know what happened and that she was okay. Unbeknownst to them, we already knew because she had called for advice. Still - we were impressed that they were being proactive. </p>

<p>And then we sent a text to cheer her up and we joked about how the bad weather had followed us to the second hot air balloon launch in two months (different states) we got a photo of my D and her advisor on our cell that said “Sunny here in Watertown!” It was a picture of them at the advisor’s house, sitting on the patio grinning from ear to ear. </p>

<p>So yes - thank you. That was the elusive quality I was looking for. What defines the other part of “fit.”</p>

<p>I remember when my husband said that he felt a bit isolated and ignored by some of the rich parents at revisit day. My daughter said they both stuck out like “where’s Waldo” without the striped shirt and cane. What struck him most (besides the fun he’d had in Spanish class) was that a faculty member proactively came up to him and said “You look like you could use someone to talk to.” After we enrolled, we went for a visit and one of the deans noticed that he was still sad about her being there and not at home and said “We’ll take care of your little girl. Here’s my number. Call whenever you’re worried.”</p>

<p>That was it. He was sold. I was sold. </p>

<p>And every visit to the campus reinforces that. We just got back from parent weekend and when we walked into the main lobby to get our name badges, several students said “Oh - you’re D’s parents!” At her school EVERY teacher knows every child. What they’re eating, how they’re doing, relationships with roommates, etc. It’s part of the culture and there are meetings to make sure that continues.</p>

<p>Just standing in the hallway and having a teacher spot us and change direction to come tell us what’s going on with our daughter. Being hugged by students after we made a run to Chipotles on the way from Hartford airport (orders arrived by cell phone text once one student heard we were going since there are only two in the entire state - none close.)</p>

<p>Find the school that loves your student as much as you do. That vibe at interviews - if repeated during a revisit - is the best clue ever.</p>

<p>“I think especially helpful qualities for a BS student is a tough skin and a good sense of self.”</p>

<p>Nicely put, Nema, and I think you’re right, thought that may be as true for survival in ps.</p>

<p>I’ve been a real promoter in past posts of the many positives of the adviser-student relationship. However, after talking to other bs parents one-on-one and reading stories like grinzing’s, I’m starting to think that my son may have just lucked out and ended up with a particularly good (older, experience, kids out of the house) adviser and a good (serious student, nice kids, semi-geeky, semi-athletic) dorm. </p>

<p>Which makes me wonder, if I were going to do it again, as a parent, how could I ensure that kid #2 had the same positive experiences as kid #1. Couldn’t, of course, but still I think I’d find whoever is in charge of housing at my kid’s school and make some very specific requests about adviser/dorm placement. </p>

<p>I’d go for a dorm like my kid’s–maybe one of the worst dorms on campus physically (so it doesn’t attract the A-list crew at all!) but with a long-standing reputation for having “good guys” in it–the hard working, stay out of trouble type kids, the ones who do athletics, but not necessarily high profile athletics, etc., who are involved in lots of activities, who tend to form study groups in the common area, who help one another out. Maybe I’d nose around a little first, talk to faculty, students, and other parents with kids already at the school to get a sense of this, rather than expect the Housing Director to know all this. It surprises me how easy this kind of information is to gather, once you start asking specific questions.</p>

<p>I might ask for an adviser who tends to be more hands-on with his advisees–not necessarily by scheduling lots of meetings, but just more apt to keep tabs on his advisees and to stay in touch with parents. Or I’d just describe my kid specifically–especially stuff like “he tends to be pretty stoic and not express his feelings” or “he’s a nice kid and easy to overlook because he doesn’t like to stick out in a crowd” and ask for someone who would meet his/her needs. </p>

<p>Then I’d sit back and cross my fingers! Just wondering though, if being proactive from the beginning might leave less up to chance and better ensure a good dorm/adviser/student fit which–for my kid at least–has been so critical to his happiness at school.</p>

<p>grinzin, somewhere I’ve picked up that it’s a relatively small school that your S is at, and what you described sounds to me like common characteristics to most top schools. As personally I am not familiar with “lower tiered” schools (for lack of a better term), I can’t say those characteristics apply to all BS, but from what I’ve gathered I think the basic way of operation of all BS is similar, and I doubt the “subtle stuff” could change a 14/15 year old boarding student’s experience significantly. </p>

<p>The lesson here is that when we talk about “fit”, the most important consideration should be evaluating whether your kid is fit for a boarding school. Many many are not. Take the step of applying to BS very cautiously. It would be hard to talk your kid (or yourself for that matter) out of it once you have the acceptances sometimes with generous scholarships in your hands.</p>

<p>How are the dorm placements done, do they bring together people with similar interests or do they mix and match musicians, geeks, athletes?</p>

<p>DAndrew–you are correct and what I’ve described is probably common to top BSs. I also agree that parents should be very cautious and critical to assess if this environment is right. However, in our case, S seemed like a very good fit for BS–independent, confident, strong in academics and time management, social, and relatively mature. Lots of factors could have gone differently, but didn’t-- I’m afraid I don’t have a very good answer.</p>

<p>I’m a curmudgeon and say that it’s not true that all BS are the same. It’s just not. There are some factors that make all BS inappropriate for some students, but it’s a disservice for some parents to say that “subtle” factors don’t make the difference. If that were true we’d stop talking about “fit” and we’d stop encouraging parents and students to tour the schools beforehand.</p>

<p>I remember when my daughter was applying to BS she kept in touch with her friends from Access Exeter. They were all spread far and wide with most entering 9th grade. And the differences they talked about as were enough to give a good picture when my D was narrowing her list.</p>

<p>That’s why you’ll hear some parents on the boards say they got one impression about a school and a different set of families had the opposite impression. One student will love Exeter, for example, and another comes on the board to call it Auschwitz and Azkaban. </p>

<p>Each school has some core similarities (hard courses, lots of homework,) but there are many that take the development of “child” to heart and provide a more supportive and collaborative environment.</p>

<p>Something as simple as my having to start a thread to help several student determine if a school is LGBT friendly makes that point. We had to look for schools where the AA students were what we called “unambiguously” black, rather than prep clones “fronting” so my D would be able to be herself.</p>

<p>I wonder if part of the problem is there’s a pathology among discussions boards that gives the impression that anything less than the most popular school is a failure or less than. Or that parents and students should just “stick it out” because they’re all “the same.” Again - they are not the same. Some differences are vast, others are subtle. But for a parent or student in pain it may make all the difference between a good experience and a poor one.</p>

<p>The key for any student is not to survive 3-4 years of boarding school. It’s to thrive in it - and that happens by blocking out the chatter about “best schools by popular, albeit limited, consensus” and finding the best school for that specific kid.</p>

<p>So two litmus tests for parents new to the process:</p>

<ol>
<li>Is the child a fit for boarding school life in general?</li>
</ol>

<p>if so…</p>

<ol>
<li>Is the specific school is a good fit for that specific child.</li>
</ol>

<p>ginzing, one way to find that answer is to ask what’s lacking in your son that are present with the ones that do thrive in his school as you see it. Is it the ability to navigate through difficult situations by long hours of hard work and persistent asking for help? Ability to say “No. I have work to do” to friends? Ability to live with boredom as well as huge pressure? Ability to grow even stronger facing repeated failures? Ability to relate what he’s doing now to his future? … I knwo that’s a lot to ask, but think it this way - if he was a “mama’s boy” who’d listen to you on everything, things would be much easier, but I think he chose to navigate through it by himself. That means he is not always doing things as you think makes sense, and he is not using his time most effeciently and effectively as you expect, etc. Based on what you said about your S, should you be concerned? Yes, and you should express that concern to him as often as much as appropriate, but should you be pessimistic about his future? I don’t think so. I know many parents allow their kids to choose BS because they believe in the long term benefits of going to one of these schools. The road for some is bumpier than for others, but don’t lose faith. Walk that road with him (he hears you even when you don’t think he does) now that he’s determined to stay.</p>

<p>OK. Exie, I hear you. You should be more of an expert than I am as you have at least experienced two boarding schools with two generations in decades of time. Best wishes to all who are trying to find the best fit!</p>

<p>grinzing, good point on “well-rounded”. My daughter didn’t make any close friends in her dorms. Her friends are from her extracurricular activities, kids who share her interests and have something meaningful to do together. And, even at a big school like Andover, a good number of the friends have ended up in the same classes, too.</p>

<p>What I’m finding is that I’m still evolving as a parent in my experience and expectations of a good BS education. First, just looking into HADES from the outside, I began trying to figure out what the return on investment is for almost $200,000, for a high school education (about $50,000/year x 4) full pay. Could it provide something more than our public high school could? If so, more what, rigor, EC’s, a leg up on college app based on reputation, not to mention independence, maturity, etc?</p>

<p>Don’t fault me for that. It’s a reasonable question.</p>

<p>Now, as someone with a child 2/3 thru a HADES/GLADCHEMMS, I feel differently. Just yesterday, I asked my son if he was happy with his decision to choose BS over local excellent top 100 public high school and he said resoundingly-- yes.</p>

<p>Yes, it took me some time, but I now truly believe, it won’t be the name of the BS or its prestige that gets my child noticed at a top college, but his own talent, hard work and passions. I’ve learned not to bet on the school, but bet on my kid, in terms of how he defines and achieves success.</p>

<p>Guess what? An ivy league school is no longer the return on investment that I seek from a BS education, neither is the so-called “fit” college. I believe I could have found that without an expensive BS education too.</p>

<p>At this point, the BS education return for us is a resource rich community; smaller class size, a challenging environment where my son is challenged to be his best and a place where he feels he belongs. He’s happy and I’m happy, wherever the journey takes us next.</p>

<p>I don’t know if we’ll be knocking on the door at State U, Stanford U or Ivy U next. But I do know he is in a place where he is developing his talents to the maximum potential and for now, it is good enough.</p>

<p>Sunrise: dorm placement and configuration varies widely from school to school–it’s another one of those factors I’d consider when choosing a school (would your dc do better in a dorm of all 9th graders, or one that mixes the grades? A smallish dorm with more intimacy, or a large one with more chances to meet compatible friends? ). </p>

<p>I’m sure other school do this differently, but Exeter doesn’t do any roommate surveys–just places kids as they see fit, and the dorms do seem to be a good mix of athlete and artist, FP and FA, etc. though my kids says that there are definitely dorms that tend to be “rich kid” dorms or have more of a rep. for trouble/partying. </p>

<p>Even though there’s no official policy on this, I know of several kids who requested specific dorms and had their requests granted. Still–need to be careful with that, as students will often talk up the “coolest” or nicest dorm facility as opposed to the dorm than would fit best.</p>

<p>2/3 thru year one is what I meant above. :)</p>

<p>Thank you Classicalmama.</p>

<p>rbgg: What a great post. Thanks for the update.</p>