<p>~Like all top colleges held high standards for Asian and white students compared to African American and Hispanic students though no college openly admit it~</p>
<p>Judging by your ~<em>flawless</em>~ grammar, I assume colleges didn’t hold you to any type of standard.</p>
<p>Good observation. English is my 4th language. I came here when I was 35 year old. Sometimes facts hurt, many people do not want to fact them. Many researches and publications have showed that there are always few “qualified” URM students , and many top colleges fight for them (for example, you read a book by Michele A. Hernandez,A Is for Admission: The Insider’s Guide to Getting into the Ivy League and Other Top Colleges). DO you know what these college do? They accept students from countries in Africa and count them as URM students when they publish the data. Some years, these students count as high as 40%. </p>
<p>~Like all top colleges held high standards for Asian and white students compared to African American and Hispanic students though no college openly admit it~</p>
<p>Judging by your ~<em>flawless</em>~ grammar, I assume colleges didn’t hold you to any type of standard.</p>
<p>Are we supposed to be impressed that English is your fourth language? I speak five languages fluently, English being my third, I wasn’t born in the United States and I’ll be at Stanford this fall. Before passing judgment on URMs, try learning a little about America’s historical treatment of racial minorities.</p>
<p>12rm</p>
<p>IS spot on.
</p>
<p>The fact is every university everywhere looks at the “WHOLE” package. You may go to TJ, but is that all you did? Did you have any EC’s, or did you just assume that because you went to TJ it was a given?</p>
<p>The lesson to be taught here for rising hs srs at every hs, is it is not just about stats. The universities look at everything. People will say they don’t read the essays, if you believe that you are wrong. It could be your make or break line. People think that being the Football Captain means nothing to UVA (saying that they are not recruited, just avg), but it does. It shows them that you are well rounded and can juggle more than just every AP class, it shows you are less likely to have a problem transitioning into college because you have already had to manage your time for yrs. It shows you were a LEADER in your school.</p>
<p>Young man or young lady, I properly read far more books than you thought. No one deny that racial minorities were treated badly and discriminations against minorities still exist in this county. Does that justify college lower the standards for these minorities? Is this really good for minorities, colleges and US in the long run? We can debate it.
I can read from your writing you are assuming that these minorities entitle all these special treatments and that is a very bad signs. Please don’s assume anything before you post. Good luck in Stanford. </p>
<p>Wahoomb<code>Are we supposed to be impressed that English is your fourth language? I speak five languages fluently, English being my third, I wasn’t born in the United States and I’ll be at Stanford this fall. Before passing judgment on URMs, try learning a little about America’s historical treatment of racial minorities.</code></p>
<p>Well, TJ kids put themselves in that situation by accepting the invitation to attend TJ. They knew, or should have known that it’d be much harder to stand out among their peers when seeking admission into colleges. If you willingly put yourself in a situation, I don’t think you have the right to complain about the consequences associated with that decision.</p>
<p>Actually silly, TJ kids did not put themselves into the situation, their parents did since you must apply and test for the school. I don’t think that the avg 8th grader is even thinking that it will hurt them. I believe most would say it would help them because they tested into the magnet school, thus, in their opinion they were already above their peers. They never thought that even being the slouch with a 1350, 15 APs and a 3.7 uwgpa would mean that they were less qualified than the kid who had the same at Yorktown in Arlington.</p>
<p>TJ is so high up there that Time or Newsweek, can’t remember, removed them from being eligible to compete for Top Public HS’s, they are now ranked against Privates. TJ without a doubt is one of the top 10 in the nation for HS PUBLIC and PRIVATE.</p>
<p>The problem IMHO is many TJ kids rely too much on academics for admission and believe that is all they need to get into an IVY. They have lost sight of the fact that while they scored 2400 on the SAT, other kids were making All State Swim Team and scored 2200. UVA was just saying book smart is not enough to get in, we want it all!</p>
<p>Much of this discussion is centered on access. Access to higher education which gives you access to all sorts of other things in our society. The TJ people say, hey, I have all these numbers, it is not fair to deny me access. But it is also reasonable to assert that those scores are in part bought by their own money and past privilege. </p>
<p>The first generation college student, in a poor household does not have access to the private schooling and all that involves. Universities are sensitive to making education accessible to those people too. I personally think this is the right thing to do. This means that you are going to let in some people with lower SATs because they did not have the privileged background the TJ students had. We would all recoil if colleges accepted nothing but the wealthiest students, but that is exactly what they would be doing if they only accepted students with perfect SATs, prior research experience, governor’s schools, and the like. This is what the admissions officers mean when they say they accept the students that made the most of what they had the opportunity to get in life.</p>
<p>Nigiri, I couldn’t agree more with your post. SATs have actually been shown to be the biggest predictors of wealth.</p>
<p>@bulletandpima </p>
<p>I don’t know how many kids or their parents know how attending TJ would affect the chance in college admission. We certainly did not even think that far when S2 said he was applying to TJ. We were just happy that he trying to chanllege himself and the only concern we had was the long bus ride that was over an hour.</p>
<p>Nigiri, I agree with you for the most part… but why are you assuming TJ kids are privileged? TJ is a PUBLIC school…the kids there aren’t especially privileged. You don’t pay to go to TJ - you just take a test. Before TJ, they all went to the same middle school so it’s not like they are coming from a better background.</p>
<p>Living in the NoVa region, I can tell you that privileged kids do have a much easier time gaining admission into TJ. There are many parents who, much like those enlist their kids in SAT Prep Classes, seek people to train their students for the TJ admissions test.</p>
<p>And also, I do not believe a parent would force their student into attending TJ if their kid did not want to go there. And if a parent would do such a thing, such a parent needs to care more about what their kid wants than what they want for their kid.</p>
<p>I agree with the notion that many students, and it’s not just at TJ, lose sight of the fact that being granted admission into the top-tier colleges and universities is not just a “numbers game” as it may have been in our parents’ generation. And I feel like that’s what this post is arguing, that the person had the “hard stats” to get in, but do we really know what is on the rest of the application? All the subjective things that go in to the review of an application cannot be accounted for on this forum. </p>
<p>I think, at best, we should just let this discussion die. Yes, TJ kids with better stats are not as easily accepted as their peers from “lesser” public schools in the area, but then again, to beat a dead horse, there is no telling what subjective factors went into the admissions decisions. Plus, as has been pointed out, the acceptance rate from TJ to UVa is much higher than any other public school in the Northern Virginia area can claim. Is that not evidence enough to show that UVa does not have a “stigma” against the kids from TJ?</p>
<p>sillyaardvark I agree. I don’t know how in the world someone from a school that has a 68% acceptance rate (Dean J is right, UVA LOVES TJ) can claim that they are being “treated unfairly”. It is absurd. Many schools also have average SAT scores that are higher than the SAT scores published as the “average” by UVA, not just TJ. But when you are told you are going to the “best high school in America” it must be a bitter pill to swallow that you were not one of the 68% admitted.</p>
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<p>No, that is not at all sufficient. For example, suppose that in a more simplified and blatant case, all applicants have only the SAT. Now suppose we have six people whose SATs are 1900, 2000, 2100, 2200, 2300, and 2400. Now we subdivide them as such: Group 1 (a normal high school) has the 1900, 2000 and 2100. Group 2 (TJ) has the 2200, 2300 and 2400. Now, we have someone (UVA) who must choose about 50% of the available people. He chooses one person from Group 1 and two people from Group 2.</p>
<p>By your argument, of course there is no stigma against Group 2. They chose 2/3 of them. That is higher than the average rate of 50% and double Group 1’s rate!</p>
<p>I am not asserting whether there is or is not a stigma against TJ and other more privileged schools. I am merely demonstrating that your argument is horribly flawed and that your assertion that there is no stigma is not supported that way.</p>
<p>And there’s a terrible flaw in your argument as well, again, it’s not taking into account all of the subjective factors which are also a part of the admissions process. As has been pointed out before, “hard data” is only a piece of the puzzle. </p>
<p>Just because someone has a 2200+ SAT score does not mean he or she should be granted admission into any college.</p>
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<p>That’s not part of my argument. I never claimed any of those, and in my simplified scenario, I said SAT scores were the only thing anyone had (besides “group”).</p>
<p>I’m saying your attempt to use TJ’s high acceptance rate as proof that there is no anti-TJ stigma is logically unsound. That being said, I also said I did not assert whether there is one or not.</p>
<p>One thing is certain. Admitted TJ student is much better than admitted normal school student at least from score wise. Also, I know it’s true right now in UVA.</p>
<p>This may be a total shock to those who go to TJ but there are actually very good students that do not live in NOVA and have the opportunity to go to “the best high school in America.” The SAT score argument is also bogus because you are assuming that the top scorers are from TJ and not anyone of the excellent other schools in and OOS. To say that only the best students in NOVA, America or for that matter Virginia go there is ridiculous. Take a look at the stats that some of the OOS kids who were rejected on other posts on this board (UVA Decisions Thread) and tell me that TJ is being unfairly judged. 68% OF THE STUDENTS GOT IN THAT APPLIED LAST YEAR FROM TJ. That is a statistic that can not be argued. All of these other arguments are “what ifs”. Unless you can tell me that only 12% were accepted this year anyone arguing that TJ is being held to some higher standard is totally and completely wrong. In fact I would argue that the complete reverse is true and UVA allows students in simply because they go to TJ. Sorry but that is the truth. I know it hurts to be rejected and everyone today wants to blame something or some thing, but you must accept the fact that for what ever reason some people do not get into UVA. It’s like that for all students in all schools not just TJ.</p>
<p>The average SAT score for TJ student is 2200. You’ll be very hard to find a normal school to have average SAT over 2000.</p>