<p>
</p>
<p>And as I have demonstrated, this is meaningless. You cannot draw any conclusions from that alone. Please stop citing it by itself.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Thanks for that, but you still haven’t established why.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Let’s hear it then.</p>
<p>Believe it or not gwood, there are many “normal” kids from “normal schools” throughout the Commonwealth – NoVa and otherwise – who scored 2200+ on the SAT. Many of them are at UVa right now. Are you suggesting that an applicant from TJ should be selected over these students because TJ’s average SAT score is higher? That’s ludicrous. </p>
<p>There are also students with the option of attending TJHSST who choose not to, precisely because they want to attend a “normal” school. </p>
<p>Just because a student is a good test taker does not automatically make them a valuable addition to a college community. Folks tend to lose sight of the fact that admissions departments at selective colleges and universities look for students who will bring something to the community. Some students are selected simply for the intellectual capacity they can bring to the classroom. But to be vibrant educational communities, schools also need the students who, in addition to holding their own in the classroom, will run for student government, will volunteer in the surrounding community, will organize intramural sports teams, will act in student productions, join vocal and instrumental music groups, write for the school newspaper, etc., etc. And, like it or not, in today’s world schools also strive for ethnic, socioeconomic, and geographic diversity. For public colleges, geographic diversity includes kids from rural areas who did not have access to a school with all the bells and whistles of a TJ, but whose state representative serves on a committee that oversees funding for higher ed.</p>
<p>Look, if last year’s numbers are indicative of this year’s, around 350 TJ students applied to UVa. Only 3,380 in-state students total were offered admission. As good a school as TJ is, it is unreasonable to suggest that all TJ applicants should be admitted. No one high school is likely to get over 10% of the offers of admission for the in-state pool. This is especially true when it is a school which draws from a limited geographic area and it is not very ethnically or socio-economically diverse.</p>
<p>Excellent post, Ava.</p>
<p>Omega, your scenario using only SAT scores proves nothing. You didn’t cite a particular SAT score as being the qualifying score, number one, and number two so what? Are you saying your scenario is representative of what you believe to be the case? Meaning they are purposely ignoring “more qualified” TJ students using all of the criteria they actually use? In other words are you saying TJ students’ essays, ec’s, gpa’s and diversity factors are ALL higher than other groups of students? Number one, they’re not (there are other governor’s schools in VA, and private etc; OOS too…and of course many students have all of the factors in “normal” in -state and OOS schools).</p>
<p>The fact is if you look at any single high school TJ’s admission numbers are quite high. This year was a disappointing year for many qualified students in all high schools…many students met all of the factors looked at in admissions, and were rejected. There are shocked faces in every high school. </p>
<p>To the OP: I do hope you have a school that you will happily attend (and either fall in love with and stay all four years, or transfer into UVA sophomore year).</p>
<p>Omega Sanction et. al. I don’t know what else to say to explain why UVA is not being biased in the case of TJ students. So here it is one more time. </p>
<p>If the federal government was trying to say that UVA is bias against TJ students they would be laughed out of court with the only statistic that is true for this discussion. “68% of those who apply to UVA from TJ are accepted.” No school in Virginia or the country has that admit rate. Why? Because UVA knows that TJ is a fantastic school and SOME of the best students in Virginia go to that school. You keep citing the SAT example you laid out as some type of proof that ALL TJ students are all the best students in Virginia and therefore should be automatically accepted. You are wrong my friend. I said it before and I say it again look at the waitlist discussion on this board and tell me that some of those students that were rejected did not have similar numbers to TJ in state or OOS. I’m not going to run you through the numbers, just look for yourself. </p>
<p>Every year at local high schools there is someone with great stats that is above average compared to the UVA numbers. Everyone says “you’re a shoe in.” Then they don’t get into UVA. (Again look at the waitlist board and you will see what I’m talking about.) They have fantastic ECs, great GPA and are class leaders. It’s just the way the college admitting process works. Nobody runs around and says “if they went to TJ he/she would have gotten it.” Although with a 68% admit rate they would have an excellent point.</p>
<p>If you are trying to prove that TJ students are being held to some higher standard then provide your proof. To help you ponder the question here is the definition of bias. “To influence in a particular, typically unfair direction; prejudice.” Can you explain how 68% admit rate, when the average admits rate is probably less than 5% supports your argument of bias? </p>
<p>I’ll stop posting after this because I think any reasonable person looking at the REAL statistics would come to the same conclusion. That being that TJ students are not being judged unfairly simply because they are in a competitive school. If you want me to agree that not all stellar students, whether they go to TJ or not, sometimes do not get into UVA then I’ll agree with you because that is the truth.</p>
<p>I’m just gonna introduce a question that’s not rhetorical at all. How well is the average TJ student doing at UVA? can anyone comment on this?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>someone tried to explain that
</p>
<p>This argument is invalid because first of all the pool ratios are wrong, I’m trying to compare TJ to the rest of the applicants. And also he’s saying that the average from langley is 1400 compared to 1500 from TJ but what I’m comparing is the average from TJ and the average from the entire acceptance pool collectively.</p>
<p>regarding the above post, the average of ACCEPTED students is 1475 in this guy’s argument, which is why his statement is invalid. he’s throws out that the average SAT from LANGLEY is 1400, which isn’t even a relevant statistic.</p>
<p>Omega Sanction has made the point that you cannot conclude that there is no discrimination simply because TJ students have a higher admit rate. As a logical proposition this is obviously correct, yet several posters have completely missed the point. He is not saying that there is or is not discrimination; rather, he is saying that you cannot answer the question definitively based on comparisons of a single statistic. </p>
<p>Likewise, I made the point that higher average SAT scores and GPAs for TJ admits versus other schools’ admits does not prove that TJ students are held to a higher standard. This has generated a couple of responses that betray a complete lack of understanding; nonetheless, I will try one more time. An earlier poster had shown the average SAT scores and GPAs for TJ admits and for all admits, and then asserted that TJ was held to a higher standard because its averages were higher. My response was that it is entirely possible for schools’ admits to have different averages despite being held to the same standard. In the example, students from the two schools were held to the same standard. To wit, everyone with an SAT of 1400 or above was admitted while those below 1400 were rejected. Yet, the average SAT for TJ admits was 1500 versus 1400 for Langley admits. The example–and it was just a numerical example–did exactly what it purported to do. Once again, I am not saying that there is or is not discrimination; rather, I am saying that you cannot draw a definitive conclusion based on comparisons of average SAT scores or GPAs.</p>
<p>dude, in your example you use TJ vs Langley, as opposed to TJ vs (TJ + everyone else). The 1509 vs 1326 is TJ vs (TJ+ everyone else) and if you do that with your example it comes out to 1500 vs 1475, which isn’t relevant at all to the numbers I posted. An besides you made TJ as the bigger pool, which obviously isn’t realistic.</p>
<p>so can you come up with another flawed argument to account for the near 20% difference in SAT scores?? </p>
<p>I’m not saying “here look at the numbers, heres 100% proof for why TJ is being discriminated” but when there’s a 20% difference it has to be somehow significant.</p>
<p>This is a remarkable thread. Consider this. Two people have the same SAT score, one is from TJHS, the other a first generation college applicant born of a single parent in the coal regions of SW Virginia. With equal scores, who do you accept? I accept the less privileged student who has done just as well given the circumstances. The TJ student has everything going for them. </p>
<p>Now, consider yourself a dean of admissions, interested in broad access and cultural diversity because that makes your college a better place. How much lower does the rural SAT have to be before you gauge them roughly equivalent in terms of future success in college? How low does the SAT go before you accept the NOVA kid over the coal mine kid. These are the decisions being made.</p>
<p>Then, add to the fact that you don’t want your entire freshman class coming from NOVA every year and there you have it. Call it discrimination if you want, but the predominantly wealthy people that have access and prep their kids for everything in life are essentially buying their way into college, at the expense of someone with natural talent that has no support network to help them along. I’ve done it for my kids…</p>
<p>Why is UVA a great school? Because the students and faculty are so great. Why are they so great? Because they make smart admission decisions year after year. But some kid that got a rejection with high SATs from the TJWCFTO (Thomas Jefferson Winter Camp For The Overprivileged) knows better, but is forced to go to Amherst or Vassar or William and Mary…life is rough…</p>
<p>Another fact: how many of you think TJ GPA will be equivalent with other school’s GPA. Do you really think TJ 4.0 will be equal with other school’s 4.0. How many student in normal school takes complex variable in math as TJ student did.</p>
<p>We don’t put students side by side. We read randomly. </p>
<p>TJ students, go talk to your counselors. Look up admit stats in Naviance. As I’ve said before, there are hundreds of TJ students admitted to UVa each year. There is no stigma when it comes to TJ. We have always had a great relationship with the school. Over 100 students routinely take us up on offers of admission each year. We are happy to have you here.</p>
<p>Once again, any talk about GPA without mentioning the scale is meaningless.</p>
<p>Good luck Dean J. I’ve been trying to convince these folks that they are not somehow being treated unfairly and have not been successful. They are convinced that UVA is somehow capping admissions from their school or using yield control and I don’t think any amount of discussion will change their minds. Even from someone from UVA admissions that knows the real facts.</p>
<p>Before this thread goes on too wild. I have to clarify that I have nothing to against UVA and its admission. Actually, I really appreciate their work towards TJ student. I think they’re the best university to treat TJ student. I just personally know lots of TJ kids and know how good they are. I think they all deserve the best education. UVA is much much much better than some of IVies in terms of admission towards TJ student.</p>
<p>Based on those Naviance stats posted earlier, I find it hard to believe the people here complaining are anything more than completely immature. MORE THAN HALF OF YOUR SENIOR GRADE GOT ACCEPTED TO UVA! That’s the BEST public university in the nation, and one of the best overall. At NO other school even remotely close to the quality of UVA will you hear of over half the senior grade of a single high school being accepted. To argue that UVA is discriminating against your school is a blatantly obvious attempt to try and justify to yourself why you were rejected, because it seems to me that going to TJ puts you at a better position than anyone else in the country to get into UVA.</p>
<p>Perhaps what you all are missing is what has become clear in this thread. UVA has a holistic approach to acceptance- they want to take students who are good in the classroom and test well, but who are also well rounded, creative, interesting, and mature people. You are simply assuming that good test scores and pretty good grades at a top HS automatically qualifies you for admission. But you are missing the HUGE factor in the equation that is you as a person outside of school. I would not doubt that if the #1 student at TJ, who took the top courses and aced them all and had 2400 SATs, applied to UVA, yet had bland essays, few ECs, and nothing special in their recommendations, they would almost definitely be rejected! Why don’t you stop for a second and realize how immature you sound in this thread, and then consider for a second that maybe immaturity and this sense of entitlement you have is the reason you did not get in.</p>
<p>isn’t this thread dead yet? Every random person continues to come here and beat a dead horse. All these points have been made and remade.</p>
<p>guillaume, you are rude. Not “every random person” has posted on this thread, and for the most part the points being made are not iterative. I suggest that if you think an expired equine is being battered, you no longer log in to view the carnage. </p>
<p>You have contributed mostly snide remarks about other posters, and nothing relevant to the subject matter of the dialog.</p>
<p>^hahahahaha</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Thank you for making my all ready fantastic day even better. I’ve been laughing for about fifteen minutes at this.</p>
<p>Nigiri – not everyone at TJ is overprivileged. trust me.</p>