Down the tubes. Please help!

College Majors Music Major
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<p>Very good points about the sequence of the music theory and problems with starting midyear. If your son is dealing with social anxiety, a mid-year start could really be difficult. Firstyear students do a lot of bonding during the orientation and first month of school. Small LACs tend to have a number of “bonding” rituals-serious and goofy- during the orientation (class of 20__ picture, honor code ceremonies, etc). I would not recommend missing out on these.</p>

<p>The issues your son had with the orchestra suggest that another year at home (with therapy, music lessons, subbing and taking a few college courses) could improve his likelihood of success once he starts college. Like your son, my son bombed high school orchestra as a result of being called out in front of the group. Being young, he took it way too personally and reacted in a passive-aggressive manner (being late, missing rehearsals). Learning to cope with less-than-ideal conductors is an essential professional skill. My son’s behavior in high school would be totally unacceptable in a college setting regardless of his emotional concerns. Not everyone in college authority positions is going to be nice and it is important to master coping strategies before entering the place where he will spend four years of his life. Faculty talk among themselves. Your son’s professors will be his references and a big influence on the opportunities he has in the future. The music world is small.</p>

<p>I could tell my son had matured as, in college, he was again humiliated in front of one of his performing groups when he was late and did not have all of his materials together. He talked his upset over with friends and family and was able to endure two years of this particular professor without resulting to passive aggressive behaviors or avoidance. This professor was very complimentary to my son over his grad school acceptances. Without my son’s better coping skills, it could have been a very different outcome. Through talk therapy, he had developed skills that enabled him to think through the situation, reduce his anxiety and stay focused on his goals-not something he could do at 17.</p>

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<p>Just PM’d you a joke. (re the “irrational fear” of being late for the conductor.</p>

<p>BTW… I think that one time or another every musician develops a RATIONAL fear of being late for a conductor. ^:)^ </p>

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<p>Okay–this new information about the sync of classes is going to get me asking questions. In some ways, I think he would be out of sync anyway because he’s a dual degree. He has more time to complete the degree requirements (5 years) but he has to progress more slowly through each program because he’s dovetailing the two loads. I will inquire. I really appreciate your flagging this. As to the orientation and getting-to-know you activities: these are things he would run from as fast as he could. He was specifically planning to request NOT to be put in the freshman dorm because he doesn’t want these kinds of activities forced on him. I think he’d actually enjoy slipping into school midyear without anyone much noticing. He’s one who enjoys being solitary (though not friendless) and feels pretty comfortable doing his own thing. He tends to make friends with those who enjoy his particular interests rather than having a wide range of friends. He’s had lots of practice getting comfortable with strangers in summer-length music camps. Possibly, there are some midyear orientation activities for those transferring in, and the conservatory has a January term, which might allow him to get his feet wet at school for a month with a smaller campus before many of the students came back. My biggest concern would be that it might be harder to get into the school routines and protocols if he came mid-year. Everyone else would know, for instance, the concert protocol (or whatever) and not realize that he hadn’t been there to hear it. Also, perhaps he would miss in the formation of small ensembles and auditions for them. I will be asking these questions.</p>

<p>Hornet: Yep–he has to be able to handle ornry conductors, and until this one, he could. He worked at Tanglewood with a particularly vehement coach, someone who really bawled out the cellist in his group when he arrived late and without all his music, and my S still enjoyed his experience with coaching, even though I think he was a bit afraid of the coach. Ironically, he went to the university orchestra knowing the conductor already: he’d played under him the previous year in his youth orchestra. I’m still shaking my head about what it was this year that unhinged my S with this guy.</p>

<p>Singersmom: Yep–I know about the academic components of the music major. My S has played piano since 4 and learned theory concurrently through his piano studies. He aced AP Music Theory his junior year. His teacher told me she’d never had anyone so talented at theory in all her years of teaching. (I know AP Theory is much easier than what he will have in college, but we’re expecting that he will place well). I know he’ll have to work at music history because he’s not a memorizer or a good history student. However, I really don’t think this is an academic content issue. It’s a going-to-class and completing work issue.</p>

<p>Thanks for your concerns, all of you. I think if he is successful for a term at home and the school will let him come midterm, that’s what we’ll do. If he’s not, he’ll enter with the next class. Either seems better to me than starting now.</p>

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<p>I just hope you won’t make any firm decisions as yet. It is possible he could get derailed by a gap year, rather than be restored. You know him best: I have seen both happen. I know, personally, several kids in similar situations who DID go in the fall. There can be a quick turnaround if meds are part of the picture, or even with therapy. Once your son has a diagnosis, he can enter Oberlin with a lot of accommodations and support, including reduced courseload. He could start the theory sequence at the beginning, since he is advanced: many students do this and it is a stress reducer. He could just do conservatory and wait to see if he wants to do the double degree. He can avoid orientation activities but will still start in sync.</p>

<p>A lot of times I think a lot of us are big supporters of gap years, but for some reason there are situations where it seems like getting back on the horse might be really helpful. You will figure it out, as will he, but I do hope you’ll wait before doing anything official.</p>

<p>One of my kids was in a certain dorm at a certain Ivy due to a medical condition, and many in that dorm had had recent psych. issues. Out of 15 on her floor, one went home the first day, and two went home after a couple of months. They returned the following fall. Twelve made it through the year and in fact through the 4 years, with supports that presumably were continued unless the need went down.</p>

<p>Once he attends, he becomes part of Oberlin and has that path before him. He can take fewer courses, and take a little longer, and he can take leaves, but once he has attended, it is his place. If he waits, he could get off course and not have that sense of a place.</p>

<p>But just playing devil’s advocate and you will know after information gathering and time to sift through it all.</p>

<p>Are you far away from Oberlin? Being close or frequent visits can help a lot- both parent and kid!</p>

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<p>I’m with compmom on this one I think–hoping that no firm decisions have been made yet, and wondering if after diagnosis, medications, interventions, etc., it would be possible to start in the conservatory in the fall. A double degree, if desired, could be started later, but at least the theory sequence would be underway. I would worry as well that a gap year would lead to him getting off course and lose focus. If he has a successful summer at Aspen, that could be enough to inspire him to move on to college with enthusiasm and excitement. </p>

<p>You mention him not needing the ‘socialization’ of the orientations–but there is also the aspect of all the important information and details that are presented during those sessions. If he comes in mid-year, everyone else will ‘know the ropes’, and I fear he will be left feeling a little out of the loop and perhaps even overwhelmed. Orientations are meant to familiarize students with what the need to know in order to settle in and make the campus their new home away from home.</p>

<p>I know none of us really know the whole story here, and it’s your call. But, I hope there isn’t later regret for not having started this fall.</p>

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<p>Music theory sequence content are different at every school. No matter how intuitive theory seems to be for a young musician, the language and approach will be vary. Almost certainly he will be required to begin with the first semester of the sequence. Many students come to a conservatory situation with music theory experience and stellar AP scores, and while the school might grant general music credit, it is very unlikely it will substitute for a requirement. As special as most of these entering freshmen were in their high school environments, they are not unique. Many entering conservatory musicians have had experience with local university ensembles, even been stars. It helps to enter into this new world with others who are also gaining a new perspective about how good they are and how they stack up. </p>

<p>Orientation and group activities are about learning the ropes, especially how and where to handle what. Those are lessons all students need to learn. Additionally, some of what college accomplishes is an adaptation to a different social structure away from the family, just like the real world. He does not have to be buddies or friends with everyone he meets, but he does have to learn how to live and work with them. Avoiding the freshman dorm is often, if not usually, unavoidable, and against the protocols of student affairs and school policy. </p>

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<p>I’m glad that things seem to be working out for the best. I had misunderstood that he was failing more than one class, so that three week class seems a relatively easy fix. I’d caution you about riding that swinging pendulum too far (just a couple of days ago you were sleeping in his room and now it sounds like this is just a minor problem).</p>

<p>To my mind (and you should give this all the consideration that an opinion from a stranger on the internet should receive!), I’d rather see him miss the summer at Aspen than a semester at college. My reasons: </p>

<p>(1) consequences for his poor choices over the last few months (seriously: even if there’s solid physical or psychological reasons for his behavior, a tangible reminder that You.Don’t.Do.That. seems appropriate. He doctored his transcript for you! Even if it’s full tuition as Aspen, there’s travel etc.) Missing a summer festival will not put his future in music into jeopardy.</p>

<p>(2) lower long term consequences than starting college late (it’s wonderful that Oberlin is willing to work with your family on this and I buy into lots of the things others have said about starting college at orientation. Do you have older children? If not, talk to some friends who have: most kids “despise” orientation activities. But it helps),</p>

<p>(3) gives you the chance to observe his choices over the summer (How about a job? Nothing like having to report to McDonald’s every day to make you realize that showing up for orchestra is a privilege…)</p>

<p>Please take this in the positive spirit in which it is intended. I’ve gone through my own struggles with my son, and for him, it was important for him to take the responsibility for his own choices rather than rely on my “fixing” things for him.</p>

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<p>Clarimom and compmom: you guys are amazing! I was just fixing dinner and reassessing the deferment option and thinking, I haven’t even heard a diagnosis or treatment yet, and I never even found out what services the school has in place. If he could be flagged for class attendance, missed tests, or counseling sessions, he might be able to do just fine at the school. I was thinking that I wanted to backtrack and make the decision when I have all the information. Then I got on here and that’s what you were both advocating!</p>

<p>Ironically, I was also recalling that my first semester at college was an utter bust. I was a straight A high school student starting out in the engineering program. I failed calculus because I didn’t go to class because I wanted to watch a soap opera everyone on our floor was watching (OMG: I’ve never watched a soap opera since!) and I didn’t show up for the midterm. I didn’t do the homework because I had been in a pattern of doing most math homework the night before a test. I hadn’t anticipated that college calc would go so much faster than high school calc and I got hopelessly behind. I would have failed chemistry that same semester because I hated the class, couldn’t get myself to do the assignments and was too embarrassed and dismayed by my lack of work to face the recitation. Luckily, when I changed my major to English, I could drop the chemistry class. It was my happiest moment of first semester. I was put on academic probation, which I was utterly disdainful of because I couldn’t imagine that the university thought I was a failing student. I shook off my parents’ concern and proclaimed that I was planning to retake calc, which I did, against their advice. I did every assignment on time and got the highest grade in a class of 50 students. Hmmm…I guess the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. I’m amazed that this is the first time since this has happened that I remembered my own experience at college! I guess I remembered the good and deleted much of the bad.</p>

<p>I’m not saying this to rationalize away my S’s problems, but if I had been my parent, I would have been worried. I’m rethinking my feelings this morning and keeping options open for my S next fall.</p>

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<p>Stradmom: I don’t know what I’ve said that indicates I think this is a minor problem–I don’t. It’s a problem that hasn’t been fully assessed yet, and I agree that making a decision without knowing the magnitude of the problem is unwise. I respect your opinion about Aspen and think it well-reasoned. I don’t agree with the choice, but I do agree that having parents, teachers and school fix problems can be damaging to a kid, mentally-healthy or otherwise. I would never unquestioningly adopt the opinions of a stranger on the internet–however, getting everyone’s take on this has been incredibly helpful to me in framing the problems and possible solutions. Even more helpful has been responding to your comments. I think putting my thoughts into words helps me clarify what I think is true.</p>

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<p>Lorelei: Great info on theory. I’m not a musician, so the theory sequence is all Greek to me. I believe AP Music Theory is like most AP’s: you can miss a lot of problems and still get a 5. My son got nearly perfect scores on all the practice tests he took in the class, which was what impressed his teacher so much. That neither promises that he will do well in theory at the conservatory nor that he will have problems with it. With all I have to consider, there are many other things I can be more worried about than that he won’t have the intellectual horsepower to handle a subject he’s shown an aptitude for. While the idea that the music major is an “easy” major from an academic standpoint has been frequently expressed (and refuted) on this forum, it’s not one that I’ve ever held.</p>

<p>Freshmen get free choice in dorms at the school and they can specifically request not to be put in an all freshmen dorm (or to be certain to be put in one). They can choose to be part of a co-op. Those who choose not to be in the freshman dorm may wish to avoid an environment where everyone is going through the college adjustment (and going overboard in enjoying their new freedoms) at the same time. My S’s an introvert and likes to choose with whom and when he socializes. I think he will find other students like him at Oberlin. It’s one of the reasons he was so taken with the school.</p>

<p>It’s easy to give off the wrong tone in writing. I hope I’m not sounding catty. I really appreciate all your views. Everyone here has been really supportive. Thank you!</p>

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<p>Oh yeah–I keep forgetting to answer this question. We do not live close to Oberlin: a 12 hour drive.</p>

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<p>Accommodations and support at colleges can include single room, reduced courseload, excused absences, extensions/postponements, make-up exams, exams alone in a room, notes from class, tutoring, time management, counseling etc. My family is so grateful for the accommodations that helped one of our kids, who is a high achiever and had to learn to accept certain limitations in order to really thrive. Her experience really makes me feel very positive about the ability of kids with all kinds of challenges to follow the path they want, maybe a little more zig zaggy or a little slower, but they get there just the same. No matter what your family decides about the summer or fall, it seems that you are wise enough to help him feel like he is still on the path…in school, out of school, gap year or on campus in September. And hope you can keep options open as long as you can!!</p>

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<p>Your son’s mental health is first and foremost. How can any decisions be made when the problem has not yet been determined. This could be a very serious medical (psychiatric) issue and the discussion is whether or not the theory sequence will get out of whack. I feel for you dec51995 and your son, I so really do. But please focus solely on getting him better. The rest can wait. Far more than a music career is at stake.</p>

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<p>I agree with Compdad: his mental health comes first. The rest can follow. Don’t worry about a gap year or even two-- many music kids take them, and for all sorts of reasons. I feel for you, too. These crises are so hard on the parents. </p>

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<p>This is just an informational contribution for consideration to a mid-year start from my own son’s experience.</p>

<p>Recently on a long road trip we were reviewing his highlights and disappointments of his UG degree. His only major regret was a sequence of things that were caused by his failing his first term of music theory, which was a foundation course that had sequence ramifications for the next four years. For him to “catch up” and still graduate in four years (due to his 4-year scholarship…we were clear he was on his own dime if he needed a fifth) meant that he couldn’t take his first traditional composition course until later in the sequence, that then conflicted with another upper-level course he had really wanted to pursue. While he loved his educational experience overall, he really regrets not having gone a little further into a couple of areas.</p>

<p>His particular degree was highly sequenced, but even at a large music school with robust offerings, there was no way of getting in sequence on theory.</p>

<p>This would lead me to wonder whether a mid-year start might not lead to the same kind of sequencing issues. Sure it’s doable, but is the quality of the sequence optimal? My hunch along with others who’ve made similar suggestions is that from an economic and pragmatic standpoint, a fall start may net a better overall sequence in terms of music.</p>

<p>If you were dedicated to the idea of a mid-year start, then I think the academic degree might be a better place to begin, starting the conservatory the following fall.</p>

<p>Just food for thought. It might be worth taking a very close looks at the schedule and pre-reqs for his music degree courses.</p>

<p>I empathize with your son, BTW, because I pulled a similar stunt in my junior year at HS…and then again as a freshman at university. Let’s just say I survived despite myself and have since lead a mostly productive and largely entertaining – at least to me – life ;)</p>

<p>So hugs to you both!</p>

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<p>I think the best way to make mental health a priority, Compdad, is to keep options open. Some of us have seen amazing and rapid turnarounds in a situation like this, and have also seen how a gap year can derail some kids, benefit others. I also think there are many ways to continue to grow musically, regardless of what happens.</p>

<p>Although the concern about theory sequence and social orientation etc. may seem superficial in the context of some potentially serious problems, they are in some ways being discussed as part of the mental health picture, I think. </p>

<p>Another factor I want to note is the obvious competence and loving spirit of the parent who posted, who might actually be able to get help for the son that is effective enough for a fall start. But also a parent who will know if that is not a good idea. </p>

<p>p.s. It is also okay to try a school and take a leave if it is not working out (I have seen this happen even in the first week), but then the student has that school to return to when things are better…yes there are hurdles to get over in order to come back (proving you are ready) but essentially, once on campus in the falll, there is a certain level of commitment to the student.</p>

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<p>Each of us has our own unique perspective things for dec1995 to consider. Though rooted in lots of factual information, the suggestions are colored by our own perceptions. I have shared a lot about my kids as example. Maybe not a good idea. I like compdad’s re-centering this conversation to the primary issue: what is the status of this young man’s mental health? </p>

<p>I am an ABD clinical psychologist (yes, one of those whom several parents suggested the OP avoid). I worked in adolescent mental health for 10 years before switching over to teaching. I left so I could be at home with my kids when they were young. I got addicted to having the summer off and 17 years later didn’t finish my program or go back to clinical work…</p>

<p>Food for thought:

  1. Dec1995’s son’s marathon lying and complicated ruse sent off an alarm in me Questions I would ask: Is he aware of how he hurt others? Has he apologized for his actions toward his schools, Oberlin and his parents? Is he simply humiliated and worried about how he would in the eyes others or is is discomfort seated in a deep sense of “I am not deserving”? There is more hope for his recovery with the latter. People change if motivated by internal forces (i.e.: It is wrong for me to do this to others). They don’t if they are simply humiliated by being blocked from their objective. Only Mom knows the answer to these questions. </p>

<ol>
<li><p>What is OP’s unwillingness to live with age peers in college about? Many kids feel like they don’t fit in with peers in high school and dread freshman orientation. Most go ahead and tolerate it but, in the end, benefit. Hanging out with upperclassmen results in a lonely senior year and a lack of peers to connect with over the next challenge-leaving college. Is he dismissive of peers because he is anxious about their potential judgement or does he feel superior to them? If it is the latter, we are not dealing with social anxiety but something much more resistant to change. </p></li>
<li><p>It is easy to be swept away by this young man’s wonderful talent-his accomplishments are fantastic. The fact that these problems have been going on for two years (not just a senior slump) concerns me. As a parent, it is difficult to look at loosing the enjoyment/satisfaction of seeing their child move to the next level. Giving up a dream (even temporarily) and looking at the alternatives is so painful. It is easy to want to avoid the pain of the reality.</p></li>
<li><p>Several parents are concerned about what a gap year would do. I am more concerned about what failure in the first year would do. Kids who are being treated for known physical health issues and those with diagnosed psychological issues or learning disabilities that have been under treatment for a long time should go on with their dreams. What is needed as an accommodation is clear. The parents have had years of advocating experience, the student has been working with the issues and is well versed in his/her needs. I don’t recall reading anything in her son’s history that suggested any previous problems. In my current work with reverse transfer college students, I see more damage done with those who had a newly emerging illness who went on to a four year college and had to withdraw (shame, self-loathing) than in those who scaled back and took a gap year.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I will stop responding to the thread. I may be more confusing than helpful and I am sure the OP is in information overload by now. I do like exploring these challenges and have enjoyed, as I said earlier, the different views presented</p>

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<p>Sorry for the typos,punctuation errors and word swaps (meant to use losing not loosing-uggg)</p>

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<p>Thank you so much hornet for your informative post. This has been a great thread, not only for such helpful information and advice from so many angles, but also because it helps everyone to see that we are not in this alone. I think such disparity of advice stems from the fact that at first it seemed like the young man was failing everything and in such serious condition that mom had to sleep in his room, but then a day or two later, was only failing one class and things were turning around. It’s hard to get a good grasp on the situation not knowing the complete details. What appeared to be serious mental illness could possibly be a senioritis slump or a gifted child being totally bored, a learning disability leading to frustration, or many other possibilities. We just don’t know. I think all advice given is well and good in its place and dec51995 and her son will make the best choices for his individual situation. I look forward to updates from dec51995, as I’m sure we all do–this young man and his crises has been taken to heart by all of us. </p>

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<p>Hornet: your posts are helpful. I do feel I’m on information overload, but it doesn’t make me feel any worse than being uninformed. This situation is dominating my thoughts right now, of course.</p>

<p>News: I asked the psychologist which tests she is prescribing for my son. Her primary concern is the anxiety (I’m guessing she’ll be targeting social anxiety and OCD, as he’s not having panic attacks or PTSD or generalized anxiety disorder, but she will also be testing him for IQ, executive functioning, Autism Spectrum Disorder, Memory test (visual) and Non-verbal Language Disorder. She said she wants the IQ test because she knows he’s highly intelligent and this can affect a lot of different areas, including social engagement). She expects the executive functioning to come out normal because performing the test in isolation in an office is far easier than staying organized in real life. I don’t need a test to tell me that he has executive functioning deficits: he’s a poster child for them. She locked into his facial-recognition and space-recognition deficits (can’t remember faces well, gets lost easily, doesn’t know how to get home from places we go to all the time, which is what is prompting the visual memory testing. The ASD is for the social engagement and eye contact. And nonverbal because of the social engagement issue again. I think this one is off because he’s got great math ability and fine motor coordination, but we’ll see what her conclusions are.</p>

<p>I really appreciate all the suggestions to get the best help available. Believe me–I know the difficulties I’m facing in getting a good diagnosis and effective treatment. You’ll all be glad to know she’s setting me up with a therapist to begin Cognitive Behavioral Therapy before all testing is complete. He should be able to do at least 4 sessions before he needs to leave. However, I don’t have unlimited resources. We need to stay in network. My uncle’s a psychiatrist (retired, of course), but I will at least run all this by him for an unofficial second opinion. I know we’ve got a long road ahead of us because I know the symptoms of each of these disorders and my son has some of all of them but counter-indications for each, also. For instance, the ASD is something that has cropped up before. He played for a professor once and didn’t get into a program because the professor thought he had Asperger’s. (There’s an interesting abuse of popular psychology for you. A musician “diagnosing” a kid with a psychological disorder after a half-hour lesson and basing a placement decision on it! Made me a bit ticked.) But he also has an excellent sense of humor, has no problems understanding sarcasm, doesn’t have any problem understanding that other people have their own thoughts, can read body language cues and social cues just fine, doesn’t perseverate on a topic when his listener has signalled no interest) It will be interesting to see what comes out.</p>

<p>I think some of you are on the wrong track with the social piece. It might be that I haven’t described my son well or it might be that we have some prevailing cultural ideas that are getting in the way in this discussion. If any of you are familiar with Susan Cain’s popular book: Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can’t Stop Talking, you’ll know what I’m trying to express. I ran into this book this spring, showed it to my S and we’ve both been reading it with interest. Some of you are posing that my S is disdainful of his peers or looks down on them and this is why he keeps to himself and doesn’t want to live in the freshman dorm. I can tell you (but Cain would do it much more effectively) that many of us prefer a few close friends to a multitude and find ice breakers and such wearisome because we like to get to know our friends slowly over time and these friends tend to be people with our same interests, not the people who live in the room across the hall from us. As such, we’re comfortable with not knowing a lot of people at first. Sure, my S needs to communicate with his fellow classmates and I think he does. He often befriends his stand partner in orchestra (especially if they have similar interests in music, math or computers) and usually one or two of the people in his quartets). He doesn’t seek out company, but he doesn’t resist friendly people who make an effort to get to know him. I think he’s pleased when they do so because it takes the effort off him to make the first move. One of the worst things for him is to get stuck in a conversation that doesn’t interest him. He’d rather spend his time doing his own thing. As an introvert myself, I think I understand how my son is feeling, though he is more aware of himself and more resistant to society’s pressure to act more extrovertedly than I ever was at his age. I’ve come to accept myself and my preferences and have enjoyed reading about the many contributions that introverts bring to the world. For those of us who have always been told, “Don’t be shy, speak up, have some confidence!” just because we consider carefully before sharing our thoughts, this book is empowering. I have some concern that the psychologist will pathologize my son’s preference to be solitary. I think he has some social anxiety in certain situations (as do I), but it doesn’t stop him from doing the things he really wants to do, like attend computer programming meet-ups for professionals and talk with programming enthusiasts about Java Script (where he is right at this moment). It can be a sign of mental illness but it can also be a personality trait that should be respected. I’m going to keep an open mind about this, but I’m also going check under the hood of any diagnosis that doesn’t seem to match what I see.</p>

<p>Compdad, thanks for your concern for the well-being of my child and for reminding us to stay focused on that. It’s going to be a month before we have a handle on all the problems. In the meantime, the school is waiting, the fellowship is waiting, the program is waiting, and asking questions and gathering information for any contingency is helpful. I’m not feeling like I have to rush anything. I think the school is going to be willing to follow my lead. Really, any and all information you guys shoot at me is helpful.</p>

<p>AMFS: probably my most controversial decision here is my clear preference not to let this opportunity go. I realize that this could be a natural tendency not to want to let the “old life” go for my son, or that it could be me attempting to shelter him from the natural consequences of his actions. I’m seeking out opinions about this from people I trust and I’m listening.</p>