Thanks @mamaedefamilia
S19 has sat in on classes and attended student panels and admissions meetings at almost every school we’ve visited. I agree that it’s a good way to see the school. He really likes the small classes with plenty of student interaction and has been happy with all of the classes he’s attended. That’s why I think his list is solid. No more overnights until acceptances!
I think it is easier for kids who don’t drink at all and have no interest in frats and little interest in parties to find their way and tribe at some of these schools with a party rep than it is for kids who want to be social but don’t want to drink into oblivion. The former just avoid it and find their tribe and do their own thing and are happy. The latter may feel more pressure, discomfort in some of the social situations. But do think this probably peaks first year and as kids form tighter friendships are able to be more secure in their choices. And sure, these schools are filled with super smart kids who excel in the classroom, but who sometimes (or regularly) make stupid choices in social situations.
@homerdog , if your son could design a perfect overnight, what would he want to do? What does he think his group will be doing in college? It might not be possible to experience that if he wants to enter video contest or sit around discussing world events, but if he has a desired group or activity, tell the schools that when arranging the visits.
My daughter’s host was a friend of hers from club team days. Nice girl but very shy. I think they did the parties and team activities because she just didn’t know what else to do with daughter for 2 days. She’d only been at the school for a few weeks (daughter visited fall of senior year, host was a freshman) and I don’t think the host was all that comfortable at the school (and later transferred).
If the school picks a host who is a sophomore or older, then the age difference between the visitor and the host becomes 2-3 years. Not ideal.
I would suggest looking into what there is to do socially on campus. How does your son like to spend his time outside of class now? If there are plenty of activities offered that he enjoys it would seem he could find like minded students to enjoy those activities with. Good luck to your son .
I agree with @leftrightleft and was about to post something similar. While the party “vibe” of the schools your son is considering may vary a bit, it probably won’t differ all that much. Pretty much all small LACs have a significant party atmosphere.
We have have twin freshmen at smaller LACs, and neither of them are currently interested in drinking or partying. Yes, it makes finding like-minded students a little more challenging - there’s no denying that. In the case of one of them, it’s been a little disappointing, but she’s finding her way and remaining upbeat. For the other one, her school has clearly spent a good deal of resources trying to ensure its students have more wholesome options, if that’s their preference. They have movie nights, comedians, off campus trips (go carts, haunted house, etc), and other planned activities. I can’t say enough good things about the place. I would see which of the schools on your list seem to have a similar commitment.
Whatever the reason, https://www.collegedrinkingprevention.gov/media/Journal/082-Presley.pdf mentions that “student involvement in athletics, whether partially involved or as a leader, is positively associated with heavy episodic drinking. Athletes were more likely to experience negative consequences of alcohol misuse and illicit substance use than nonathletes.”
Other college characteristics mentioned (- = less drinking, + = more drinking):
Of course, individual colleges may vary from the general trends.
My daughter’s coach enforced the rule that there was no drinking within 24 hours of a practice or 48 hours of a game. Basically they practiced every day except maybe a Sunday so the only night they could drink was Saturday, and even then they didn’t go to many wild drinking parties. My daughter was in a sorority but never went drinking with them. Sorority houses cannot have alcohol in them so I don’t think the ‘living in a sorority’ stat listed above is a ‘cause and result’ stat that should be considered. One girl on her team was suspended from the very first game they ever played because of drinking and it was a big lesson to all of them. She was the only senior who didn’t start every game for 4 years because of that ONE game.
Anyway, the NCAA and the coach can be a parent’s best friend for enforcing the rules. I know my daughter went drinking while in college, but did it on a much more low key basis, like having a beer on a Sunday at her boyfriend’s house while watching NFL football, or going to a party on the beach.
The truth is most of the top LACs are heavy party schools, especially the ones in rural or small town locations. So if you’re looking for a school where that isn’t the case, you have the wrong list of schools to begin with. However, he can find his tribe at many schools if you know what to look for. Seek out current students interested in the things he enjoys doing during free time and get the real scoop. Admissions will usually gladly assist with this. Also ask friends/acquaintances with students currently attending.
@itsgettingreal17 well that’s disappointing. We are looking for schools that fit all of his academic preferences and small schools are where it’s at. Not sure why an elite LAC is a party school any more than a top university would be. We spent a solid 15 months putting this list together traveling by air many times to visit schools and these are the ones he’s drawn to.
I appreciate all of the suggestions as to how he can get his questions answered about the parties. He is our oldest and, until this overnight, it didn’t really occur to me how in his face the drinking will be and that he will need to be prepared to be in the college environment. He can make his own decisions. I don’t think he’ll be swayed I just want him to know what he’s getting into and it would be best to know before he goes off in the fall so that he’s making an educated decision.
@ucbalumnus interesting. I guess the bro culture is alive and well with the athletes heading up the drinking. Bleh. Remind me to keep our D21 away from the big bro culture schools. I’ve always been a little more concerned about the NE schools since we are in the Midwest. I went to college with quite a few kids from the NE and, again not trying to paint everyone with the same brush, those kids seem a little faster than the kids who grew up in the Midwest. That’s just a general statement that doesn’t apply to everyone of course.
He’s not a nerd as was surmised of the XC runners above. In fact, we never bought a video game system and he’s uninterested in that stuff. Likes to go out and do things with his friends. Play frisbee. Go for a hike or a movie. Definitely likes to discuss ideas but I wouldn’t call him hyper intellectual.
Seems like a fair consensus that overnights are such a crapshoot as to be potentially problematic. So much rides on the fit of the prospective and the host. I think it’s a good mental preparation for the prospective to recognize up front that the fit with the host may or may not be there, and even if it’s not, that the host can still be a valuable resource for information that the prospective finds helpful if they are assertive enough to probe for it. It’s similar to getting a tour guide that you may not particularly like…they may not be someone you see yourself as being friends with, but they have still quite a bit of knowledge and can answer questions on topics you are interested in, even if they aren’t. One student (or even a group of students) does not = every student and certainly does not = the school.
And I tend to agree with @itsgettingreal17 …as I look at the list, it is made up of a lot of smaller, rural schools. To me, that often translates to “partying dominates the social scene” because there’s relatively little else to do outside of academics due to campus size and location (of course there will be plenty of students who do not heavily participate in the party scene on each of these campuses). Again, it’s going to be up to your son to recognize and acknowledge the variables in play due to his preference for these types of schools and accept that the advantages of what he sees in them are valuable and important enough to override negatives associated with the party scene.
I wish you luck in this process…it’s difficult to find a school that fits your student in every way and where finances and distance make sense, etc. It’s difficult, but certainly not impossible. As long as he is willing to be flexible enough to accept that he may not find 100% of what he is looking for, he’ll find his Goldilocks school. It’s out there! 
What many don’t realize is bigger doesn’t necessarily mean worse or larger classes or TAs, etc. What it definitely does undisputedly mean is more students and more options. More students means it’s easier to find your tribe. More options means more to do outside of drinking and drugs. As we say, you can make a big school smaller, but you can’t make a small school bigger. I knew my kid would not enjoy a small LAC based on my own experience*, but I took her to visit one so she could experience it first hand. It was not a fit. She did many overnights at the big party schools to which she applied and found exactly the type of people she likes to spend time with and didn’t find the drinking culture to be overwhelming as it is at many of the LACs. She attends a big party school and is having a great experience that does not include much drinking. In fact, there is too much to do and not enough time.
I’d recommend throwing in some mid-size universities to give him more options in the spring. There are many excellent schools that aren’t LACs that should fit his academic preferences as well as social and athletic preferences.
*I attended one of the elite LACs on your son’s list. The social scene is dominated by binge drinking and drugs (marijuana and hard drugs are easily obtained there).
Have you looked at the Unigo or Niche sites about the drinking/party atmosphere? I find those pretty spot on about my alma mater and my two college-aged children’s schools.
LACs can have drinking cultures due to size and location, but plenty of universities have plenty of drinking and parties too. They are certainly not immune. Vandy, Penn, Penn State, UVA, Duke, Miami are a few that quickly come to mind.
This is an interesting topic! I agree with everyone who said that at small LACs there’s all degrees of drinking/partying and students respect students’ choices not to party or to party very little.
My D and I have talked about this a lot since she started college at a top LAC. She did not go to parties at all in HS nor drink but she has decided to attend some parties in college. She likes to go out to dance with her friends and socialize, and I’m fine with that. She doesn’t like beer but she has told me she will sometimes have a can of hard cider which she knows is not a big deal to me or her Dad. (We traveled in Europe this past summer and she drank wine with dinner with us.)
Just some background on how what she’s told me about the party scene.
Honestly, I think with this generation of young people they are really not into peer pressure drinking and judging about it, along the lines of what the Grinnell student shared. Unless there’s some real outliers that I’m not aware of, the partying scene is not a factor that I think should weigh heavily in choosing a LAC b/c a student can find whatever social scene they want at any of them.
@itsgettingreal17 he’s got William and Mary and Vanderbilt on the list so those are his mid sized options. I agree that it would be easier to find like-minded students at those schools if only because the student body is larger. Lots of kids get into Vandy from our school with S19’s stats but it’s of course still considered a reach. He should get into William and Mary. We’ve thrown the idea of Tufts around. He may revisit that idea.
@homerdog a quick visual observation of the number of occupied seats in the library or the computer center during the peak “party” times can give you an idea of how many students are involved in other (than partying) activities
I PM’d the OP, but I just want to state here that I agree with @wisteria100. Based on the experiences of my friends, my son’s high school friends, and my employees and their children, drinking seems to occur on many campuses, regardless of size.
A large percentage of students in fraternities seems to have more of a “cultural” impact in which drinking parties seem to gain importance/ prevalence.
I think students can find their niche most places. There are students at every campus who do not drink alcohol. And even if you are hanging out with people who are drinking, you do not need to drink. It has been my family’s experience that there is not any external peer pressure; no one cares if you are drinking alcohol or not, just if you are friendly and a good listener and fun to be around.
As a fan of small liberal arts colleges and a lifelong nondrinker, I would hate for anyone to read this thread and think that small colleges are uncomfortable for nondrinkers. My family has not found that to be true, at all. There is a welcoming and inclusive environment at many of the top small liberal arts colleges.
^Editing is not working. Not pertinent to topic, but:
I tried to make this correction: “colleagues” is more accurate word than “employers,” since I do not employ people, just direct and supervise their work!
@TheGreyKing - yep, totally agree with all points.