<p>“It’s more that the EE is to be done on top of all the other course requirements and does not count for a grade in any course. S’s paper was 17 pages plus footnotes. His problem was that he wrote an analytical paper based on what he knows about the topic, not a research paper – and had to go back and find support for all of his assertions.”</p>
<p>Still, they can start and virtually finish it over the summer if they chose to do that.</p>
<p>It depends – he had three books to read, annotate and write about for English, a full unit of IB Bio due the first day of class, a packet of work for AP Stat, he volunteered FT part of the summer to complete CAS requirements and earn a student service award, visited a couple of colleges because we knew the IB schedule would preclude that during the year, had weight training and football practice, worked on college app essays, and we had the audacity to take a brief family vacation (and he brought along work). </p>
<p>He did write 12 pages over the summer, which was a lot more than many of his classmates. First draft of the EE was also due the first week of school. We were darned glad he finished the standardized testing junior year.</p>
<p>Part of what jammed him up this fall was that he had so little down time over the summer break that he was pretty fried before school even began.</p>
<p>Jumping back to the parent who has a kid interested in focusing in the sciences. Check out the HS program carefully. At some IB schools, they have ‘integrated science’ in grade 9 and 10 which is one semester each of general sci., bio, chem, physics. This leaves a student the opportunity to take only one IB science, or 2 if they drop fine arts. Yes, some schools have 1 year SL courses and other ways to work this out. But some course schedules make it impossible to get all the advanced science courses that you should have before college.</p>
<p>The reason that the Extended Essay is so difficult is not because of the essay itself, but because of the fact that it has to be done on top of everything else that a student is doing in classes. With all of the homework and assessments that are going on, it is difficult to research and write a good 4000 word paper. Another problem is that many students choose to write the Extended Essay on something that they do not really care about or on a subject in which they have no interest. Bear in mind that the Extended Essay can be written on nearly ANY topic, so it shouldn’t be as difficult as some make it. It is advisable to write the essay during the summer between Junior and Senior year, but procrastination is inevitable and most people will put it off (though at some schools there is a strict due date after summer break ends). And if a person is applying to colleges who do not give extra consideration or credit for IB courses, that student can save themselves some work and just skip out on the EE (which means they don’t get a diploma). Another part of the EE includes meeting with a supervisor for a total of 3-5 hours (I think) and improving the essay with several drafts. This just takes time and effort and the most difficult part is getting started. I am in the final stages of polishing up my EE and I only started working on it around mid-December. Though it is a lot of work, I didn’t find it too bad.</p>
<p>Karen, I was worried early on that IB forces kids to focus on one science instead of giving them a solid base in each of the three. D1, not heading toward a science major, chose chemistry as her science, and while she had Intro to Bio in grade 9 and the required Chem/Physics in grade 10, it would have been nice if she had a broader base in all rather than having to focus. </p>
<p>However, my science-oriented D2 doubled up in that area from sophomore year, when she took the first year of IB bio. Junior year she did first year of IB Chem and Physics, and now as a senior, she’s doing Higher Level Bio and Chem. All three IB sciences are two year-courses for a certificate (both HL and SL) but at least she got some basic physics in with one year and was able to choose which two sciences she wanted to continue with senior year.</p>
<p>I feel her preparation in Bio and Chem is excellent and I think she’ll be able to place into second-year courses in college. Physics, I’ve heard, is a bit weaker or different in IB than AP and she’ll have to strengthen that area when she gets to college.</p>
<p>She was able to take an arts class outside of IB for a semester, but it’s true that, they can’t take an IB course in the arts if they use their sixth subject to concentrate on another interest (a third language, doubling up on social studies or science, etc.)</p>
<p>As for the EE, it was not a big deal for D2 as she was able to base it on research she had done over the summer with a BU program.</p>
<p>Yep, at some schools you can do that. At others-- you can’t take the first year of IB courses as a senior (or a sophomore) because it conflicts with the year 2 courses you are taking. Some schools will flat out refuse to let frosh and sophs take any IB courses, even if it is the next course in the math or language sequence. </p>
<p>It’s kind of ironic-- an IB diploma is supposed to indicate consistency of coursework, but the 3 schools that I am familiar with have very different approaches in how they present the program.</p>
<p>We found that the pre-IB Bio and Chem classes at S2’s school gave good preparation. (Many students take the SAT-II Bio after 9th grade pre-IB Bio and score in the 700s.) S2 picked up AP Enviro soph year because he was interested in the subject – found it has been really useful for the first half of IB HL Bio.</p>
<p>I have heard mixed reviews on IB Physics. It doesn’t correlate too closely to the AP or the SAT-II.</p>
<p>My son took IB Physics HL and liked it a lot–but he didn’t take the AP test.</p>
<p>My D took IB Physics SL. Got a 5 on the IB exam and a 4 on the AP exam (with no extra studying). The AP 4 was worth 8 physics credits in college (the SL IB exam was worth nothing, even if she scored a 7).</p>
<p>^That’s interesting. Maybe IB Physics isn’t so different after all, if after just SL she could get a 4 on the AP with no extra study.</p>
<p>The IB is more rigorous than AP courses because IB, in addition to a course load that is just as rigorous as that of AP courses, one is forced to do an extended essay, CAS hours, and TOK (comparable to a philosophy class). It makes well-rounded individuals rather than subject-matter intensive students (which AP produces). Do the full IB!</p>
<p>“forced” is the keyword. I learned a lot more in advanced classes I actually enjoyed then ones that were just required for the curriculum.</p>
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<p>I skimmed this thread but didnt notice if anyone mentioned the “most rigourous” designation by the counselors at your school. It could hurt your son if the counselors only check that box for IB diploma kids. I’d verify how many AP classes he’d need to also be included in the “most rigorous” category. This is something that varies from school to school and can be important when a college is comparing students from the same highschool.</p>
<p>Good point, ShanghaiMom. At our high school, the counselors will automatically check the most rigorous box if you are an IB candidate. For everyone else, the schedule will be examined and a determination made. If you take all AP/Honors classes, that seems to also be considered most rigorous.</p>
<p>I’m not a parent- just a bored high school senior- but I had seriously considered IB and have many friends in IB, so I think I can add a perspective.</p>
<p>When my class presented with the opportunity to take IB (for my school, a recently added program), I, like many others, was inundated with meetings with the IB coordinator. She touted the program as an extra bonus for college admissions. However, at the time I was disappointed, since I was currently taking IB HL Math / Calc BC (a combined class), that I would be unable to achieve the full diploma. This prevented ~20 people ahead of track in math from taking IB.</p>
<p>I opted to take a combination of IB and AP classes. This year I’m pursuing HL certificates in History and English, and SL in foreign language, but also AP classes in Statistics, Computer Science and Physics C (E & M). I’m also dual-enrolled to take multivariable calculus. So far I’ve felt that this was the best balance, and heated discussion with my parents and counselor affirmed this decision. IB seems to do a good job at teaching humanities with proper emphases. The AP math and science seem to match up with what I experienced at the local college and offer a more in-depth, knowledge based class rather than the philosophical points of IB. I think that for a student looking to major in engineering or a physical science, AP offers a better curriculum. </p>
<p>I talked to my counselor and she said that she gave me the “most rigorous” denomination without reservations. Our school seems to employ more of a holistic approach where if you take the highest level classes across many disciplines, then the “most rigorous” denomination is given. I know my evidence is anecdotal but as long as your AP interests are diverse and not just the “easy” ones (Psych, etc.) then you should be able to make a convincing argument in your favor. </p>
<p>Cumulatively, the IB program is stressful for the people I’ve talked to. However, based on college admissions success, I don’t see a distinct advantage to those in the IB program. Most of the smart IB kids just to in-state University of Michigan, and I know one at WUSTL and one at Harvey Mudd from the past two years. Maybe because of its newness to the school our program only has about 15 students in the entire grade in the full program. Personally I think that the difficulty of IB compared to AP is more dependent on your teacher than the course material. I have had IB classes easier than AP classes, AP classes easier than IB, and even a rigorous non-IB honors class taught by the IB coordinator that was harder (for me) than a class fulfilling AP and IB HL requirements. Your results may vary though, take the third with a grain of salt.</p>
<p>Obviously I can’t attest to my acceptances or rejections to validate my opinion but I don’t feel that missing the IB program has been detrimental at all. Just make sure that the absence of IB isn’t encouraging deficiencies in certain subjects or community involvement.</p>
<p>Tandem – you’ve done a VERY nice job of finding the courses where IB is strong (at least in most US programs) and in AP courses to find the level of challenge that works for you. Goes to show that students whose schools who offer both AP and IB from the menu can get an excellent education.</p>
<p>If your grades and scores line up well and your essays are as well-written as your post, you ought to have some fine choices come spring.</p>
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<p>This was my son’s experience as well. He looked very seriously at IB and ultimately choose not to do it but had many friends who did. Most of them felt like it wasn’t worth the stress and extra work and didn’t help them with college admissions. In fact, of all the kids that got into top 20 or Ivy league schools in my son’s class - none were in IB. Those types of kids are so exceptional to begin with that they don’t need a bump-up from the IB program.</p>
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<p>That was our family’s experience as well. Of course, admissions results are only one part of how to decide whether to do IB or not do IB.</p>
<p>I agree with last 2 posters. My son, with my blessing, did AP and dual-enrollment. The IP program was at a different school, and would have been a headache for transportation. Plus, he could not have joined any afterschool activities. As a sci/math person, the IP program did not fit his needs. Only 2 of his friends joined the program, and both left in a year. I think you have to look at the program and see if you would like it. In terms of rigor or admissions, it won’t make any difference.</p>
<p>Agree that IB can be very stressful. End of first semester senior year was not pretty at all. However, S2, now a college freshman, reports that he has found his IB program prepared him rather well for the challenges of college. Suspect that preparation will really show up next term when he takes Philosophy as his second semester English requirement. (He took SL Philosophy, TOK and HL English.)</p>
<p>As S told admitted students and their parents on tours of his program, IB may or may not get you into an Ivy League school – but it will certainly give you the tools to get an Ivy League education from any college in the country.</p>
<p>College admissions was not a factor for S in deciding whether to attend his IB program. If he’d wanted to take a ton of APs, he could have done so at our local HS, and had a higher GPA to show for it. What he wanted was an intensely challenging program with other students who were similarly committed.</p>