Duke or Williams

Colleges and Universities A-Z Williams College
1

<p>Hi!</p>

<p>I am a high school senior who has committed to Williams but was recently taken off of the waitlist at Duke. I have visited both schools and like each one tremendously. I would study biomedical engineering at Duke and most likely biology and physics at Williams. </p>

<p>Although I am a math and science person, I love the social sciences and humanities as well. (Side note: I have not had any experience in the field of engineering but I think it might be a fascinating subject to study. I probably won't pursue biomedical engineering after college since I am interested in medical school.)</p>

<p>I am enormously conflicted between these two schools since, although the environments could not be more different, I can see myself enjoying both schools. This is the classic liberal arts college vs university question.</p>

<p>I am leaning towards each school for specific reasons. Duke offers the option of engineering, a much more rigorous research setting, a medical school on campus, and a much less isolated campus with more things to do outside of campus than at Williams (and also more food options).</p>

<p>Meanwhile, Williams possesses a liberal arts education that seems like it might be more intensive than that at Duke and the school also allows math/science students to explore much more of the humanities and social sciences. The professors at Williams are all focused on teaching as well. However, for me, coming from a suburban area, I worry that Williams might be too isolated from everything (in terms of things to do and also food options.)</p>

<p>At this point in time, I am considering medical school after college so the topic of which school is better at sending students to medical school might also play a factor.</p>

<p>I think that I would be more comfortable living at Duke than at Williams but I also feel that Williams's academics are stronger, which is a huge factor in what I am looking for in a college.</p>

<p>Duke is also offering around $15000 more in financial aid.</p>

<p>If you have any suggestions or advice on what to do in this situation, I would greatly appreciate it.</p>

<p>Thanks so much,
Conflicted</p>

2

<p>How important is financial aid in your decision? 15k is quite a bit of money you won’t have to pay. For what it’s worth, you might want to contact the FinAid office at Williams and see if they can offer you a better package. </p>

<p>But besides that, you seem to have the pros and cons figured out perfectly. I don’t think anyone can answer this question as well as you can, as you have made the differences evident. Do you want to do summer research? Then Duke. Do you value intimate class sizes with many opportunities to become close with professors? Then Williams. It all comes down to what you value in your education, as there is ultimately no “wrong” decision.</p>

<p>Also, Williams is definitely isolated, but don’t let preconceived notions get the better of your judgement. Vibrant communities like Williams will nary have a quiet, unentertaining weekend, and I can assure you that you won’t find yourself bored, twiddling your thumbs and contemplating heavy alcoholism as a result of your isolation. With the intense academics, superb community and breathtaking setting, that just won’t happen. I’m not sure about at Duke, but Williams has great hiking and winter sports opportunities. </p>

<p>One characteristic that is overwhelmingly evident at Duke, though, is the D1 culture. Duke’s a huge sports school, and people literally camp out to get tickets to Blue Devil basketball games. Do you mind having a campus enthralled by sports that they don’t actually play, or would you rather go to Williams where passion for sports is found in playing them? That’s not to say you can’t be athletic at Duke, but such a huge, multi-million dollar sports program certainly influences campus culture, which is an important (if not deciding) factor for many students.</p>

3

<p>I know of one young man with the same choice who chose Williams with no regrets, but in your case, I think Duke is the winner. It sounds like you actually prefer Duke and the difference in FA is substantial. </p>

<p>The difference in the academics does not seem worthy of an extra $60,000, especially when Duke offers a more intense, pre-professional major that Williams does not.</p>

4

<p>Unless Duke is offering merit aid, something must be wrong with the Williams’ aid offer. Perhaps this is over 4 years? Send in a copy of the Duke offer to FA with a polite request for a review.</p>

5

<p>I agree with the above, especially about the difference in cost. </p>

<p>Only adding an addendum to Gratisfaction’s comment about summer research:</p>

<p>Although I don’t know how easy it is to get a summer research position at Duke, I can say, based on my son’s and his friends’ experiences, it has been very easy for them to get a summer position at Williams. </p>

<p>Many science faculty are on campus in the summer. Others are doing research in other places, such as NIST, where Williams students are working with them. Other students are at REUs unaffiliated with Williams.</p>

<p>I do know that students at Williams are working directly with the professors. I would say that students doing senior theses are treated like grad students.</p>

<p>My guess is that it would be easier to get a research assistant position at Williams, considering there would be less competition for positions simply because there are fewer students than at Duke.</p>

<p>And, if you’re interested in Mathematics, there’s a highly well-regarded summer program at Williams. It’s open to non-Williams students, but the majority of the participants are from Williams.</p>

6

<p>I know a lot about both colleges. I am surprised about the financial aid being less at Williams. Typically financial aid is better at Williams than at Duke, but I know Duke recently changed their financial aid structure. </p>

<p>I do believe academics at Williams are stronger, especially Math and Humanities. But, obviously not for engineering. You seem the type of student that may not want to box yourself into a specific major yet especially if planning pre-med. </p>

<p>You are correct about places to eat. Durham is becoming a real “foodie” place with a burgeoning night life but still not too much going on in the city compared to others. </p>

<p>Feel free to message me with questions about either but I know more about Duke.</p>

7

<p>Firstly, I would choose Duke, especially if you’re going into Biomedical engineering. With an undergraduate degree in any engineering, you are practically guaranteed a job in the market incase medical school does not work out. This type of financial stability would be harder to achieve if you go to Williams.
Second, the extra $60,000 in your pocket is worth something in itself.
The atmosphere around Duke should be much more comfortable for you since you’ve grown up in a suburban area. If you had already visited Williamstown, you’ve seen that there’s nothing there except for the college. The closest store is three miles away from the campus! Winters are relatively snowy and cold. Unless you love freezing temperatures, I wouldn’t recommend going there. It’s much easier and cheaper to get into and out of Duke from anywhere in the United States.</p>

8

<p>Williams’ academics aren’t “stronger” than Duke’s. I’m not even sure how you would measure something like that. Williams is more undergraduate focused than Duke but its not like you’re comparing Williams and UCLA here. Duke has a reputation for being undergraduate centered amongst well known research universities.</p>

9

<p>While Durham is certainly bigger than Williamstown, it also has its downsides (some of which came out in the whole Duke Lacrosse scandal – or more accurately, non-scandal, in the end), namely, a very big town-gown racial / class divide. But the only people who say that there is “nothing” in Williamstown, like Cindy1 does below, don’t know anything about the town. It is a small town, but as small towns go, is incredibly vibrant, particularly in culture. It has two fantastic art museums (one of which, the Clark, has a world-class collection), an art house movie theater, two great coffee / desert shops, two good pizza places, Thai, Indian, Mexican, Vietnamese eateries, a few higher-end restaurant options, a great deli, a few bars, two golf courses (including the best college course in the country), and within a five-ten minute drive, MassMoca (the largest contemporary art museum in teh country, which has other music and event programming as well) and ski slopes. And yes, there are “stores” in downtown, including a book store, a record store, a few outdoors clothing stores, a small grocery, a pharmacy, a newstand, and various others. Williamstown is not a place like, say, Gambier, Ohio (where KEnyon is) where the town truly was the college – there are a lot of other things going on, albeit, again, in a rural, small-town setting. And pretty much anything you really need you can find on Water or Spring Streets. </p>

<p>For me, the biggest difference between Williams and Duke was the campus culture. I just didn’t love the vibe of the people at Duke, it seemed to attract a sort of Princeton / Washington and Lee / UVA type which was a bit different from Williams, where I found the people a little quirkier, less snobby, and more diverse, whereas Duke has more of a southern, fratty, feel to me. But that is just my personal view. IF you love Duke and feel more comfortable on that campus, there is no reason not to go there, particularly if they give you more financial aid. (Similarly, there is no reason to choose Duke over Williams if you feel more comfortable as an Eph, because the concerns you express about research are truly non-concerns – Williams provides unbelievably undergraduate research opportunities in math and science). So go where you think you will be happiest, your future will be bright coming from either place and there is no material difference in prestige or in things like med school acceptance that should dissuade you from attending the school you prefer.</p>

10

<p>williamsorduke, you should check out the following post from a recent Duke BME graduate.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1340825-painful-decision-put-off-life-passion-bme-affordable-lac.html#post14392596[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1340825-painful-decision-put-off-life-passion-bme-affordable-lac.html#post14392596&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

11

<p>If Williams won’t increase its aid, my advice is to go to Duke and buy yourself a car with the difference.</p>

12

<p>Hunt, go to Duke so you can buy a car? Maybe go to Duke so you wouldn’t have to take out loans and many other good reasons to go to Duke. I assume the OP needs the aid or he/she wouldn’t be getting it. My family, who gets more generous need based aid from Williams compared to other schools certainly can’t use the difference to buy a car.</p>

13

<p>He’s going to have 15 grand that he wouldn’t have otherwise if he goes to Duke. Thus, my somewhat facetious suggestion that he use the difference to buy a car. Maybe he can find a nice used car in Durham–my wife’s cost $800 when she was there a while back.</p>

14

<p>If there is a 15K difference in aid, that is not 15K that you can have to spend. In our family, that is 15K that you don’t have to borrow. Speaking for my family which gets financial aid, we don’t have “extra” with better financial aid. Don’t think we could afford a $800 car with repairs, insurance, and gas costs.</p>

15

<p>If you were prepared to shell out 15 grand MORE for a different college–even if you were going to borrow the money–you could certainly afford to buy a used car if you didn’t have to do that. You might still think it wasn’t the best use of the money of course, although it might be reasonable for a student in Durham to have a car.</p>

16

<p>teensy corrections to Ephman’s post above (#9) (re: Williams) : The pharmacy has closed, although Hart’s remains open as a sundries shop. There is a new pizza place on Spring Street (as of 2012): New York style. (This makes two places within easy walking distance of the college, plus a third place within a very short walk of the college.)</p>