<p>Duke is not better than Berkeley in grad. I don't think anyone is arguing that.</p>
<p>What evidence do you have to argue that Duke is not better than Berkeley in terms of undergrad?</p>
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YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU TALKING ABOUT!!!!DO YOUR RESEARCH...I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME DATA THAT PROVE YOUR STATEMENT.
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<p>And...........</p>
<p>and... </p>
<p>are YOU offering anything aside from your opinion?</p>
<p>Your 'name" says ia all...I'm not going to argue with you ...and your link don't prove nothing...University of Notre Dame in front of berkeley you got to be kiding....</p>
<p>the_prestige gets more crap over his name. lol</p>
<p>and pateta, don't use that as an out. why not trying to provide some support for your argument instead?</p>
<p>If you are going to stay in the US, pick Duke.</p>
<p>If you think you might want to work anywhere else in the world, (and want potential employers to have heard of the school you graduated from) pick Berkeley.</p>
<p>Berkeley:Berkeley's academic programs have been considered among the best in the world since the end of World War II, and surveys such as those by the National Research Council and the American Council on Education have praised the university for its broad range of academic strengths, not just in mathematics, science and engineering, but in the arts, humanities and social sciences as well.</p>
<p>Berkeley is an exceptionally comprehensive university, offering over 7,000 courses in nearly 300 degree programs. The university awards over 5,500 bachelor's degrees, 2,000 master's degrees, 900 doctorates, and 200 law degrees each year. The student-faculty ratio is 15.5 to 1, among the lowest of any major public university, and the average class consists of 30 students (not including discussion sections led by graduate student instructors). However, introductory classes consisting of hundreds of students are not unusual; oppositely, some classes have but a few students enrolled.</p>
<p>Berkeley's faculty includes 221 American Academy of Arts and Sciences Fellows, 83 Fulbright Scholars, 139 Guggenheim Fellows, 87 members of the National Academy of Engineering, 132 members of the National Academy of Sciences, 8 Nobel Prize winners, 3 Pulitzer Prize winners, 84 Sloan Fellows, and 7 Wolf Prize winners.[24]. 61 Nobel Laureates are associated with the university, the sixth most of any university in the world. Twenty have served on its faculty. (see list of distinguished Berkeley faculty)</p>
<p>Berkeley has graduated more students who go on to earn doctorates than any other university in the United States[citation needed], and its enrollment of National Merit Scholars was third in the nation until 2002, when participation in the National Merit program was discontinued.[25] Berkeley's acceptance rate to medical school of 63.4% is among highest of all public universities.[26]</p>
<p>UC Berkeley has nurtured a number of key technologies associated with the early development of the Internet, Free software movement and the Open Source Software movement. The original Berkeley Software Distribution, commonly known as BSD Unix, was assembled in 1977 by Bill Joy, a graduate student in the computer science department. Joy also developed the original version of vi. PostgreSQL emerged from faculty research begun in the late 1970s. Sendmail was developed at Berkeley in 1981. BIND (Berkeley Internet Name Domain package) was written by a team of graduate students around the same time period. The Tcl programming language and the Tk GUI toolkit were developed by faculty member John Ousterhout in 1988. SPICE and espresso, popular tools for IC Designers, were invented at Berkeley under the direction of Professor Donald Pederson. The RAID and RISC technologies were both developed at Berkeley under David Patterson.
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_University_of_California%2C_Berkeley_alumni%5B/url%5D">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_University_of_California%2C_Berkeley_alumni</a>
<a href="http://www.berkeley.edu/about/honors/%5B/url%5D">http://www.berkeley.edu/about/honors/</a>
i feel lazy...i will post more later</p>
<p>Thanks for that $1 Wiki cut and paste job.</p>
<p>...and, what do things like the National Research Council have to do undergraduate quality?</p>
<p>(btw, your name says it all as well... double zero... i couldn't have summed it up better myself)</p>
<p>Wow pateta...all that, and Duke's undergrads are still completely superior to those that attend Cal...go figure</p>
<p>I think this discussion has come down to people who acknowledge the facts, and people who for some reason think Berkeley is a great undergrad (which it is, but not compared to any legit top 10 school)</p>
<p>Well..now do your cut and paste let's see duke....</p>
<p>"If you think Berkeley undergrad is as good as Duke undergrad, you obviously haven't seen any data about either school and are just making things up."</p>
<p>lol This entire thread makes me laugh. Everyone states his/her opinion as fact. Face it, everyone: there is no "clear choice," because if there were, then there wouldn't be so much contention. Basically: Berkeley is an awesome choice, as is Duke. No matter what, you're going to get the same excellent education. I guarantee it. Neither is inferior to the other (I agree that often those who find that one is better than the other have the "US News disease"). They're unique, but it can be said: they're both exceptional. It simply depends on how you take advantage of what each has to offer.</p>
<p>The question is: how do you choose? This is where other factors come in: price, location, fit, etc. For me, Berkeley wins in that area. But then again, that's just me. =)</p>
<p>"I think this discussion has come down to people who acknowledge the facts, and people who for some reason think Berkeley is a great undergrad (which it is, but not compared to any legit top 10 school"Ok where is the fact that prove that duke is better...talking talking but no facts..USNEWS??Blow me...<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=228347%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=228347</a>
wait a minute it says "USNWR ('07-91) Avg Rank + WSJ Feeder + Revealed Preferences "ohh so it was made by USNEWS ...no more comments</p>
<p>Pateta, just look at some of my previous posts. Duke has much, much stronger students, better professional placement, students go onto win more prestigious scholarships etc. Duke is a better school RIGHT NOW. Maybe in the 60s or 70s Berkeley was better, but not today. Too bad. </p>
<p>And we are talking about undergrad, not grad, I guess since there is NO evidence on Cal being as good as Duke for undergrad, Berkeley supporters continue bringing up grad programs and historic achievements by researchers rather than focusing on undergrad. On contrast, Duke is by far superior to Cal for undergrad and pretty much everything relevant points to that.</p>
<p>KyleDavid, there are FACTS available. The FACTS are that Duke has much stronger undergrads and sends its undergrads to better gradschools. That is a FACT, and not an opinion. Sorry.</p>
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ohh so it was made by USNEWS ...no more comments
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<p>As was that link about the top public universities that you just PM'd me. ;)</p>
<p>"Pateta, just look at some of my previous posts. Duke has much, much stronger students, better professional placement, students go onto win more prestigious scholarships etc"All i hear is crap crap crap i want my opinnion to be the right one....</p>
<p>"As was that link about the top public universities that you just PM'd me" That's what you like right??and even there i made my point...</p>
<p>And for my triple thread i want to apologise to the creator of this thread for all this STUPID arguing..SO to make some poster and the creator of the USNEWS ranking happy ..go to Duke university for undergrad and berkeley for grad</p>
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That's what you like right??and even there i made my point
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<p>I have no predisposition towards any specific ranking. However, it seems silly for you to condemn someone when they use USNews to support themselves yet you do the same. </p>
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go to Duke university for undergrad and berkeley for grad
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<p>My sentiments exactly.</p>
<p>"KyleDavid, there are FACTS available."</p>
<p>I'm sure there are FACTS available.</p>
<p>"The FACTS are that Duke has much stronger undergrads and sends its undergrads to better gradschools."</p>
<p>Why don't you show us facts that actually mean something?</p>
<p>"That is a FACT, and not an opinion. Sorry."</p>
<p>Your perception of the difference between "fact" and "opinion" is distorted. Fine tune it a little, methinks.</p>
<p>If you really think that Berkeley is substandard ... I'm sorry, but you're very uninformed. Few would agree with you. =)</p>
<p>Furthermore: so far, no magazine, university, or any such organization has been able to provide a way to measure the quality of a university. The only way to know is to actually observe it; you're relying on statistical proxies. The number of scholarships a student body may receive doesn't mean that they are superior to another student body, as much as you'd like to think. </p>
<p>I'd suggest you express your opinion less vehemently; not only does it make you seem rash and uninformed, but it makes debate with you especially unpleasant. Accept that others will have differing opinions and, more importantly, that your facts don't have as much substance as you find they do. (As an added note: Berkeley beats Duke in various "facts," but again, that doesn't indicate as much as one would think.)</p>