EA Michigan OOS - Any Hope For Me?

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

White male, US, East Coast - all the unfortunate boxes
Private prep school, super competitive, good record of admissions to UM
No UM connection
College counselor has sent “likely letter” saying UM is my first choice - admit me, I’m coming

LSA/English major or similar

Unweighted GPA 3.7
My high school does not rank
SAT: 790 verbal, 710 math

APs:
APUSH - 5
AP US Gov - 5
APES - 4
Eng Lit - 4
Eng Lang - 5
AP 3D Art - 5
Taking now: AP Art History, AP Comp Gov, Honors Italian

Negatives: not a math/science guy and this is obvious by my courses. No physics, slower math track (only up to pre-calc), no science or math APs other than APES. I am an English/History guy.

Awards
All League Football, Wrestling, various wrestling awards at regional level, football bowl champions, Coach’s Award (Football), Tri Varsity Athlete Award, High Honor roll every year.

Extracurriculars
Prefect, Varsity football captain, Varsity football (4 years). Varsity wrestling (4 years), Varsity track, Founder of literary magazine, Contributor to non-fiction school publication, Big Brother, Leadership Council, Student Government Vice President, summer jobs (manual labor - various), internship (writing/researching for novelist during school year and summer), writing center tutor.

Essays/LORs/Other
Very strong essays - did not write about sports (!), very strong recs. but my school is full of superstars and I’m not top 10% in class. Probably top 20-25% but school does not rank.

Cost Constraints / Budget
No constraint.

Schools
UM- Ann Arbor - strong first choice, applied EA
UVA - EA
BC - RD
Notre Dame - RD

2

Certainly you have a chance but you know your shortfall - math.

At a private school your GC is best to advise.
While you’re a great student with a great background, you’ve listed four difficult to get into school.

Hopefully you have a safety…just in case you need it.

Ps a 710 math sat. I’d say you’re a math guy.

Good luck.

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thank you. GC says it’s a target, not a reach - but these days, anything can happen. Holding my breath.

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I go back to my comment - hopefully you didn’t just apply to four schools.

Even if a target, these are all difficult to get into - and you are out of state.

Target doesn’t equal 100% admission. It equals likely.

You need a safety - your in-state flagship or some other sure bet.

Many kids apply to only targets and reaches - and many kids end up scrambling after they go 0 for.

I’m not saying you won’t get into 1-4 of these. I’m saying - I’d be awfully nervous if I didn’t have a back up just in case - because you chose four to 36 schools - and admissions wise, all out kick their coverage - meaning - they’re not easy.

You didn’t identify your state - but if it’s not too late (and it is for some), I hope you added your state flagship.

If you get turned down to all, there’s always Arizona and Alabama amongst others - but you’d need to check merit deadlines.

Not saying you will but your rank is lower (although you go private and that impacts) - and you never know.

Every student needs a Reach, Match, and Safety. At least a Match and Safety. If your GC says all four are targets - or two are reaches and two are targets - no matter what, you’re missing the safety - and that’s my concern - unless you applied to others not listed here.

5

Yes, I have a couple of safeties that I am not remotely excited about. Wisconsin (semi-safety, not a lock, per GC, can be funky) and SMU. Also applied to Wake F. There is nothing in my state that I would consider (CT). If disaster strikes, then I’ll go to SMU and attempt a transfer.

6

OK - this isn’t good.

You need a safety you love - or you never should have applied.

SMU is wonderful. Wake is on par with your other 4 reputationally.

UCONN is a fine school - and there are many other fantastic publics - Wisconsin…just depends on your needs.

I’d find a public (or private) you could love - and with great merit.

Check out Bama (very geographically diverse - and you’d score big $$) and Arizona…I mention them because you’re not too late!!!

Guess what -

many kids go to their dream school and hate it - have a bad roomie or profs they don’t understand.

Many kids go to what they didn’t think was their dream school - meet their BFF, spouse, whatever.

There are myriad schools out there you can excel at - much more than four.

Please don’t go anywhere with the idea of transferring. It’s not easy to re-set or go to where others already have their connections, etc.

If you get to a school and love it, it’s great. And SMU is wonderful if that’s a fallback- which for many it’s not.

I know someone who just chose it over Emory…so.

It’s not about rank…it’s about you and what you do while you’re there - the opportunity you take - whether it’s UCONN (a great school), Southern Connecticut State, or Notre Dame.

Good luck.

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I very much appreciate your input and your taking the time to reply to me. Thank you. My mom loves SMU and says the kids get great internships and jobs (I would try for honors track); powerful alumni network. My issue is the super entitled atmosphere - way too much money and frankly a lot of cocaine! I like to party and plan to join a frat but the reputation among my peers is that it’s out of control and pretty superficial at SMU. But if I don’t get in to UM, I’ll be looking at it more closely. Nobody from my school goes to UConn - as in nobody, ever, unless they are on scholarship and looking to continue that situation in a sport. I know that sounds snobby (especially given what I just said about SMU!) but to spend 12 years at a super competitive private boys school and then go to UConn just does not add up for me. But I get your points. Who knows - I could end up loving SMU, and my mom could be right - she usually is!! She also says it is trending up and it will be one of those “hard to get into” before too long. I am also going to apply to Florida (Gainesville), I think - not too late for that and it is interesting to me. I will absolutely take your advice and check out Alabama and Arizona.

9

The overall acceptance rate to Michigan last admissions cycle, the Class of 2025, was 20%. The OOS acceptance rate was roughly 3-4 % points lower than that. So, Michigan isn’t a target. It’s a reach.

Additionally, the average uwGPA for an admitted student is 3.9. So your 3.7 uwGPA makes acceptance to Michigan a much “tougher hill to climb.”

Lastly, the lack of course rigor on the math/science side of the equation may hurt you, but I don’t know how that will factor in the decision, since you plan to major in English. uwGPA and course rigor are the two biggest factors in admission according to the CDS.

I wish you the best of luck.

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Too late for UF. You can apply but won’t get in since you missed priority.

SMU has always had a top rep. I think rank it’s fallen a tad - not sure if it’s on it’s way up.

For my money, the schools on the “upswing” are UGA and FSU - but no one really knows. Well UF is too - statistically now the same with UNC - if you trust the US News.

You’ll be fine - I’m just saying - all these schools have studs - all of them.

So don’t let your head get too big.

My son chose Bama for engineering over Purdue. Makes zero sense. He had a 4.6 and 34 ACT - oh, and he’s getting his a$$ kicked. You won’t be better than the rest - I promise you.

Well you could be - but that’s up to you.

SMU is a great name and great school - and if you want an internship and you put in the work to find one, you’ll find one. If you don’t, you won’t - whether you are at Michigan, UND or elsewhere.

In the end, it’s up to you.

Good luck.

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Does your school have a history of sending kids with your type of stats to UM? It seems that for OOS students, UM may target wealthy schools where full pay students are much more likely. My son’s high school does send many high stat kids to UM, according to Naviance. But a 3.7UW from his high school wouldn’t likely make the cut. It was the only university that asked for our family income in its college-specific portion of the common app.

12

To follow-up on uwGPA, according to the 2020-2021 CDS, where there were 65,000 apps submitted, not the 2021-2022 admissions cycle record of 80,000 apps submitted, 86% of the admits had a uwGPA of 3.75 or higher. I’d strongly suspect this % increased last year with the record amount of apps.

The UC and CSU apps here in CA ask for family income info.

13

My school sends athletes and also a number of academic admits - they definitely like my school. They’ve taken kids with very similar stats: lower SATs and maybe the same or a whisker higher GPAs, similar leadership/ECs. I just realized my math SAT is incorrect above - not that it really matters - it was a 720, not a 710, but I put it down correctly on my applications at least! LOL.

14

I am hoping/praying that my essays will catch their attention and outweigh the on the cusp GPA (3.73 to be exact though I’ve read they recalculate it and so I’m not sure where it will end up once they do that). And my SATs are solid, though not perfect, and I know they value GPA more. The other issue is I’m competing against other kids from my school first, and they’ve already taken 2 athletes and there is one academic admit who is a bit stronger than I am. However in the past they have taken as many as six from my school - so there is a chance. I’m steeled for a deferral and will wait it out and see if I can slither in later. Remember, my GC also sent that letter saying it is my first choice and if admitted I’ll pull all other applications immediately - he said that gives me “an edge, not a boost”. But I’ll take any edge, however slight. Yes, I’m full pay.

15

That’s perfect! Michigan’s admissions has almost always required patience.

Your SAT’s are more than solid, they’re fantastic! A 1,510 is just below the 75% mark (1,520-1,530). The other piece is the essays and reco’s. Those factors are considered “important.”

What I can tell you, from culling the stats of admits from this site, the 3.70 uwGPA was the unofficial demarcation line of potential admittance and rejection. Again, from stats posted on this site, which skews higher than the general population of applicants.

BTW, EC’s look strong to me. 4 years of three varsity sports is just awesome IMO.

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Thank you very much.

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As someone familiar with both Wisconsin and Michigan, I am not sure why you discount applying to Wisconsin. Yes, UM has higher ranked programs in general, but Wisconsin is a very strong state flagship, and Madison is a flat out better college town, and on a good day, the UW sports are better than UM’s - not football this year, obviously.

18

I think you make a valid point for OP in light of the comments made about UCONN and SMU.

OP goes to a private school and sounds like is trying to keep up with the joneses….is falling for the hype or marketing of rankings, etc.

There’s many at Wisconsin, SMU, UCONN and other ranked schools that could be at Michigan but chose other schools for a reason.

OP will have bosses that went to W Michigan, Southern Illinois, Middle TN State or even who don’t have a degree.

Op needs to find the right fit….not the name that’s done a better job working it’s way up the US News page. After all you need to spend four years there, day after day.

Op. U need to be happy. Many will come from Michigan and be successful and many will not. Same as any other school.

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Not discounting it at all, and if I get in I might well end up there. I’m just not as excited about it as I am about Michigan - but I would actually prefer Wisconsin over SMU, honestly. Wisconsin very popular around here and increasingly so.

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By what metric?

Or hockey, Michigan is in 1st, Wisconsin is last right now.

The Michigan men lost to UCLA in the NCAA’s Elite 8 last season. How about rowing or gymnastics, because Michigan wins B1G championships and a national championship (gymnastics)? Baseball? Just a couple years ago, Michigan lost Vanderbilt in the World Series.

On the other side of the coin, the Wisconsin women’s v-ball team did win the National Championship by beating Nebraska just a few weeks ago.

Overall programs? Here’s the last 5 years of D1 Director’s Cup standings:

2020-2021 Michigan #3, Wisconsin #37
2019-2020 N/A (Pandemic)
2018-2019 Michigan #2, Wisconsin #16
2017-2018 Michigan #6, Wisconsin #22
2016-2017 Michigan #6, Wisconsin #16
2015-2016 Michigan #3, Wisconsin #27

That’s the only measure of entire (20 men’s and women’s sports) athletic program that I’m aware of.