ED or not ED...

Parents Forum
1

<p>That is the question. </p>

<p>Hi parents, I'm a new poster so please be gentle with me! I just finished my junior year in a well-ranked NY suburban public school. And wow, this website is really intimidating-I just started to think about applying to college.</p>

<p>This is not a chances thread, but I guess it's probably good to give a brief summary of my record for reference. I have a 3.8, 2310 SAT I scores, and above 750 on all my SAT IIs. I'm really interested in foreign languages and classics and have a few leadership/founding positions in their corresponding clubs.</p>

<p>So basically, I have a general list of some ideas for schools for me. They include: </p>

<p>Georgetown
Yale
Princeton
Northwestern
SUNY Binghamton
Brown
Dartmouth
UVA
UPenn
Duke
SUNY Stonybrook</p>

<p>I know my preference would be a medium sized (4000-6000 undergrads) school in the north or southeast with a strong community atmosphere, lots of undergrad support, and a good languages and classics program, especially since I am interested in foreign policy and diplomacy. The only problem is, I've heard all these conflicting opinions about whether ED helps or not and I'm worried that if I don't apply ED somewhere, my chances of getting in will be lower, but if I do apply ED somewhere, I'm limiting my choices! I guess I'm just really scared of making the wrong decision here. Can anyone provide some insight on whether ED/SCEA/EA was the right decision for them?</p>

<p>Thanks so much for your help!!</p>

2

<p>You can approach this rationally.</p>

<p>First, ask yourself how important financial aid or merit aid will be to your family, and how much difference $4-5,000/year would make in your choice. If the answer is "a lot", then you should probably forget about ED. Your only decision will be whether to apply EA to Yale or to Georgetown. The only downside to either is giving up the chance to apply to the other, but you should be able to make that decision. Note that it's not at all clear that there is any particular advantage to applying to Yale EA, and the numbers don't suggest much of an advantage at Georgetown, either.</p>

<p>If you can consider ED as well as EA, the next step is to ask yourself how important to you your Russian-roulette chance of getting into Yale or Princeton is. There is an apparent advantage to applying ED to any of your five ED schools, or EA to Georgetown. If you know you would pick any of them over Yale or Princeton, you should probably go for it. If you would think hard about maybe picking any of them over Yale or Princeton, you should probably go for it. If not, you're back to Yale vs. Georgetown EA. </p>

<p>Of your five ED schools, all of them are pretty much at the same selectivity level, except for Northwestern, which is only a little easier to get into. I suspect that the ED advantage may be greatest at Northwestern, Dartmouth and Penn, but I can't prove that, and I don't think the differences are big enough to matter anyway. If any one of them would be your natural first choice (or close second/third to Yale or Princeton), by all means apply ED (or, if Georgetown would be in that position, apply EA there).</p>

<p>One other comment: your list doesn't exactly scream "classics". If that's really important to you, you may want to refine things a bit.</p>

3

<p>Ditto, JHS's advice. (I thought Georgetown had a strong classics program???)</p>

<p>Penn was at one time notorious for "ED boost", the admissions dean was very forthright in wanting to admit students who wanted Penn, don't know if that is still true. I truly think my D got an admissions boost to Dartmouth by applying ED, but she is "from very far away", so the fact that she was committing to attend from a different region of the country, might have carried more weight than a committment to attend from the NE.</p>

<p>The bigger question is are you sure you want to attend one of these schools much more than the others? That should drive your decision. Dart was a definite first choice for D, she struggled with 2 & 3, particularly since 2 of her next 3 schools had EDII, and the other did not. I encouraged her to get her materials together, and wait as long as possible before making an irrevocable decision - in the end she did not have to make that choice. There is a strong tendency to come prefer a school with ED just to get over with it - resist that urge, there isn't enough of an ED boost to end up at a school you hate, particularly if your parents are paying $50K year for you to be miserable.</p>

<p>An aside, D hs several classics major friends, and they seem very pleased with their education, although D (a history major) said many of them preferred Greek to Roman classes.</p>

4

<p>"First, ask yourself how important financial aid or merit aid will be to your family, and how much difference $4-5,000/year would make in your choice."</p>

<p>Try $47k over four years. (That's what it was to us.)</p>

5

<p>For us:
Four year difference in FA between 100% of need schools = $80k
Four year difference for merit aid at a top 25 Univ and FA at 100% need school = $120k</p>

6

<p>Cocopuff, are you a legacy at any of the schools that you plan to apply to. (Legacy means that your parent or grandparent went to that college.)</p>

<p>The ED preference may apply more strongly to legacies than to other applicants.</p>

7

<p>ED also allows a school to "sew up" a large cohort of full-pay customers (and an occasional football quarterback.) There's actually nothing wrong about that, as each school has to pay the bills, and by guaranteeing a certain amount of income, it frees them up to compare applicants with less regard to income status in the RD round.</p>

8

<p>Do you have a clear first choice school on that list? If so, go for ED, but if not, I wouldn't bother, unless one of those schools has EA, in which case go ahead because its not binding. I was in your position last year. I had a list of 5 schools I really liked of varying selectivity and I really wanted to apply ED to save myself time later. I applied to Brown because it was the most selective and I felt that if I wanted to boost my chances, this was the school to do it for. I got deferred and over the next few months, my interest in Brown decreased anyway and I started becoming really interested in other schools on my list. basically, I kept changing my mind up until about a week before my decision was due. I was ultimately rejected fro Brown, but at that point I was almost relieved because it crossed one of the schools off my list and helped me narrow down my choices. The fact of the matter is that ED probably wasn't the best choice for me because I was so indecisive about the schools. If I had gotten in, it would have made my life easier, but it also would have kept me away from several schools that were really good, if not better for me. It was really visiting and comparring in the spring that helped me make the right decision. just my two cents. :-)</p>

9

<p>Don't apply ED unless you are absolutely sure you want to attend the school. I don't think ED is such an advantage in any case -- I think that most ED pools have a significant number of recruited athletes and legacies, and that is what creates the appearance of an admissions boost. But from what you have written so far, you will be happier if you have more choices in the spring. </p>

<p>In that respect, unless you are very comfortable with attending a SUNY, you need some more schools that are somewhat less selective -- you've got a list consisting of reach schools and safeties, nothing in-between. That's fine IF you are comfortable with those safeties --but if the truth is that you would be very dismayed if your only option was a SUNY, then you need to fill in the list. That's true with or without ED -- one of the biggest mistakes ED kids make is a waiting on their ED results before applying anywhere else -- and then having to rush through with other college apps when they are at an emotional low because they have just been turned down or deferred by their ED school.</p>

<p>Since you are interested in foreign languages, check out Middlebury.</p>

10

<p>Thanks so much for your help everyone. I'm lucky enough not to really have to worry about FA, so that's not really a factor. In terms of legacy, I am a double legacy at Dartmouth, but that's ED, so it would be binding.</p>

<p>I would be lucky to go to Dartmouth and it seems like a great school for me, but I'm just worried I'd be taking the easy way out instead of taking a chance at Georgetown or Princeton.</p>

<p>That's interesting to hear that Penn notoriously places lots of emphasis on ED. Also, I've definitely added Middlebury to my list (thanks, Calmom). I guess my questions are really more along the lines of the politics of ED. Like, would SCEA at Yale make a big enough of a difference to help me? Or is it better to have a "safety net" and apply EA to some of the less competitive schools first? Basically I'm just wondering about the trade-off between security and having options. Any more thoughts on this?? Thanks again in advance!</p>

11

<p>
[quote]
Or is it better to have a "safety net" and apply EA to some of the less competitive schools first? Basically I'm just wondering about the trade-off between security and having options.

[/quote]
The EA safety net is an excellent idea.</p>

<p>There is a lot of debate about the ED "boost." Is it really a boost (because the acceptance rates for the ED pool are larger than the acceptance rates for the RD pool), or is it really a statistical artifact because those applying ED are a stronger pool to begin with (either academically or athletically, etc.)? I'm one who questions how much of a boost there really is.</p>

<p>And who thinks ED is overused by folks for whom it isn't appropriate. Out of fear. Fear that they will be foregoing an advantage.</p>

<p>IMO, you don't need the ED boost. You are a very strong applicant. Very strong. And very well spoken, which I'm sure will show up in your essays. You are not sure of a first choice. So don't go ED. You can do SCEA if you want. Or EA for the safety net. And then RD for all the schools of interest to you. The "halls" of cc are replete with kids whose preferences changed from fall/winter of senior year to April of that same academic year.</p>

<p>Apply to all the schools that interest you. Take the time to know each well enough to tailor your applications to each. You are likely to have many great options when the time comes. That's my 2 cents.</p>

12

<p>Also, keep in mind that a strong interest in foreign languages and classics tends to be helpful for college admissions, as those tend to be less popular majors at most colleges. So your chances may be better than you think. </p>

<p>My daughter is interested in a major that would prepare her for a foreign service career. Georgetown SFS at one time was a dream school, but was dropped from the list because it seemed like too much of a reach. She is now very seriously looking at Barnard's combined 5-year degree program with SIPA at Columbia - I'm 99% sure that this is available to Columbia students as well. I think the students apply during their junior year, and if accepted they take most of their senior year courses at SIPA to earn their bachelor's degree, then stay one more year and get a Master's.</p>

13

<p>Cocopuff, Early decision is a risk evaluation strategy and like all risks it has pluses and minuses. Finance is the biggest risk factor for any ED application, but I'll take you at your word that it's not a concern for your family. </p>

<p>I like early decision as it worked well for my son and our family. He knew what he wanted, applied, was accepted and never looked back. His choice was a reach and I believe that ED helped push him over the top. Of course we have no way to know for sure, but it wasn't a risk that he (and we) wanted to take.</p>

<p>After money, the second most important criterion in an ED strategy is that you truly have a number one first choice that is reasonably achievable for you. From what you tell us, you're in the ball park for all of the schools on your list, even the most selective. </p>

<p>Would ED or EA give you a boost? I think yes, especially considering your demographic but I also think you'd have a reasonably good chance at all except H & P in the RD round. H & P are just so selective and being (I assume correct me if I'm wrong) a white, upperclass female from New York without any serious hooks your chances are just unknown. </p>

<p>Though you mostly likely wouldn't use ED as a strategy to help you get into a school that isn't your first choice, it's often advised to use EA as a strategy to secure an early acceptance at a school that isn't first choice. The fallacy with this thinking is that it may negate the ED advantage at your real #1. </p>

<p>In other words, don't overthink the system. If Dartmouth is your number 1 choice, apply ED. If Princeton (or Harvard or Georgetown) is your #1, apply EA. [Isn't Princeton SCEA now?]</p>

<p>I think the best way to judge is to imagine come April when you get those envelopes. Envision getting a "Sorry" from College X. Would you always regret not applying early? If yes, that's a risk strategy you also need to evaluate.</p>

<p>The colleges on your list are all fine colleges and many of them have graduated a boatload of foreign service officers. I live overseas and interact extensively with career diplomats and embassy officials and although most of them do have advanced degrees from Princeton, Georgetown and the other well known State Department feeders, their undergraduate degrees are all over the place. </p>

<p>What concerns me about your list is the disparity among the personalities and environments of the individual schools. For example Duke and Brown? Georgetown and Dartmouth? I'd suggest that you probe more deeply into the culture and physical surroundings that would best suit you and *then *work out the appropriate the strategy. </p>

<p>Also, I strongly concur that you could use some mid-level safeties and matches. I don't have any suggestions for medium sized safeties, but for less selective matches you might look at JHU and CMU. If you like what you see at Middlebury that also opens up a whole host of LACs to consider.</p>