<p>Graduating in three years is not impressive to grad schools. In fact, you’ve given them less to judge you on, less experience to acquire in preparation. Otoh, I think it is perfectly reasonable for you to take on some debt, on the order of $20K to $25K, to fund your own undergrad. In fact, if I were Croesus himself I would insist that my student have that much of their own skin in the game.</p>
<p>Your education is more than just X classes for Y credits on a transcript. It’s a process for which time is a necessary component.</p>
<p>I feel for you re Russian; Middlebury has an excellent Russian department that you could have been exploring this summer.</p>
<p>Clockwork, could you possibly get on track to graduate in three years, but then take a leave of absence after your second year, enroll directly in an overseas university (usually much less expensive, and maybe you could choose a relatively inexpensive country in terms of living expenses), study there for a year, then return to your class and school for your “third” year which would really be your fourth year? If this would work, you would have your study abroad experience at the time that you expected but also ostensibly graduate in three years. Your dad would have to pay for the third year of study abroad, but at a reduced rate. I don’t know if this would work, but I’m just brainstorming here!
Or, could you go onto part time status for your fourth year and work? Perhaps you could work for a professor doing research in an area of interest. Then, you could seek the recommendation and help of that professor in your grad school applications.
Or, could you seek the advice of a trusted professor and then report the opinion of that professor to your father?
Is your father American? In some countries, an undergraduate degree is achieved in three years; is he coming from that perspective?
Good luck!</p>
<p>For our daughter, her study abroad was 10k less than her school, even after her school put a premium on it. For us, it more than made up for her travel and other expenses. Her experience abroad was priceless in that she made a lot of new friends and the internship she got helped her to get her job.</p>
<p>As a paying parent, I am also not a fan of having my kid graduating early. If I couldn’t afford to pay for all 4 years of a school, I would have told my kid that and asked her to consider a different school. As others have mentioned, college is more than just academic and getting a degree. It’s about participating in all aspects of college life. By graduating early, you will miss out on 25% of the experience. 50K is not a chump change, but if I have already invested 75%, I would suck it up and finish what I have started.</p>
<p>I agree with Oldfort. Also, I think it’s a little unfair of dad to change the rules in the middle of the game. If his intention was for daughter to graduate in three years, he should have told her before she went to such an expensive school, and then she might have chosen differently. On the other hand, I don’t think it should necessarily be his responsibility to bankroll grad school.</p>
<p>CWK, it occurs to me, in light of what you said about your dad’s view of AP courses, that this fixation on you graduating early has been an unspoken assumption for quite some time.</p>
<p>(Note to everyone else: if you have assumptions, you generally should articulate them at some point.)</p>
<p>One of the things that intelligent people do is to periodically re-examine their plans and premises in light of new information. It sounds as if graduating early has been an article of faith for so long with your dad that he hasn’t done this. I don’t know your family dynamic so I have no idea how to suggest this to him.</p>
<p>It’s probably so much of an “Of course!” idea with him that it might be difficult to get him to look at things from a broader perspective.</p>
<p>Btw, I agree with Oldfort’s post.</p>
<p>PS: plug for Smith College: Smith does not add a premium for any abroad program, whether one of the four they themselves run or any of the dozens run by other institutions in which Smith students participate.</p>
<p>My oldest graduated in three years and started grad school at age 20, a funded program. She is currently overseas with the Peace Corps and has 6 languages under her belt in various degrees, including Russian and Hebrew. This is the same one who started a new high school senior year on the other side of the country and never missed a beat. Her grad school was a complete opposite of her undergrad school and that never phased her either. She is just that way.</p>
<p>My second would have no interest in graduating in three years; she definitely wants to graduate with her class. She is more into the whole class camaraderie thing than her older sister. Three years isn’t an option anyway, so we never had to make that decision. </p>
<p>Would something like the Peace Corps fulfill your desire for a study abroad experience? It would cost your dad nothing.</p>
<p>That means that if the Smith tuition for a semester is $18,000 and the tuition for the study abroad program is $10,000, the parents of a full-pay Smith’s student will pay $18K in tuition for that semester – whereas someone who enrolls directly in the program would only pay $10,000. This is what oldfort probably meant by “premium” – not that the college charges extra for its students who are studying abroad, but rather that by paying for study THROUGH the college, the student pays more than they would by directly enrolling in the study abroad program.</p>
<p>This is how many – perhaps most - private colleges handle study abroad, so there is nothing wrong with the approach. But because US private tuitions are so much more expensive than college tuitions abroad, it usually results in the full-pay US student paying more than the program itself actually costs (hence oldfort’s reference to the word “premium”) – and it also results in disparities between costs for students from different colleges, depending on what their home college charges for tuition. That is, if Bryn Mawr’s annual tuition lower than Smith’s (as I believe it currently is), the Bryn Mawr student will pay less to study abroad than the Smith student.</p>
<p>I’d note that sometimes this policy can work in favor of the student, if she chooses a more expensive study abroad program. That’s what happened with my daughter – while attending Barnard, she chose a program administered by Bard that charged more for a semester’s tuition than Barnard. But because of Barnard’s policy, Barnard paid the difference. (Since my daughter was on financial aid, she also received the benefit of that as well.) </p>
<p>I’d note that generally the cost of room and board is borne by the student, and often there are substantial savings abroad over the cost charged by private colleges. (But again, depending on the location of study and accommodations chosen, the room and board fees abroad can be more). </p>
<p>Some schools do not follow this practice, but instead either charge their students a very moderate fee to maintain enrollment while studying abroad, and leave it to the student to pay the study-abroad program fees directly – or else charge no fees at all of their own. Apparently this is the practice that oldfort encountered. This is probably more common among public universities than private. The advantage of this is that the student can shop around and select the most economical program offered in their country of choice.</p>
<p>This is why I suggested that the OP consider completing requirements for graduation in 3 years, and then enrolling directly in a study abroad program after graduation – IF finances are the root of the father’s concern, and IF the OP wants to study abroad for a full academic year. At the very least it would make sense for the OP to explore study abroad options and ascertain what the costs would be for pursuing that route, as opposed to the cost of enrolling in the study abroad program during her junior year via her home college.</p>
<p>Ah, CM, you are correct: I read “premium” to be a charge over and above normal tuition. I have no idea how D’s semester in Budapest penciled out…it was her normal tuition and I don’t know what the sponsoring college, St. Olaf’s, charges its students for the privilege nor did I care enough to run it down. D’s numbers were in the mental spreadsheet for all four years and the only thing that varied was how much we took out in loans from year to year depending on our income & expenses at the time.</p>
<p>Most likely Smith tuition is greater than St. Olaf’s, but I don’t know and similarly have no particular desire to check it out. Usually if a program is administered via a private US college or university, the tuition costs are not much different – but if a program is administered by a public US university- or directly by the institution abroad – its tuition and program fees are likely to be considerably less than the private tuition. </p>
<p>I think the OP’s problem may be that her Dad didn’t project out 4 years of expensive as you did … but was hoping for 3. So I can see why the dad might be dismayed at the thought of paying Bryn Mawr tuition for a semester or year when the student isn’t even at Bryn Mawr. (Face it: the academic quality of these programs can be considerably variable – and if the student’s rationale for wanting 4 years of college is that she absolutely loves her small LAC, then its natural to wonder how that reconciles with spending half a year on the other side of the globe from that beloved LAC).</p>
<p>I agree with all who have said that 4 years is better than 3 – so I hope that OP can get her dad to come around to her view – but I did NOT pay full tuition, and even with a subsidized college education, I am really hurting financially now that dd has graduated. (Somehow that mental spreadsheet of mine didn’t quite account for all contingencies). So I don’t think the issue of an extra $55K+ or so for a year of college can be so easily discarded.</p>
<p>CM, I always recognize that Murphy is powerful when taking into account contingencies. What I did not take into account was the economy in general and the real estate business in particular going into such a spectacular funk, a factor that has made much more difference then any alterations in the spreadsheet would have. Like a kidney stone, this too shall pass.</p>
<p>All that said, I have no regrets about choices made. We met our portion of the obligation and D met hers. If our lifestyle is crimped for a few years or if D inherits less than she would have otherwise, I think she’s well ahead of the game. </p>
<p>But note: we approached things from what was doable, not necessarily what was pleasant or easy financially, which is a pathetic standard imho. Iow, we had something of a clue, even if only a half-assed clue. It appears that the mom in the cited story didn’t even know there <em>were</em> clues.</p>
<p>Cornell charged extra 5K on top of what U. of Sydney charged, and D1’s abroad tuition was still less compared to Cornell’s tuition. We also found out international students paid a lot more than Australians and that’s why they love internationals.</p>
<p>**Clockworkkey<a href=“OP”>/B</a>, we had similar discussions in our family, so I will share how we handled it.</p>
<p>My D was eligible to graduate college in three years due to her AP credits. (Not sure if her school (Smith) would allow that today, as some schools have tightened up on using AP credits toward degrees, and D graduated high school back in in 2002.)</p>
<p>Anyhow, we sent her full pay to Smith College, turning down other less pricey alternatives, with the understanding that she would do it in three years. At the time, my H, the main wage earner, had lost his job so it was a significant leap of faith for us to do this. Smith gave us zero financial aid based on his previous high income and expectation that he would be reemployed at that level again. </p>
<p>When H did eventually become happily employed again in his field, D expressed interest in doing the full four years at Smith. We decided to “split the difference” with her – suggested she do it in three and a half years. D was interested in doing the junior year or semester abroad, and we suggested she could go abroad for a semester without paying Smith tuition. (And yes, as Calmom says, it is actually a profit-maker for many schools to send kids abroad to another program and charge “only” the home school tuition. No wonder so many U.S. private schools encourage study abroad!)</p>
<p>D ended up taking a leave of absence from Smith for the fall of her junior year. She spent the previous summer and fall (six months) in China working, teaching business English to adult professionals. She got a more meaningful abroad experience working than she would have being in a classroom, she learned a LOT about the local culture and business practices, picked up some Mandarin, had her expenses paid and earned a (modest by US standards, but it went far in China) salary. She was able to travel during her paid vacations and made the most of those opportunities. </p>
<p>Smith charged $50 for the semester as a leave of absence paperwork/placeholder fee.
One of the smartest financial moves we ever made. It amazes me that more people do not consider such an option if they want an abroad experience.</p>
<p>Anyhow, D then returned to Smith for the second half of junior year and was able to enjoy her full senior year on campus and graduate with her class.</p>
<p>Worked great for our family. Any chance you could come up with a similar compromise with your dad?</p>
<p>Yes, jyber209, this is similar to what I was suggesting too, except that I was suggesting that the OP enroll directly in an overseas university to take classes, which would be less expensive than enrolling through her college. In suggesting this, I was assuming that it would be difficult to get a visa to actually work overseas, especially in Germany or Russia (I should not have assumed anything, though). Did your daughter do this through an agency that places English teachers?</p>
<p>^ Yes,** levirm**, your suggestion could work as well. The profit that US colleges often make by sending students abroad is an underexposed aspect of college costs, IMO. I have seen only a couple of articles addressing this, but it is prevalent.</p>
<p>And yes, my D did work through an agency that arranged for her visa and renewals and paid her airfare, housing, cleaning lady, etc. and provided a Mandarin tutor as part of her benefit package. She also had a personal assistant at one of her corporate workplaces. This assistant arranged her personal vacation travel! as well as smoothing out workplace arrangements. My D was spoiled by the level of respect and professional status she enjoyed while in China.</p>
<p>By the way, generally a college degree is required for this work, but an exception was made for D because she had several previous abroad experiences, which the employer felt compensated for the not yet completed degree.</p>
as well as smoothing out workplace arrangements. My D was spoiled by the level of respect and professional status she enjoyed while in China.</p>