mathyone, I have no clue what the girls there are doing and I said that. I also have said that I believe that inappropriate stuff went on with the boys. But, I do think that girls are capable of hazing, being crass. . I posted a link to that effect about female hazing. but you may have missed that. I think anything related to hazing is relevant at this point but apparently only if it is related to these 5 guys for some of you. There is no new news on this particular case so the allegations about these guys keeps going round and round.
Reading the links posted by dstark adds some clarity to the incidents What was reported was that the coach had no idea this hazing was going on until he heard about it from an outside source (which is presumably outside the UVA swim team). It was then, after a few days of the coach pressuring the first year students to come forward, that Marcantonio told the coach of the experience. Once he told on the older teammates, presumably steps were taking immediately to censure or punish those involved. This lead to the ostracization of Marcantonio and arguably did ruin his swim career at UVA if he was no longer safe to practice with the team.
That’s my reading of the situation.
That’s a good summary and I think all of that has been gone over repeatedly already on this thread. There is nothing new right now going on with this particular case . There will be new stuff, I guess, if a response is made by the defendants, it is settled out of court or the case goes to trial. If it is settled out of court, are the specifics usually not made public? I am not a lawyer so not sure what the next step is now that a civil suit has been filed. How long do the defendants have to respond?
I don’t think this has been mentioned but if someone is determined to abuse another swimmer during practice there are plenty of opportunities. There are multiple swimmers in a lane and lots of splashing, noise and commotion to help hide actions. Stuff happens under the water, while waiting for the clock at the end of the lane and there is always the perfectly timed “accidental” kick. Plus the usual locker room opportunities.
As I said, I have zero experience with swimming. My kids know how to swim and that’s about it. How common do you think these kinds of things are that you mention (in the pool and in the locker room), deega?
@sevmom My kids swam through high school and it was not unusual to be accidentally kicked, scratched or crack heads during practice. If you are swimming in a lane and the person behind you thinks you are too slow and you won’t move over, it’s common practice to swim over the slower swimmer. It’s not unusual to get kicked or pushed under water during the process. There is practice lane hierarchy and etiquette and some kids abuse it to get competitive advantage.
If someone is determined to hurt someone it would be very easy to do so under the guise of normal practice incidents. For instance, you could speed up to swim over the guy in front of you and land a viscous kick and innocently proclaim that the victim was too slow.
I can’t help wondering if the person outside of swimming who clued in the coach was a parent of one of the first years.
Also, I wanted to answer this question:
Well, yeah. Where does this idea come from that people are entitled to hold bad opinions without criticism?
Thanks for the info, @deega123 . Very interesting.
“I can’t help wondering if the person outside of swimming who clued in the coach was a parent of one of the first years.” I would not be surprised if it was the plaintiff’s parents but that is pure speculation.
Not from me, criticize away. I was simply inquiring of HarvestMoon’s intent in asking certain posters to rate the “acceptability” of enumerated activities she listed. I assume to berate them if their answers did not match hers. Nice.
Sorry about the typos in my previous post. I was in a rush and didn’t proof read. A “viscous” kick would probably not hurt that much. 
I am also a swim mom with some parent time put into the sport. There is a swim culture in and out of the pool. It is the coaches responsibility to establish the norms for what happens in the pool. There may jockeying for position in the pool but there is definitely proper etiquette for passing in the lane and lots of other things that occur in the pool. The coachs’ job is to establish behavioral expectations to ensure swimmers do NOT get hurt in the practice or in competition. Surely this is the most basic of requirements for a coach/team experience.
As well, on many swim teams the men and women practice together, though I do not know about the UVA team specifically.
Better news for UVa Men’s athletics-UVa was awarded the CapitalOne Cup (for the men’s programs) at the ESPY’s last night.-for national championships in baseball, soccer, and tennis and a top 10 finish in basketball. Hopefully, no major hazing in any of those programs. I enjoyed the award show last night. I thought the speech by Caitlin Jenner was quite moving. http://www.capitalonecup.com/
Ann Arbor Named ‘America’s Top Swim City’ by USA Swimming
For the second straight year, Ann Arbor, Michigan
was named
the best swimming city in the country in a study by USA Swimming.
The study was commissioned by USA Swimming and Speedo in partnership with SRi and Sports Marketing Surveys. They compiled the rankings based on an aggregate score in categories including percentage of active swimmers and swim clubs, number of accessible pools and volume of top-level swimmers from the area.
Ann Arbor has the largest percentage of top USA Swimming athletes per population and the second-highest number of pool facilities per population of any city in the country. More than 60 Olympians came through the University of Michigan’s swim program.
According to 2012 Olympian and former University of Michigan swimmer Tyler Clary, “People love swimming in Ann Arbor and the community rallies around the sport. This honor is also a testament to the University of Michigan swim program and how it has inspired the entire city of Ann Arbor to get in the water. The combination of Club Wolverine, the university, city residents and Club Wolverine Swim Camp as one of the most successful swim camps in the country, is evidence of why the Ann Arbor swim community is so great.”
A full list of the top swimming cities can be found on
USA Swimming’s website
I have to agree with @madamecrabster. Yes, of course kids can get kicked or scratched accidentally in practice, but this isn’t routine. Swimmers who practice together regularly will know what order they should be swimming in so that no passing is needed. Kids with bad attitudes about this should be corrected by a competent coach. After 23 kid-years I can’t recall my kids saying that someone swam over them and pushed them under water. That sort of thing would not be tolerated.
From the Richmond Times Dispatch
http://www.richmond.com/news/virginia/article_95d486c2-1db6-11e5-8c8d-8f449b1c8317.html
"After the defendants heard about Marcantonio’s testimony, the suit alleges, he was cautioned by Busch to refrain from swimming while other members of the team were present and to practice alone “while someone else was watching for protection.”
Busch then told Marcantonio on Sept. 15 that “his physical safety could not be guaranteed,” the suit states.
“The threat to his safety was very real,” the suit states. “Indeed, [Busch] informed plaintiff by email that he could not practice with the team, and that, if he did want to swim, he had to be out of the pool by the time the team would show up to practice.”"
Like I said in my post, accidents do happen in the pool. My kids have swam with bullies and immature ultra competitive kids who have swam over kids or hurt kids in the end of the lane under the pretense of horsing around.
IMO, it would be very easy to hurt someone during practice. I have seen it happen.
I have not seen any updates on this (the above link was from last month). It would be interesting to see the exact email from Busch and hear what he has to say about this. If the coach could not protect one of his recruits, I am surprised he was not named in the lawsuit. And, I am not referring to the hazing (as I haven’t seen any allegations that the coach knew hazing would be taking place) but what allegedly happened afterwards. But, I am no lawyer!
Thought of your comment, hunt, about bad opinions when I read this:
http://www.houstonpress.com/arts/no-it-s-not-your-opinion-you-re-just-wrong-7611752
Yep. I also like what John Oliver said about global warming.
Or I read somewhere that we can move mass populations of people because of climate change and there would be no net cost.
No. That’s false. 
Love that last paragraph of the linked article @jym626. Does not mince words. The referenced video was too much to take no matter what side of the issue one comes down on.
IIRC the Marcantonio complaint alleges that after the coach and dean of students were apprised of the goings on at the Swim House, Marcantonio had to practice on his own as the coach could not “guarantee his safety.” The complaint states:
It is hard to imagine what was going on here. What were the defendants going to do to him? It is amazing that students that couldn’t be trusted to swim in the same pool as a teammate would be allowed to remain on campus. This sort of thing sounds like mafia tactics to me. Basically these kids had more power than the coach?
Not sure if it is Mafia tactics, but it does sound like bullying. I find it hard to believe that the coach could not protect the freshman swimmer from his teammates so the freshman has to clear out and practice when the rest of his team shows up!? This coach still has job but that freshman swiimmer and some, and I am not clear how many, of the rest of the swimmers doing the bullying (or whatever you want to call it, as I can think of stronger language to use) are no longer on the team or at the school. The coach is still there and not even a party to the lawsuit. Seems like there must be missing information or something that just does not compute.