<p>S is a junior, high honor student (3.9U, no lower than 5 out of 200) in an urban IB magnet within a medium sized public school. School typically graduates 10-15 diploma students each year. A few students go to super-selective schools (Stanford, Penn). He has a few ECs that he enjoys but nothing outstanding-- 3 years of volleyball, bass guitar in a metal band, black belt in martial arts, exchange program in Germany. Not sure of future major but leaning towards history. Financial aid is not a concern due to some very lucky timing on investments.</p>
<p>Parents are senior citizens and have too much time to focus on only child. H is retired English prof. and I am "retired" college counselor at a community college but more recently SAHM. </p>
<p>To introduce S to idea of college, we showed him the Fiske guide and after discussion, let him pick a few schools to visit last summer. He loved Dartmouth and Wesleyan and liked Middlebury, Amherst, and Lafayette. Then we got the ACT and SAT scores--600 CR, 600M and 625W. This spring we looked at Franklin & Marshall, which he liked.</p>
<p>H thinks S should try for the super reach schools; says it won't hurt to try. I think he should be more realistic. If it was just a matter of applying on the common app, I would agree but the super reach schools will also require SATIIs. The kid is very conscientious and has great relationships with all of his teachers but is burned out of testing. We will probably have him work with a tutor and try the SATs one more time but are running out of time for the SATIIs.</p>
<p>I intend to sit down with S when he isn't under pressure from so many IB assignments and ask what he really wants. Then, I have to convince H that it is S's life.</p>
<p>Sorry, for being so wordy. Any advice from the wise folks of CC?</p>
<p>Our hs college guidance counselor gave the same advice to all seniors in the fall. Apply to “safety schools” - ones your child should get into, “target schools” - child is in the range they accept, but may not be chosen due to acceptance ratios, and a few “reach” schools. She suggested applying to 6 to 8 schools. It’s a bit more work, but it usually gives the student choices come spring of senior year. Sometimes, one particular college will stand out that offers early admission or acceptance – which also takes some pressure off.</p>
<p>By applying to a broader range of schools, you are not giving up the possibility that child may be accpted to a reach school. It’s awful nice to get acceptance letters along with the inevitable rejection letters most students get. I don’t see it as a negative to apply to a reach school … a “super” reach school is something we probably wouldn’t have done.</p>
<p>My son is a HS junior, too. And his scores are neck-n-neck with your son’s. We’re even looking at Lafayette and F&M. </p>
<p>It’s my opinion that it doesn’t hurt apply to super-reaches as long as they don’t kick a realistic reach, match or safety off the list. </p>
<p>Just how “super” are the super reaches your H likes? Dartmouth, Wesleyan, Middlebury, and Amherst are pretty high up there. Even for kids with scores in range, the acceptance rates make them long shots. </p>
<p>As for SATIIs, there are tests in the fall. Not ideal, I know, but your S could squeeze in the 2 (or 3) required if he had to. I’d suggest doing the SAT I in October. Then, if he can get his 2-part score in the middle 50% for the super-reaches you can sign him up for SAT IIs in December. But, if he can’t get above the 25% threshold at the super-reaches, there’s really no point in torturing him with SAT IIs.</p>
<p>I’d do what our GC recommends (which, based on the responses to this thread, is a common recommendation): 3 or 4 reaches, 3 or 4 targets, 3 or 4 safeties. </p>
<p>Why not give the reaches a shot? You never know - Yale may need a setter for the volleyball team that year.</p>
<p>I’m going to give a dose of reality–the SAT scores are too low for the super-reaches unless there is something highly unusual on the resume. (I am assuming that his is not an underrpresented minority, for example.) I fear that Middlebury, Wesleyan, Dartmouth and Amherst are pretty much out of reach unless his SAT scores go up pretty substantially. Make sure you get a guidebook that shows score distributions for the schools you are considering. How did he do on the ACT?</p>
<p>As for how many schools to apply to, it’s my opinion that if a kid is really interested in reach schools, he needs to apply to quite a bit more than 2–more like 6. 2 or 3 matches and 2 safeties as well.</p>
<p>I would show H these scatterplots–GPA (unweighted) along one axis; SAT 1 scores along the other axis. This is what the competitive landscape looks like out there. This is reality!</p>
<p>Judging by actual results, I’d say that an 1825 SAT score would make a super select college out of reach unless he’s got something really extraordinary that a college might want–a special talent, a passion for a certain uncommon major, the ability to bring diversity, whether racial, socio-economic or otherwise, to the campus. Your time would be better spent trying to get that SAT score up and researching colleges further down the food chain that your S would love to attend. There are plenty of those out there.</p>
<p>I agree with DougBetsy that the Dartmouth, Amherst crowd is very selective also. </p>
<p>The 25% threshold test is a good one, in my opinion. Many people in the bottom 25% threshold usually have some kind of hook that ameliorated test scores, etc. If your kid DOESN’T have such a hook, the chances of acceptance are even less.</p>
<p>I want to know what prefect wants to know. Plus it doesn’t hurt to apply to those reachy schools if it will keep the peace w/ your H but realistically schools that are a reach for everyone are particularly so for students with great but not perfect test scores.</p>
<p>MY D had similar numbers to your S but a very different school profile. She had a very successful admissions season but applied to only one reach where she was WLed.</p>
<p>She was also denied at a school we both thought to be a match so it’s good to remember that a match isn’t a safety. I know Duh right but I kind of lost sight of that one.</p>
<p>Unless she comes off of the WL she will be attending one of her safeties which she LOVES!!! so make sure sure sure that the safety schools are ones you child will happily attend!</p>
<p>Your H may want to look at the admitted students profiles and your S may want to have a direct conversation w/ your H regarding testing.</p>
<p>Wesleyan, for one, does not require SAT subject tests if you submit an ACT score. And at Wes, like other LACs, the acceptance rates for boys is higher than girls, as they are trying to keep their ratio and 50:50.</p>
<p>The exchange program in Germany may make him stand out, but I agree that his scores are way too low for a place like Yale. </p>
<p>It’s best to build college app lists from the bottom up, making sure your kid loves - LOVES-- his safety, would be thrilled to go there, and it’s a school you can afford.</p>
<p>^^Seriously good advice from NSM. Build that list from the bottom up…come late March/April next year, there will be a lot of happy faces at your home.</p>
<p>First, your S has a 3.9 (out of 4.0?) GPA in an IB program. This is competitive at any college. His test scores are low for many of the schools on the list. Does he have a history of performing poorly of standardized tests? What was his PSAT? To me it’s much easier to mitigate low standardized test scores than it is to explain away a low GPA. That said, some schools apply a statistical hurdle, (something like having to be within 2 standard deviations of the average), to their SATs.</p>
<p>Second, the GC at your S school should be able to show you a profile (GPA & SATs) of other students from your S’s high school who got into selective schools (he/she will have to protect their privacy, but he should have the info handy). This would give your S and H a better sense of his standing.</p>
<p>Third, is his college list done? Why not expand the search to other schools?</p>
<p>Fourth, I like 8 as a number of applications: 2 - Reach, 4- Match, 2 - Safety. If S and H want to throw in a super-reach and go for 9, I say why not? It’s one more application and maybe $60; just make sure S & H are comfortable will ALL the schools on the list.</p>
<p>Thanks for the responses. After reading CC for over a year, I think that I am pretty realistic. My husband who has ADD and struggled in school but managed to get a PhD thinks our son can succeed at the very top schools. That might be true but he needs to be accepted first. I also am not sure that a super-selective school would be the best fit.</p>
<p>S took the ACT with Writing in Feb before he took the SAT because I thought from reading here that it would suit his learning style better. His composite score was 28 with Eng. 29, math 27, reading 30, and Science 24. His English /writing score was 27/08. He walked out of the test saying that the science was impossible and that he would go for the SAT instead of trying ACT again. I have read on here that with practice the science is not that bad.
I think S needs to take more ownership of this process. After the pressure of IB projects, final exams, and term papers, we need to have a discussion of what he wants to do. On the one hand, he is wanting the prestige of a select school (which totally surprised me) but when it comes to putting the extra effort, he thinks that his gpa is enough for now.
DougBetsy, I think you offer good advice. If, after tutoring the scores do not go up significantly (and I question how much improvement can be had with tutoring), I will try to convince my H that it is not worth the torture of trying to convince S to do more testing for the SATII. All 3 of us liked Lafayette and F & M, so I don’t think that he would be making a bad choice to stick to schools at that level.</p>
<p>I agree with the love your safety. Also, as to number of schools – is HE going to be OK if he gets rejected from a lot of schools. One of my Ds friends was accepted at her safety and then at a humongous to me number of school, and she is still feeling rejected. Only you and DH know your child. Good luck.</p>
<p>What about ACT? My S had a 32 ACT, higher than his SAT scores, and just submitted the ACT. He had a similar class rank to your S at a much less competitive school and similar ECs and got into Wesleyan, Tufts, Vassar, Cornell - he did submit his SAT scores to Cornell because they required it, and still got in with 720R, 700W, 650M and SAT Subject tests in the high 600s, so I would say, don’t get his hopes up but college admissions can be a crap shoot, so go for a few reaches!
And at schools like Wesleyan, where my son will be attending, make sure they know you have visited and do an interview - and he could always apply Early Decision if he is REALLY sure he would love to go to one school the most.</p>
<p>Don’t discount the harm to your S’s ego if he applies to many reach schools only to be rejected. Notwithstanding advice from us and my D’s HS counselor, she applied to far too many reach scools and too few matches and safeties. After two years of college, I can reasonably say that things have worked out for the best for many reasons but I will never forget the day that she received something like 6 rejections. Being realistic in the application process is important for many reasons.</p>
<p>Whoops, sorry, I was typing slowly while you posted about your son’s ACT scores. The science is the hardest part of the test for many kids. If he nudges his SAT scores up, I would still say he should apply to a couple of reaches, just as long as he is realistic about his chances and is very happy with his match and safety schools.
Recommendation letters from teachers can also be instrumental especially if they can shed some light the apparent discrepancy between his grades and his test scores - which are perfectly good scores by the way.</p>