Facing reality or giving up?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Personally, I’d have S take some SAT II practice exams. The questions aren’t in the least like those on the SAT I and it is quite possible that his scores will be better, even without testing. While his SAT Is do hurt him, to a limited extent they can be offset by higher SAT II scores. Even at “match” schools, higher SAT II scores would improve his odds. (Lots of colleges that don’t require them do consider them.) </p>

<p>Have him take them under timed conditions. If he does well, have him take the SAT IIs. I THINK there is a summer testing date for them and I’d have him take any relating to subjects he took this year ASAP rather than waiting for the fall. </p>

<p>I’d also take a look at his SAT I . If it’s a “disclosed” test, figure out where he went “wrong”–in the overall context, they aren’t bad scores. Maybe he did something stupid like circling in the last bubble when there are only 4 choices or skipping a line or some such thing. Do that before you spend money on a tutor. </p>

<p>Also, look for schools where he’s an “oval” not a circle–a little bit different than the typical applicant. </p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>The best advice I’ve heard about the ACT Science is that it isn’t “science;” it’s “science reading.” Maybe your S should considering looking at it and prepping for it in that light. </p>

<p>PS. What martial art does he do? A former :frowning: aikidoka here.</p>

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<p>OP - Did your S do ANY prep for the SAT or ACT? Any full practice tests? Any full TIMED practice tests?</p>

<p>If no…your S must be willing to do this, or it must be part of what tutor does with S, or the scores are not likely to show much improvement. </p>

<p>Your husband is probably right in believing that your son could do well at the schools he liked …but you are right in being realistic about his chances of getting in with his current test scores.</p>

<p>If scores don’t improve, heed the suggestions of applying to schools like Bowdoin, that are SAT optional and somewhat similar to ones your S liked.</p>

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<p>Sorry, 640 in writing. </p>

<p>Tang soo do for the martial arts but took a break after second recertification; hope he will go back at some point. It was a good experience for him. As he moved up in levels, he became friends with some CMU profs. Too bad he isn’t interested in computer technology!</p>

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<p>I totally feel for you, and I think understand where your H is coming from. Mine is also a professor at a very prestigous flagship state university. At this point, our D doesn’t have the scores to get admitted there, yet H sees kids all the time whose work isn’t nearly on a par with hers. It’s pretty hard for him to swallow.</p>

<p>I will also say that it’s been pretty hard to get D to think about anything other than prestige in terms of finding colleges she likes.</p>

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<p>I got a 28 the first time i took the ACT with practically zero prep. I retook it and reviewed a little (an hour a day for 4 or 5 days before the test) using an ACT prep book. My score went up to a 32.</p>

<p>Try a little prep and see if it doesn’t do the trick</p>

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<p>There are very few schools that require the SAT II, and since these would mostly likely be substantial reaches for your son, I would not bother with the SAT II.</p>

<p>I also would emphasize finding a school that your son loves and where he is likely to be accepted. It sounds like it will also be important to get your husband on board with the school.</p>

<p>By definition, your son is unlikely to be accepted at his reach schools. So it is important to consider them as “would be nice to get in, but not counting on it” and put most of the focus on schools which are more realistic choices.</p>

<p>With his strong academic record and class rank, I agree with including SAT optional schools.</p>

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<p>Suggestions for some more matches/ high matches to look at considering what he has liked so far. I’d suggest trying the tests one more time if he is willing to do some more prep. Chances are they will at least be a bit higher and get him more comfortably into the middle 50% of many great schools.<br>
Connecticut College - test optional but 25% ACT of admitted students is 27
Trinity College- Will take 2 SATII’s in lieu of SAT/ACT (a possible reason to take SATIIs)- but 25% ACT is 26
Dickinson - also test optional with 25% ACT (imo would be ranked higher if in NE)</p>

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<p>Dickinson’s 25% ACT is also 26 (SAT 25% about 600)</p>

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<p>The first question is not reach, match, safety, but what he really wants out of school. Maybe he’d prefer something completely different - all the schools you looked at are so, so similar! Same courses, similar geography, many similar size, similar racial, economic, and social makeup of the student bodies, etc., etc. Maybe he’d prefer University of California at Santa Barbara, or New College of Florida, or University of Minnesota, or Marlboro, etc.</p>

<p>Then, once you have a feel for that, focus first on the safety! A school where he’d feel comfortable, learn well, you can afford, and he is more than 80% likely to be accepted. Find it first. After that, you can have fun!</p>

<p>History can be studied virtually anywhere.</p>

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<p>Many good suggestions here. What really stands out: your S is a gifted student with good GPA but won’t work hard to make the test scores come up. Since he hasn’t done his own test prep w/booklet and practice tests, I’d suggest he start there. Your comment that you need to sit down with him after this semester is over and have a big talk is key. </p>

<p>Of course it would be grand if our kids were imbued with the maturity to realize how important studying 20 hours might be in their pursuit of good college choices–but many don’t have an ounce more energy left for that. If you feel your S would really thrive at a loftier college, I humbly suggest some gentle bribes. Rather than spend thousands on test prep, lay it on the line with S. You’ll pay him to self-study and move his scores up on practice tests. </p>

<p>:) I didn’t have to do this with my first son (he’s just a self-studier and felt the challenge), but I will not hesitate if needed with S2.</p>

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<p>OP, has your S taken any APs yet and how did he do? That may shed some light on how he does on subject-based tests w/national norms. If his scores on those are consistent with the 3.9 GPA, then subject tests may go better than he thinks. </p>

<p>If he had any classes this year that have SAT-II subject tests, the extended deadline for SAT-II reigstration is tonight (ugh, I know) – but it’s a lot easier to take them when the material is fresh. I have a junior IB diploma student, too, and I know about test fatigue. I have it too, at this point! :slight_smile: Agree w/others that science is all about reading comprehension and interpreting graphs.</p>

<p>Average accepted SAT scores for Amherst and Wes from S2’s school were 2306 and 2325, respectively, with 3.85 and 3.79 GPAs (which from this program is insanely good).</p>

<p>Familiarity with the test format and sitting through a full-length practice will also help. Fatigue can be a real issue.</p>

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<p>Look into fairtest.org. It’s a list of all test-optional colleges. Look at Union and Hobart and William Smith Colleges.
This way he will avoid the test/GPA discrepancy and won’t have to explain a thing. D did not do well on standardized tests but had a great GPA. S had the terrific scores and the so-so GPA. D was much more successful in applications.
Also someone mentioned the unusual major. Not a bad idea at all.</p>

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<p>Even if we can still register late for the June subject tests, I don’t think it would be a good idea. Before he leaves for Germany, he must take his finals early, do a world lit paper, math project, TOK paper, history book report–and those are just the things that he has told me about. With a bad case of IB fatigue, I think that I need to wait awhile before I mention any more tests.<br>
He got a 4 last year on APUSH, the first time that the course was taught at our school (our IB school does only 1 or 2 APS). He only knows of one girl from his school that got a 5.
I am open to the idea of bribery. He wants a new guitar and because of the German trip, will have difficulty finding a summer job, so he might be more willing to do a bit of study for pay. For his second attempt at SAT, with only 3 weeks to study, I offered him $50 for the first 100 practice problems and $1/problem after that. He did 106 problems and brought his score up 50 points. I am going to order the score report so he can see the type of mistakes that he made.
I know that the schools that I have mentioned are very similar. Originally I thought that he would want a large school since he is a city kid. This year he complained that his IB history class had 35 students and was too large for good discussions. He likes having a lot of interaction with his teachers which most of the LACs really emphasize. When he returns from Germany, we will get out the college guides again and look for a wider variety, if that is what he wants.
I really appreciate the input from all of you. You have given me lots of good ideas to consider. He is a good kid, just a little stubborn about this college process, which might be a good indication that we need to back off and let him take the lead.</p>

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<p>lotsofquests - your son might also try the ACT - some kids do inexpiclably better, and many schools won’t require SAT2’s if you take the ACT. Unless your son’s test scores improve I think his chances are very slim at those super-elite schools. You have to assume that the kids in the bottom 25% of reported SAT scores include a fair number of recruited athletes, URM, development cases and legacies. His grades should help.</p>

<p>If you have a couple of good safeties (ones you like) or get an early admission (rolling or EA not ED) you can have as many reaches as you can afford.</p>

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<p>"This year he complained that his IB history class had 35 students and was too large for good discussions. He likes having a lot of interaction with his teachers which most of the LACs really emphasize. "</p>

<p>Being male is a big plus at most LACs. His safeties and matches may even give him merit aid – big merit aid depending on the school.</p>

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<p>lotsofquests,</p>

<p>I am not a frequent poster but do follow this forum closely in the past 1.5 years as my daughter is a HS senior who just went through the college admission process. I saw the title of your post, read the details, and felt compelled to respond. If your son truly loves the schools that he visited and really wants to be part of the community there, then no, don’t give up. The SAT issue is not something that is so insurmontable that someone with a dream needs to give up so readily. I am going to share the journey of my daughter to help demonstrate my point here.</p>

<p>In many ways, my daughter is very much like your son. She has been a gifted student since elementary school. She goes (or went - since she just graduated this week) to a city-wide magnet gifted school within a medium-size public school. She is driven, diligent, and well-liked by her teachers (great recommendations when time came for college apps). She took a very rigorous AP courseload (11 total by end of senior year) and with a GPA of 3.8. However, she did not naturally perform well in standardized testing. Her PSAT was in the 180 range (can’t remeber the exact number). We put her through a SAT prep course, but it didn’t make much of a difference. The score of her 1st SAT attempt in the spring of her junior year was 1880 (660/610/610). </p>

<p>After having visited some highly selective/super reach schools (think Ivy, Duke, Johns Hopkins, etc.) previously, she was determined to get into one of those schools. As disappointing as her SAT was, she didn’t give up. In the 2.5 weeks between the end of her junior year in May and the June SAT test date, she planted herself in the library ~ 6 hours a day everyday to go through several SAT practice books. The result: a 250 points increase. </p>

<p>She gave SAT one more try in Oct of her senior year hoping to boost the score of one particular section. While she never surpassed the 2200 mark, her final score is in the high 2100’s. Granted, this score is by no means competitive by CC standard. The same can be said of her GPA (her GPA didn’t even get to the 3.8 range - it was 3.79 to be exact, when she submitted her appplications). If we were to ask on CC about her chance of getting into some of those highly selective/reach schools, I am sure there will be a lot of folks here telling us that her SAT and GPA is low.</p>

<p>While she didn’t get into HYPS, she did get into her 1st choice/dream school and will be starting at Johns Hopkins in the fall. Along with JHU, she also have some wonderful choices like Brown, Penn, Columbia, Emory, NYU, Georgetown and Fordham. </p>

<p>So, in summary:
(1) Low SAT score is not something that cannot be overcome. It will take work and dedication, but it can be done. The key here is that your son needs to want it badly enough to go through the SAT practice tests religiously to prep for it. My daughter will be the first to tell you that it is no fun to go through those boring practices, but for someone who is not natural in taking standardized testing, it is something that needs to be done.</p>

<p>(2) You don’t need a 2300 to get into those highly selective schools. And SAT and GPA alone will not get you there. When they said they look at the applicants holistically, they mean it. If they only look at her scores and GPA, she definitely would not have gotten into the schools that she did. And no, she doesn’t have any “hooks”: she doesn’t play any sports, she doesn’t play any instruments, she is not artistic (no singing, arts, or drama EC), she is not a URM (as a matter of fact, she is a combination of two ORM: white & asian), she didnt’ win any major awards (e.g Intel or Siemens Science Fairs, etc.) and she doesn’t have any hardships to tell in her application (we are just a normal upper middle class family). What she has is a drive to get into her dream school. She is also very engaged in school and community.</p>

<p>So, go for it if your son really wants to get into those schools. Don’t give up - it is not going to be easy but it can be done. But your son has to want it himself. And if he is not that type or will not be willing to put in what it takes to get there, then I think it is time for you to sit down with your H and have a talk with him to set his expectations more realistically.</p>

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<p>Thank you UNMHKU, for your reply. These posts from all of you are helping me to clarify how I think. The key, at this point, is how much does he want the selective schools. Although his PSAT and 2 SATs are pretty consistent, I think that he can bring them up considerably if HE wants to do the work. He tends to be very hard on himself and underestimates his own abilities; if he thinks that he can’t do better, why put in the effort. With only one “B” on his report card in the past 8 years, not scoring well on a test has discouraged him. With that in mind, it is difficult to know when my encouraging/guiding turns into nagging, which he of course resists. We both need to take a break from this for awhile and since he will not be able to take any June tests, he has until the Fall to work things out. When he returns from Germany in July, I am hoping that he will be more ready to think about college plans. In the meantime, I am going to try to subtlely (sp?) work on getting my husband to back off a bit.</p>

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<p>take a look at Grinnell. They put very little stake in the SAT scores. Great school</p>

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<p>I’d focus on convincing H that it’s S’s life. Sure, it’s fine to apply to places and taking a few SATII’s isn’t that big a deal but college is only stop in life and success is about the person not the degree. </p>

<p>I’d then look at the colleges he liked, reaches or not, and spend some time identifying why so you can think of others like that. (And I’d do this with a critical eye toward how the tours, visits went because a sunny day and a talkative, friendly guide dramatically alters your perceptions.)</p>