<p>
</p>
<p>Could this be the source of that part of the 20% who don't favor women which increases after admission?</p>
<p>"if I were to score a perfect 500 on the PFT as a woman and then had those figures converted to the men’s scale, I would barely be passing."</p>
<p>Wow, I assumed the SA's physical Fitness tests were similar. A perfect score at USMA for both the women and men on the APFT is 300. It consists of pushups in 2 mins, situps in 2 mins, and a two mile run. </p>
<p>For example:
If a 20 yr old woman does 65 pushups, 77 situps and runs the 2 mile in 13:10 she will score a 298 out of a possible 300. </p>
<p>If a 20 year old man does 65 pushups, 77 situps, and runs the 2 mile in 13:10 he will score a 287.</p>
<p>Minimum passing score is 180 </p>
<p>The difference in the "standard" is certainly there there but it is no way near that being reported at AF. Is that the issue? Perhaps the AF test is very different?</p>
<p>shogun:</p>
<p>I crunched some numbers for you: If someone maxed the PFT by the women's standards, which is 8 pullups, 7'02" standing long jump, 95 situps, 48 pushups, and a 1:53 600 yd sprint, she would get a 500 in the women's standards, but a 263 in the men's, which is barely above passing. (250)</p>
<p>For the men to max the PFT, they have to do 21 pullups, a 8'08" standing long jump, 95 situps, 72 pushups, and a 1:35 600 yd sprint.</p>
<p>Ahh, I can see a lot of the difference now--the tests are very different---
Is the test at the AFA the same one that is administered to airmen and officers yearly? I guess what Im asking is, do Air Force Officers take the same events in a yearly test after they graduate, or is this test specific to the academy?</p>
<p>So at AFA cadets do NOT take the Air Force Physical Fitness Test? The one that is used by Active duty personnel?</p>
<p>Sorry shogun - didn't see your post -
I think the AF PFT taken by officers is similar to the APFT - pushups, crunchs and run ...</p>
<p>The test given at USAFA is not the same one as taken by officers. The USAFA PFT, the one I described above, is unique to the Academy. </p>
<p>Seniors in their last semester take the AF PFT instead of the USAFA one, which is the one taken by active duty personnel.</p>
<p>It is probably worth noting that the small percentage of cadets who complain that our PFT is not fairly set up for men are most likely the same people would like to see the AF PFT replace the USAFA one.</p>
<p>now I'm confused. Guy4Christ, some people apparently think the current test is not fairly set up for men .... but didn't someone say more women are on recondo? That would have led me to understand it was harder for women to pass. I recognize the numbers noted by Redhead indicate a perfect score for women barely passes for men - but if the test is unfairly set up for men why are more women on recondo than men? </p>
<p>I'm certainly not trying to argue it - just confused!</p>
<p>I haven't heard the "unfair for men" argument. I have heard the argument that the USAFA PFT favors shorter people who have more "explosive" ability. I think that is somewhat accurate, except for the run.</p>
<p>The AF PFT consists of push-ups, sit-ups, a 1.5mi run, and a waist measurement. It is the one that factors age into the scoring system. </p>
<p>Personnally, I would much rather do the AF PFT. It contains the events that I am better at (and the waste measurement would be a guaranteed max for me,lol).</p>
<p>For those who are interested, the "Bring Me Men" quote is actually part of an old poem that talks about wanting people with excellent qualities.</p>
<p>Perhaps my reference was a bit misplaced...sorry if that was confusing. What I probably should have said is that people who have ANY issue with the current PFT are the same ones who would like to see the active-duty AF PFT replace it.</p>
<p>And as raimus points out, Bring Me Men is from a poetic work that is very inspiring.</p>
<p>"Bring me men to match my mountains,
Bring me men to match my plains;
Men to chart a starry empire,
Men to make celestial claims.
Bring me men to match my prairies,
Men to match my inland seas;
Men to sail beyond my oceans,
Reaching for the galaxies.
These are men to build a nation,
Join the mountains to the sky;
Men of faith and inspiration,
Bring me men, bring me men, bring me men!
Bring me men to match my forests,
Bring me men to match my shore;
Men to guard the mighty ramparts,
Men to stand at freedom's door.
Bring me men to match my mountains,
Men to match their majesty;
Men to climb beyond their summits,
Searching for their destiny."</p>
<p>Sam Walter Foss - 1894</p>
<p>Thanks! I just realized I forgot that. :)</p>
<p>I wonder what the thought process is behind AFA cadets not taking the same physical fitness test that they will be taking the remainder of their careers in the Air Force? I can see where the academy test would tend to hi-lite a larger difference between men and women than would the "Post-Academy testing." Perhaps one factor in the perception of women at the academy vs men for the "20%" that have an issue with them (?)--possibly easily rectified by modifying the test to more resemble the testing they will have after the Academy in the Air Force?--Just kinda thinking out loud here....(dangerous, I know :) )</p>
<p>yeah - I was thinking the same thing - makes you wonder how the numbers were created and why.......</p>
<p>I know the APFT and AFPFT measure essentially the same skills - run, pushups and crunchs (sit-ups) save for the waist measurement that AF does - I wonder if the passing and maxing numbers are the same....</p>
<p>I think Shogun and I assumed that cadets took a test similar to USMA and one used on active duty - dangerous to assume, I know!</p>
<p>
[quote]
Thanks! I just realized I forgot that.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No problem Guy4Christ - he was a friend of my grandmother. :)</p>
<p>I think a lot of miscommunication and assuming just cleared up a lot of this! :) The only thing I (think I) know about the USNA physical test is that it integrates our two into one by including aerobic running but eliminating things like pull-ups. I saw on TV that USMA has an obstacle course portion? </p>
<p>Honestly, if one can pass the USAFA PFT/AFT, then you can get above an 80 or 85 on the AF PFT. I know I would much rather take the AF PFT! Our PFT will make you sick all day long! (I know a guy who tasted blood in his throat after running a 1:30 600 yd). </p>
<p>Man, I think most of us just had some epiphanies here! :)</p>
<p>On the other hand, having such an notoriously difficult PFT here at the Academy helps to ensure that the officers that graduate from here at least start their careers in more than just adequate physical shape.</p>
<p>I'm pretty sure that that is the intent behind the system. I think it would be better to demand higher standards on the same test, but I guess it's good to be able to do pull-ups too, lol.</p>
<p>Maybe it's good that this thread has been buried for awhile. But I have a question for the current cadets: is the reason for the 20% (who think women should not be at the academy) perhaps relating to how the academy deals with women who do not meet the female standards? </p>
<p>I have heard that the academy tolerated failure here to absurd degrees (to maintain the female population) so that men who fail their standards are much more likely to be booted during basic then females who fail theirs. This created asome pretty bad resentment that could have been eliminated by equal treatment. Would be very interested in understanding if this was true or just a wrong perception that I may have. Thanks</p>
<p>I honestly haven't really heard or noticed much of that. Perhaps some of my companions have seen otherwise, though.</p>
<p>Speaking of movies made at the Air Force Academy, does anyone know when this one will be finished?</p>
<p>Wings</a> of Honor: The Heart and Soul of the United States Air Force Academy</p>
<p>It is a movie about what it is like to be a cadet at the Academy. The trailer posted on the website has been there for quite sometime now, and looks quite fascinating, but no news about when it will be completed and/or released. Does anyone here from the Academy have any other information about it?</p>