<p>I wasn’t insinuating anything about “slothful” parents. Parents should have nothing to do with it. All of these kids admitted to Vandy are legally ADULTS. Going forward, for the next four years of their life, if it is true that all of their academic credentials are essentially equal, many are getting SUBSTANTIAL amounts of money, and others are getting NOTHING–all based on the financial status of their parents. What an independent-minded 18-year old who gets nothing feels under this scenario, is that the University considers them less worthy. But their hard work and accomplishments and future potential is their OWN, not their parents. And Money talks. To require kids to pay full price (very high compared to other colleges and for which loans would make no sense) forces these kids to remain tied to their parent’s purse strings for 4 more years. The kids who receive the aid have NO strings attached to anyone–their parents or the University. They don’t even have to maintain a particular GPA to qualify. To a kid, money, regardless of how the University wants to label it, equals scholarships. And, to them, scholarships translate into how much the University values their attendance. Or, conversely, how gullible the University thinks their parents are.</p>
<p>kasiiaaa,</p>
<p>you’re right…I misread your post about the big house… I don’t mean to rag on you…I’m sure you will do great and this isn’t about you at all. It’s just the frustration some of us feel…but there are great options for all of us somewhere.</p>
<p>It’s just getting so much more expensive to go to college. We did not even apply for FA but 56,000 a year is frightening!! I do not even know what the cut offs are but it is a very big sacrifice if families are paying full price. This is a choice we are making but now many more families are wondering if it really is affordable?? I always thought, we could swing this with 529 plans and parent contributions but it will be very tricky. Many more people are frightened. The full payers will be very reluctant now more than ever to not get caught donating also. People who have money are quickly running out. College is going UP UP Up but income and extra cash is down.</p>
<p>I am afraid that tuition for the full-payers will dramatically increase after this upcoming year, due to inflation, decreasing quantity and value of endowments, and fewer “full-payers” matriculating than planned. This could be very devastating emotionally for kids who may have to transfer out as sophomores. Something to think about.</p>
<p>Yikes, I hope that does not happen because the full payers do not get their FA increased with inflation. A merit scholarship at a state school my son received would increase as the tuition increased each year. I only wish he loved this school as much as Vandy!! One year at a time is all we can do. Times are a changing for sure. Hang in there all!!</p>
<p>As an 18 yr. old I have no trouble understanding that need based aid is - are you ready for the surprise answer? - is based on NEED, not the value of the student. I believe that Vanderbilt, being one of the few schools to be 100% need blind while guarenteeing to meet 100% of demonstrated need is able to choose the absolutely best students possible - this is a win win situation for the entire class. It sounds as if some people on this thread would be happier if Vanderbilt did not meet need or give out any need based financial aid. Vanderbilt would be quite a different place if every student there was capable of paying 56k a year, it would also be a school I wouldn’t be interested in. Universities that have stepped up to the plate to make higher education affordable to low income students are doing a great service for our country.</p>
<p>Many Vanderbilt students receive academic merit awards and no financial aid. And not all kids think financial aid money equals scholarship money- my daughter definitely knows the difference between an academic scholarship and financial aid, of which she received neither.
Nor did she ever feel less valued as a student in her 4 years at Vanderbilt because she received no money. </p>
<p>And to my surprise, most of the graduate school programs my daughter applied to still required the parents financial information- so much for being independent:)</p>
<p>Well folks, this thread has been an eye-opener for me. My S has been admitted to elite private colleges including Vanderbilt ( towards which we were leaning to until last weekend) and the top 3 public schools in the nation - all out of state - so we would anyway end up paying.</p>
<p>We have been doing financially well all these years and saved our share of college education for our kids. But 2 years ago when I was laid off and jobs were getting difficult to come by - we had a choice to make.
A) Either use up the savings on day to day expenses until we find jobs - or
B) put all our savings and investments into a startup software product company that we had been working on the part time basis - but was not going anywhere because the full time job took up almost 14-16 hours every day.</p>
<p>Option A meant we would defintely end up not having enough for S’s college - and the longer it took to find jobs the lesser chance of ever sending him to school</p>
<p>Option B meant that if we did everything right then we might pretty much end up having enough to send all our kids for college and retire as well. The timing was good, the concept was well received and success was quite certain. But if it failed, then we would still be in the same position as Option A, except we would have built up some assets at least - not cash.</p>
<p>Therefore we chose Option B. Things went very well, the product is in its beta - but just as the investors were getting ready - the financial meltdown happened. End of Story.</p>
<p>We still have a product, but the long story short - we have no cash - no savings - we might still come out of it very high - but it will definitely take another year. Have not taken a salary in the last two years. Subsisting on loans and credit card debts. But luckily, we were able to help our children with their academics and S has done very well and deserving of scholarships.</p>
<p>So, thankfully the needbased aid saved us. Vandy is giving full ride and the public schools are also giving great grants and scholarships and reasonable loans.</p>
<p>But seeing this thread has opened up our eyes. Apparently there are many parents who are “fullpayers” - who rightfully or otherwise think that their children are getting short changed. It also seems as if many of the Vandy students also seem to share that opinion. We definitely do not wish for our S to spend the next four years ( although we might be out of our troubles in the next year) being blamed for getting a full ride. I want the next four years to be the most productive and enjoyable years - he has worked really hard - we have worked really hard - but we ended up short and we as parents dont want our son to be miserable because of our failings. SO, our decision was made, after reading similar forums - that we will be sending our son to a prestigious public school - even if it means that we might end up increasing our debt.</p>
<p>johnnycomelately-
I am so sorry you feel that way- I really do not believe your son would be “blamed” for his parents financial circumstances. We are not wealthy by any means but we are full payers & I do not resent those that do receive financial aid and hope that I have not implied that. This is not a common topic of conversation of students at school- they have way too much to think of. Yes, I can see how some parents might be bitter- but I would never impose this on my child! Financial aid is there for a reason and the EFC is determined by the government not by the school- how they determine it could be called into question, but that’s another story! My daughters group of friends are from all different types of backgrounds & while money may be a topic at times it is their goals for the future not what their parents may or may not have!!! To pass up full financial aid at a school like Vanderbilt because of this is a shame, although I can understand how you must feel. I am sure your son will have a great experience at the school he is chosen but please if Vanderbilt is his first choice don’t let it go because of a few sour grapes. My daughter has had such an awesome experience ( not without some drama!) and neither I nor my husband regret for one minute that we will be paying for this for some time…</p>
<p>^^^
I couldn’t agree more. I’m guessing the last thing kids will be talking about next year is how much financial aid they are getting from Vandy. And I suspect that to be true whether it is need based or merit based. Frankly, I think concerning yourself with who is getting what and whether a few parents are bitter because they are paying full freight where others aren’t is a horrible way to pick a school. </p>
<p>There are over 1600 incoming freshmen starting at Vandy in the fall, what percentage of them are represented on this board? Maybe 2%, if that.</p>
<p>miasmom - I appreciate your kind words. Our decision was not based on this one factor, although it was the most significant. We liked our visit to Vanderbilt and everything about the university was a good fit - but at their age, acceptance by peers plays an important factor in freeing up one’s mind for joyful learning, intellectual exploration and physical growth. There will always be many other things working against him, to an equal measure, like his own character, attitudes, ethnicity and religion - and we just did not want to add one more. </p>
<p>For the record, I do not know who is right or wrong - except that I do understand that the system is not fair on everyone - or is it, in the final analysis?. </p>
<p>Hard work, honesty, integrity, good planning and family values are all great attributes to bring to an institution and those who have lived around those principles must never be made to feel like Losers. But denying those very values on others just because they are in financial need is also not fair or right - but that judgment is inevitable and is made quite often. </p>
<p>What is not completely understood by many is that - that is the way of the system. At any point there will always be some “haves” supporting the many “have-nots” in our current social and economic infrastructure, as it is set up now. It cannot sustain without that balance. Only the players are constantly changing but the roles and the ratio will remain unchanged. For lack of any better explanation, let me just say, that “Balance” defines the “Capacity” of our economic system. There is just not enough money in this world to back the financial needs of the entire population and there never will be - in the monetary system.</p>
<p>I apologize for the diversion, but that is the way I try to reconcile these issues 
</p>
<p>In the end, it is not the location that determines our son’s success, but rather his character and attitude. Therefore, I am sure all our kids will end up fine.</p>
<p>johnnycomelately, it is a big mistake to assume posters on this thread are representative of the either the Vanderbilt student body or their families. Many people are very disappointed and some are bitter. For whatever reason, they are inspired to let off steam by posting on an anonymous board. </p>
<p>FWIW, my son’s gf attends Vanderbilt on a whopping needs-based aid award; not full-ride but very close. I very much doubt that anyone knows or cares. She is a serious student who is quite involved in campus and community life, likes it at Vanderbilt very much and, to my knowledge, has no complaints.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I wouldn’t have bothered to respond except for that line. If your son liked his visit and everything is a good fit, I am tempted to gently encourage you to rethink your decision. </p>
<p>I know, it is a tough decision, and I fully understand your concern for his happiness and overall satisfaction. I just am not convinced that a significant portion of the student body at Vanderbilt cares how various students are financing their studies.</p>
<p>yes johnniecomelately you are right- I wish I could tell more of my daughters story but it is hers to tell and believe me it has been quite a ride. So many things have happened and we have said it “builds character” that it got to the point where we had to laugh and say “enough character already”. We have chalked it all up to life experience, and yes, through all of it she has learned so much and come out stronger. Some day (with her permission)
maybe I’ll post her story just to show that no matter how much planning we did, how hard she worked, unexpected, absolutely undreamed of events can turn everything upside down!
Through it all it was her character, integrity and truly good people surrounding her that made it possible to have such a positive outcome! I am so thankful for the experience that she has had at Vanderbilt , and to the people of Nashville, for helping to make what at one time seem an impossible situation a dream come true! Good luck to your son!</p>
<p>midmo, you bet it was tough decision. Fortunately, we did not compromise on any of his choices or needs. Both of our final options were his “first” choices. He had left it completely to us. The only impact our decision would have made is on us - the parents. We have to sacrifice on debt and distance. The other school is on the west coast. But in the end the way I see it is - we had made some mistakes so we ended up making the sacrifice. Hopefully it works out for the best. </p>
<p>The only irony in all this is that we set out on this path just so that we would not be in this position - but fortunately, Need Based Aid has absolutely been a godsend for us. When we get out of our troubles, we intend to contribute generously towards educational institutions - that is a promise.</p>
<p>miasmom - just saw your post - you are right to be proud of sticking it out - your daughter is a better person for that sacrifice. That is, as you rightly said, Life. And I say, bring it on…</p>
<p>johhnycomelately, your mind is made up & you have done what you feel is best for your personal situation. But I would like to take the opportunity to tell anyone else reading this that reading the College Confidential Vanderbilt thread is NOT … I repeat, NOT … a good indicator of the school experience. I suspect most students are far too busy to post here - I know my D certainly is. If she did post, she would have a much different story to tell than most who post here. Many things go into choosing a college. If CC is the only deal-breaker, that is sad.</p>
<p>By coincidence, I spoke to my daughter (a sophomore) just after reading this and told her about it. She said essentially: “There is snobbism of all kinds at Vandy – all kinds except on the basis of whether you get financial aid. Kids who have merit scholarships can be snobs, kids who are in Engineering or A & S might be snobs toward Peabody, kids who have tons of money for cars, vacations, and clothes might be snobs, but nobody has ever expressed any resentment toward people being here for an education thanks to need-based financial aid.” As we spoke further, she said: Tell the cc people that the students here are very serious about education, and they only people they “resent” are people who are here despite not being smart enough, or serious enough about studying, to be here. Based on other debates we’ve had, I think she means athletes and beneficiaries of “affirmative action.” They don’t care how rich you are as much as how smart you are. Another, perhaps more serious, problem in attitude at Vandy. How typical are my daughter’s views? I have no idea.</p>
<p>Hmmm, based on my D’s observations, your D’s views are typical for her. My D’s views on that last observation differ.</p>
<p>I see that one can easily conclude from my earlier post that our decisions were made based on the chat on these forums. I must clarify that reading the forums only identified this as an issue for us and motivated me to respond to this thread and voice my concerns rather than make the decision itself. </p>
<p>While the CC forum has been very informative and relevant - we do understand the dynamics of these forums. Signing up 4 years of your child’s life to any institution is a huge decision and cannot be made on hearsay and unsubstantiated information. Therefore, to make a decision of this magnitude and attributing it solely to this forum and its participants is not only irresponsible but also unfair to the CC community.</p>
<p>Here is a list of issues we debated on before arriving at our decision:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Are we compromising or hurting his academic choices and college options - answer was a clear NO.
This was the most important parameter. So we spent a lot of time polling family, friends and their friends from around the country, in the academia and business circles and used their informed suggestions to come to this conclusion.</p></li>
<li><p>Should we add a new variable that could potentially ruin his college experience - answer was NO.
Although we recognized the peer issue only from the forums, we did a lot of research online as well. As everyone else have stated here, we did find out that financial aid is NOT a matter that is commonly discussed on campuses. We just decided that we did not want to add another distraction, thats all. This aspect of financial need was not even in our discussions, until of course, we chanced upon these discussions on the forums.</p></li>
<li><p>Can we ( parents ) handle the additional debt - answer was WE CAN and WE MUST - but only if absolutely required and is conditional in that - we expect our son to honor his part of the bargain - and that is to stay focussed on education, stay involved in community and develop into a responsible and contributing adult. We stop our support at the first sign that he has wavered.</p></li>
<li><p>Will this decision benefit someone else equally deserving - answer was YES ( that is what I meant by eye opener) - until we started on the forums, we were only thinking about ourselves, immersed in our own issues, choices and options - but we quickly found how so many others are also hurting badly and that our decision might possibly help others.</p></li>
<li><p>How important are peer groups and life outside the classroom v/s classroom experience - Equally, if not more important. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>As you can see, like everyone else here, we too have put in a lot of effort and research into our decisions. And we hope that everything will work out as planned. Most of the other common elements like academics, athletics, community service, research opportunities, prestige, institutional commitment to education etc were pretty much the same in our choices.</p>
<p>Thank you all for your sincere responses. I thought I have answered to all of them in as much detail as I could. </p>
<p>May 1st is still 9 days away and anything can change - I dont know if I would be glad or sad after May 1st - but I do know that we gave it our best, as always :-)</p>
<p>One thing I must add here is that I am totally impressed by the college admissions process. For students aspiring towards great education, tt starts in the Freshman year of High school and ends 4 years later in their senior years. As parents you will agree that this process brings out what is best in them. I am inspired by the hard work and sincere involvement of the admissions officers in many of these colleges - hats off to them - absolutely. They have made an impossible job easy for the faculty - getting the best possible mix of students into their classes. It is now up to the faculty and the institutions to take each of these amazing students and bring out the unique gems in each of them. I can see the pride and the pain in all the parents - and their children. Every one of the parents deserve nothing less than the very best for their children. I hope that you all get exactly that and nothing less. Good Luck.</p>
<p>how can any one person determine whether someone else is “smart” enough to be at Vanderbilt? As for the athletes- that is definitely not a “free ride” as any athlete would know- given the time and training it takes to perform at that level & go to class!
Vanderbilt has one of the highest, if not the highest, graduation rates in the country for its athletes. I have never heard my daughter say she, or any of her friends, “resent” anyone- they just don’t have the time:)</p>
<p>johnnycomelately,
I would like to apologize if any thing I said on this topic was hurtful. I have no resentment towards anyone who is getting aid. At the time of my posts, i was just feeling a bit nervous about writing the check, naturally because it is alot but do not harbor any hostility towards people getting aid. Thank god, there is some balance. I think my concern was only the price tag in general, not the percentage that people are paying. I wish you and your son the best and hope you have a better next few years. I do want to add one thing in regard to student athletes. we had a relative years back who was on a full athletic scholarship, and she sacrificed alot to play the sport at the school. The sports add to the culture on campass and do add to the flavor. This student may of not gotton in for academics but she put her heart and soul into her sport and made the school proud. This is part of the holistic picture in student body.</p>