<p>^I’m referring to the Financial aid at top private institutions, not others. I’m poor and don’t have to pay a dime to attend several top tear universities of my choice, and the ones that didn’t offer a completely free ride I don’t have to pay much, and there were way more scholarships that I qualified for because I was poor than my friend did, some of which I’ll probably get, meaning my cost to even more schools will be zero.</p>
<p>I understand the situation is different at different schools that I don’t know too much about. The entire point of the rant was directed at the picture many top universities paint that they will make education affordable to all students who choose to attend. I don’t think it’s crazy that my friends have to acquire debt, I think it’s crazy the amount of debt they’re expected to take on after the schools say “They don’t want cost to be a deterrent from matriculating”. Their parents aren’t willing to pay nothing, they just only pay for a fraction of the costs, and the students still have to take on 100k plus debt for their four years, which is around ten times the institutional average in debt most of their students take out according to their reports. </p>
<p>if that’s the average, why do I find so many kids in this situation? I feel as though we’ve been repeatedly lied to.</p>
<p>I honestly think something needs to be done about tbe actual cost of college. Im seeing tuition rates steadily increase. Classes at the school im going to have raised the cost of classes at least $250 since I started. If this continues, will anyone other than the wealthy be able to go? </p>
<p>The cost of tuition is getting out of control. </p>
<p>Maybe tuition in VA is high compared to other states but I pay in state because I have lived here since I was born and if I moved then id have to pay out of state.</p>
<p>tipa891…The problem is too many people refuse to see these universities as anything other than “wonderful places of education that will help my little snowflake learn and grow”. They’re not…they’re businesses offering a product, and as such they have glossy brochures and a great sales pitch to try and convince you to buy their product. And many of them are just as slimy as the worst used car salesman. But that doesn’t mean the buyer (parents/student/whomever) doesn’t bear just as much responsibility as the seller. </p>
<p>How on God’s green earth do people enter into a process as important as the education of their children without doing their due diligence in researching the schools before applying? If people are so gullible that they hear “They don’t want cost to be a deterrent from matriculating” and somehow translate that into “They’ll give my little snowflake more than enough to attend” then those people are just the suckers these schools are looking for. As a minimum they’ll get your $60-$80 application fee before giving a unworkable FA offer (that these families should’ve anticipated in the first place). To make it worse, too many of these families (still ignoring reality after the FA offer kicks them in the teeth) make yet another foolish and irresponsible decision to take out unmanageable amounts of loans to keep the “dream school” alive.</p>
<p>If a middle class family wants to apply to a few elite “reach” schools, by all means do so. But if they are not in a position to pay AT LEAST their FAFSA EFC (probably more since the schools compute their own EFC and student contributions) exactly why would they be so foolish as to waste their time, money, and emotional investment into something that they should’ve known wasn’t going to pan out? </p>
<p>These elite schools do make it affordable for all students to attend…it’s just that their definition of “affordable” differs greatly from yours. You call it lies…they call it salesmanship. If this offends you so greatly, you’d better prepare yourself for a lifetime of being offended by every major financial transaction that occurs from here on out; cars, houses…you name it. The difference is, not everyone is gullible enough to fall for it. If you want to be incensed at the schools…have at it. You can think of these people as “victims”, I’ll choose to call them willing albeit uninformed and naive participants.</p>
<p>To paraphrase a line from Animal House…“You screwed up…you trusted us”. You just never know where you’ll find true pearls of wisdom.</p>
<p>What I don’t understand is, where are these children leading such an idyllic life that they are surprised, no * stunned * when presented with evidence that indicates " ** life is not fair **"?
It was never meant to be fair, it is not designed to be fair. Complaining about " life isnt fair" is like complaining that grass isnt orange!.</p>
<p>Living in this country, in this age, is like hitting the lottery.
Too bad some don’t appreciate it.</p>
<p>I get the whole “life isn’t fair, so deal with it” concept. It’s something we’ve always talked about as a family. Here’s the problem: I was raised in a very low-income home and understand where some of the comments come from. That being said $100,000 is not wealthy. Taxes for a $100,000/year family are astronomical, so what that family actually has available to spend is FAR less than that. There is no way to put two kids through school with a 7.9% parent-plus loan at twice your EFC on each child and still be financially responsible. And when those kids who have been told to work hard, keep their grades high, take AP/Honors courses, extracurricular activities, volunteer, and keep a job in hopes of getting merit aid only to find out that the most needy get the merit aid first so chances are you may get a few thousand dollars or none at all, they have every right to be frustrated and disappointed.</p>
<p>I am in a clarification campaign here. When you reach the point that “you may get a few thousand dollars or none at all”, you are not getting anything. Whit a few exceptions, when you reach this point:
You fully paid your dues.
You helped to subsidise the finaid of other folks (at some schools, your payments are subsidising around 30% of a low-EFC recipient finaid).</p>
<p>The same way that when the government gives you a tax deduction, you did not get a <em>free gift</em> from the government. The government is just returning back to you some of the excess that they collected.</p>
<p>AliT…You’re mixing terms somewhat here. While there are some universities whose merit scholarships may have a need component considered, for the vast majority of schools MERIT awards are GPA/test score driven and ECs/volunteer work/community service/etc. factor in as well. Poor families have no “extra access” to merit scholarships, only to need-based FA.</p>
<p>What I find to be sad (and in some cases pathetic) is the obsession that so many students/families have with attending “elite” schools. For the most part, these are the whiners you’ll read posts from here on CC. You’ll recognize them by the “I worked too hard in HS to be forced to attend a lowly state public university” mantra. For intelligent young adults and their families…they’re really not that smart if they’re not able to read the tea leaves of FAFSA and all the other sources of FA information available (like CC threads) to have a reasonable expectation of what these elite schools might offer as an FA package. They couldn’t find these threads the entire time they were researching colleges, building a list, and submitting applications but they managed to find them just in time to post a whiny little rant about how unfair life is? Really?? They thought CSS Profile might give them a more favorable FA outlook than FAFSA did? Really?? They thought that these “elite” schools actually consider the FAFSA or CSS bottom line and don’t re-work the numbers to compute their own definition of “demonstrated need”? Really??</p>
<p>For the vast majority of middle/upper middle class families, the opportunities for an affordable college education lie in merit scholarships combined with whatever the family was willing/able to save over the years, and PERHAPS augmented by SMALL loans if NECESSARY (most common sense folks here would recommend nothing higher than Stafford limits). If these students have the resume to gain admission to the elite schools, they’ll be competitive for high dollar merit scholarships at many of these public institutions as well. Unfortunately, they think themselves too high and mighty to attend any school that (gasp!!) has a state name in it’s title or (double gasp!!) even worse a compass direction. They ignored or bypassed opportunties for an excellent, affordable education because they were blinded by a sales pitch, be it the university’s or society’s or USNWR’s…or some combination of all of the above.</p>
<p>Again…with very few exceptions universities that award good merit scholarships don’t care what your income level is, they only care what your child has achieved as a student and as a citizen. I feel sorry for families that are too blind to recognize the quality and value that an education from these institutions can provide.</p>
<p>I agree with the OP(although I may be bias because I’m in this situation.) I have a friend who is “poor” but wears more name brand clothes than I do, although he lives in an apartment(I live in a house.) His mother is unemployed- which is not her fault considering that she is having citizenship troubles- but both of my parents are in their mid 50’s and work two jobs each 7 days a week. They have no lives- all they do is work, eat, and sleep(barely) just to try to provide for me. Neither of them is college educated, yet just because they are middle class, society believes that I have more “opportunities.” I went through the college process by myself, had no help(no tutors, mentors, etc.) I have no connections and I am a minority. I have just as few opportunities as my friend, and I got a full tuition scholarship from a great school, but my parents can’t afford room and board. He, on the other hand, did the same as me academically but did no activities except for a job(I have a job as well- two, in fact.) I have busted my butt for years while he(to be honest) did not do much, and I have to take out loans to go to a school(that is not my top choice but have moved up on my list due to FA.) He only has to pay 1,000 dollars. I would have to take out roughly 30,000 dollars in loans(un subsidized.) It’s ridiculous and I save more than he does! I’m penalized for my parents working hard even though they started at the very bottom. My parents don’t have glamorous jobs either- they are physically laborious but they get the bills paid. AND my “poor” friend has a car, and I do not and I see this a lot in my school. I’m not saying that he shouldn’t receive FA but the way that schools go about calculating it is wrong- we make a combined amount of 130,000 a year before taxes and are expected(by our EFC and my original top choice school, which is not feasible because they only give need based aid) to pay 30,000! I don’t understand. I’m kind of ****ed that I was lied to repeatedly, when I was told by college FA people over and over that cost would not be much of an issue because they give good FA packages, this, that, and the other. My parents are not college educated and had no real idea of what they would need to save for me to go to college which is not the College’s fault, I know. And I am very fortunate that I have another choice that is completely free(other than my local CC) but like the OP said, it’s ridiculous that my state school is charging me 30k a year</p>
<p>Thanks BobWallace…I feel the same way about your posts. Us common sense folks gotta stick together on these threads. :)</p>
<p>Jazmine…I’m glad to see that you at least applied to some schools that would give you enough merit money to bring them into play, but I’m also a little perplexed. If I read correctly, your parents make $130,000 combined per year but haven’t saved anything for your college education. Have they saved anything at all for any purpose? If so, that money could be used to offset your room and board costs even though they may not have “earmarked” it for that purpose originally. If not, regardless of how hard they’ve worked, that’s very poor planning on their part.</p>
<p>Room and board expenses at most universities fall into the $8K-$12K range if you’re living on campus, and usually less if you can live off campus and manage your expenses well. Even if your parents don’t have “lump sum” savings/investments they could draw on to pay those costs, are you saying that they’re living paycheck to paycheck at a combined salary of $130K per year? IF you took out your Stafford loans (and I’m CERTAINLY NOT saying you should) those costs would drop to closer to $3K-$6K initially (less in subsequent years as Stafford amounts increase) for your parents’ contribution. With the salary income you describe, that amount should be within reach from current income if not from savings. There are often extenuating circumstances, but every family has their own set of them and deals with them in their own way…some better than others.</p>
<p>It sounds like you’ve done your part to line up some potentially affordable options for yourself. You now need to differentiate between what you WANT but can’t have (top choice school that only offers need-based FA) and what you NEED (an affordable college education that minimizes or eliminates debt). Sit down with your parents and ask them to honestly re-evaluate their financial situation. If your numbers are correct, I have trouble believing there aren’t some workable solutions.</p>
<p>In any case, blaming universities because you bought into their line of BS or coveting your “poor” friend’s possessions isn’t the way to go. Bitterness and jealousy will get you nowhere in life. Be grateful for what you have, because a majority of families would trade places with you in a heartbeat. Take advantage of the opportunities you’ve made for yourself. I guarantee those opportunities are much better than you think they are now, but you need to embrace them and excel in order to maximize those benefits. Dwelling on what might have been or what other people have is just a waste of time.</p>
<p>my mother is a single mother of 3 chidren and only making minimum wage. Our income is less than $20k year and I still had to take on 43,000 and counting in loans for undergrad years!</p>
<p>Wolverine86-
I agree that my parents did plan poorly, and they do have some saved but it is not enough to cover room and board for even a year. I did not mean to come off as jealous of my friend, I was just stating facts. My parents also are the main providers(my dad especially) for their families- cousins, uncles, sisters, brothers, parents, etc. I think my parents underestimated college costs, but it is very easy as a person on CC to immediately blame the parents for not knowing- not everyone is as knowledgeable about college expenses as the people on CC. I have spoken with my parents about their poor financial planning and they always seem to come up with excuses. I’m not trying to shift the blame from my parents onto others, but I do believe that other middle class families go through this same struggle, whether their parents saved
Or not.</p>
<p>(Paragraphs just for you, BobWallace.) I am perfectly content with going to another school on my list that is cheaper(the one that have me full tuition) but what about the people who are middle class who were not lucky enough to get significant scholarships? What happens to them?</p>
<p>“Maybe tuition in VA is high compared to other states but I pay in state because I have lived here since I was born and if I moved then id have to pay out of state.”</p>
<p>in-state tuition and fees at many state schools in VA is less than in-state tuition and fees at many state schools in other states. I do not believe that VA has the kind of state programs (like Bright Futures, Cal-Grant, etc…) that can assist with the costs.</p>
<p>maximum Pell (5600) and the student loan amount (5500) that a student can generally take without a co-signer is around 11,000 per year for a dependent freshman… 15,000 for an independent freshman (or a freshman whose parents apply for and do not qualify for a Parent PLUS loan)… the loan amount available goes up each year, so it is very possible for a student to accumulate quite a bit of loan debt in their own name… and this does not even consider Perkins loans if those are also in the aid package.</p>
<p>Yeah i’ve never even heard of calgrant, bright futures, or perkins. </p>
<p>I have PELL, unsubsidized and subsided loans. My first year or two I also had parent plus loan. I havent received help from any other type of program. </p>
<p>Dont look at poor and think free education. I have middle class friends and family (not immediate family) that have made comments to me about how its unfair their kids cant get a free education and at least I get grants. They have the mentality that the grant pays for it all. when I explained I have loans also, they acted like they dont believe me. How do you think you make poor students owing large amount of money feel when you talk and act this way toward them?</p>
<p>All of us in life whether rich, poor, or middle class make choices that drive our financial health. I am amazed at the number of poor who say that rich and middle class should have to pay more because they have the means. Well for many of those families they made choices that led to their financial health. To say that they should have to pay more for making good choices is ridiculous. The poor also made choices to have children as a single parent, to not go to college, some of them to not work, etc. To say that they deserve more help because many of them made poor choices is also ridiculous. The reality is there is really no fair way to determine need, because there is a whole lot more that goes into a family’s financial picture then just income. My dd is a middle class kid who is getting no help at our state school. A good friend of ours is divorced and the NCP makes a half a million dollars a year. Because the state school is FASFA only her son is getting full pell, perkins, and maximum subsidized loans because she as the CP doesn’t make very much. So here is a family who made a choice to get divorced, the father makes far more then my dh and I ever will and yet we are helping to pay for his grants while we have to pay full price out of pocket for our dd. Yeah it sucks… But it is what it is and we will do our best to deal with it.</p>
<p>Jazmine…The middle-class students whose GPA/test scores don’t qualify them for enough merit aid and whose families weren’t able/willing to save enough money still have options, although that brings us back to the “Want versus Need” discussion. These options aren’t easy or fun, and certainly aren’t the “desirable” college experience but students for decades have gone these non-traditional routes to get their educational NEEDS fulfilled.</p>
<ol>
<li> Forego attending college immediately after HS, and start working and saving what you can to put towards your education.<br></li>
<li> Fulfill your Gen Ed requirements at a local Community College (generally at a greatly reduced rate) to reduce the amount of time you’ll need to spend at the more expensive 4-year school to complete your degree.<br></li>
<li>Enter military service and use the benefits available both during and after service to complete anything from an associate’s degree through a doctoral degree.</li>
<li>Delay college entry until age 24, when you will be considered “independent” for FA purposes and thus qualify for more need-based FA than you would based on your parents’ financial situation.</li>
</ol>
<p>THOUSANDS of students have always found themselves needing to achieve their educational goals through one (or a combination) of these non-traditional routes, and I’m sure there are others besides what I’ve mentioned here. They’re not easy, especially given the ridiculous rate at which college costs have increased in comparison to every other cost of living standard. I also understand that every student would love to have the traditional 4-year, live on campus “college experience”, but that’s a luxury…not a right or an entitlement like some here on CC would like it to be. Again…wants versus needs.</p>
<p>IMO, many parents fall far short of their responsibilities when it comes to the whole “college process”. Not everyone can save for college expenses, but those that can but don’t are doing their children a disservice. Parents who don’t educate themselves and their children as to what college costs REALISTICALLY will be for their financial situation are setting their family up for heartbreak. Applying to “elite” schools with unrealistic expectations of FA is just one example. There’s nothing wrong with “shooting for the moon” as long as they understand the slim odds of admission/affordability etc. I think it’s a parental responsibility to provide the best educational opportunity that is AFFORDABLE for that family. That doesn’t mean the highest ranked school that you can gain admission to and it doesn’t mean mortgaging the student’s or the parents’ future by taking out unmanageable and unnecessary loans. Others will disagree, and you’ll find them ranting about fairness or inability to pay off huge debts…or both.</p>
<p>Each family needs to choose their own path, and accept the responsibility and the consequences that come with that choice. An informed choice (usually made with the head as opposed to the heart) is always the best option.</p>
<p>Octoberdana I understand what your saying but what about people that were born into poverty? </p>
<p>My mother was married when she had kids, yes my parents divorced but that is not my fault. </p>
<p>I have worked before and tried to get out of povery. I worked in retail for 8 bucks an hour, on my feet alk day, working at night. Ive also worked babysitting only to make $4 an hour, and another babysitting job to make $100 a week. </p>
<p>To be honest with you, working in those dead end minimum wage jobs is one of the reasons I started college:</p>
