Fine line for a parent--what to do?

Parents Forum
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<p>Having buyer's remorse, so to speak, even though it is not a "done deal" just yet. The situation we are in arose through athletic recruiting. DD wound up with 3 excellent options: Small private LAC an hour from home, elite-but-non-ivy within a half day's drive, and a top Ivy. Last week, she turned down a full academic/athletic ride to the private LAC nearest our home (which is a good school, but not of the academic caliber of the other two), and that seems like it was a good decision overall. As of tonight, she has decided to accept a spot at the "elite-but-non-ivy," as I have referred to it in some earlier posts b/c I don't want to name it for the sake of anonymity--and it is not Stanford or MIT). It is ranked in top 20 in the country, but does not have that amazing name recognition of the top Ivy that offered her a spot (it is HYP, one of those 3). However, this school offered full tuition/books/fees for 4 years, which is pretty amazing. The coach offered an excellent 4 year athletic package, covered even if she becomes injured. We are spared having to fill out FAFSA, CSS, etc., for the 4 years. If she performs well, even room/board will be covered in subsequent years--and she is the type of kid who loves to have a stake in things, to see that her hard work made more great things happen. This school is EXCELLENT for her major, plus it is within driving distance or a short flight (important to her). But her decision is not sitting well with me. I am riddled with worries.....</p>

<p>Background: She visited all three schools for 48 hours each, and this is the one where she felt most comfortable. The school has a strong emphasis on supporting and mentoring undergrads, lots of opportunities, happy undergrads, warmer climate/sunshine, but far less name recognition b/c it isn't a big football/SEC school, etc. (At the Ivy, she felt it had an uptight, overly serious vibe; she loved the coach, but the college as a whole just did not resonate with her). In terms of finances, we can afford the Ivy -- we have saved and could do it and are fortunate that this is the case, but it would not put us in same financial position as accepting this offer would; there are younger siblings in the pipeline. She is not privy to all the financial details just yet b/c we did not want this to be a huge deciding factor for her, but she will know once her decision is made.</p>

<p>I think it is because she was intimidated by the Ivy (a lot of wealthy, prep school kids from the east) and truly afraid of being so far from home (6 hrs of travel time to get home for one of the few direct flights, plus cold weather (she likes warm) and short, gray days.
She is a homebody and very close to her family. However, I see most of my friends' kids and so many parents/kids on college confidential not thinking twice about going far away for college (it's like that part of the equation is not even a consideration)--and wonder if we did something wrong. She is the youngest in her grade, but a gap year wouldn't work due to athletic eligibility issues and she is totally opposed anyway. </p>

<p>Family background: I went across the country to attend an Ivy (also youngest in my grade) and was miserable and a mess--I worry that her knowing about my experience has influenced her. (Her father attended an Ivy and did not have the academic preparation, had a tough time, and it was a negative experience b/c he was homesick and his parents had chosen the school; he felt he had no say in where he went). So there is parental baggage at play here. She has a much stronger academic background than either of us had and she has had a much more stable upbringing--but our family is very close-knit and traveling far and wide to embrace the world and new experiences is not a family value, as it is in some families. I wish it were. This was eons ago, but I arrived having never laid eyes on the campus until the day I moved in. My family was all about "getting in," not about what it would be like for me to actually be there for 4 years. Once I got in, it was all about accepting this opportunity. I think many families may operate that way, but some kids do far better than others (I did fine academically, but was miserable and did not have the inner resources to cope due to a lack of stability growing up--her life has been much more stable). It is a tall order for some kids to go far, but how do you know if your child can handle it? I worry that perhaps we SHOULD push her to accept the Ivy spot, but also wonder if she'll feel pushed beyond what she can really handle at this point (not academically, but emotionally). She makes really good grades, scores very high on standardized tests/AP exams, and makes a strong contribution to her endeavors, so my hope is that when the time is more right (when she is more mature and equipped to handle the distance), she will have these same opportunities to go east for graduate school. But there are no guarantees--the spot just came without warning (we didn't know it works this way) due to her athletic abilities (admissions reviewed her scores and grades, said yes, but the coach offered the "spot."). She also got very upset b/c all her friends told her she was crazy to consider turning the Ivy spot town. She also wants to be able to say the name of that Ivy because it impresses others. We told her that part of growing up is having to make hard choices, not being able to have all things. We encouraged her to "try on" each option for a full day and practice living in that reality and to see which felt right. She went back and forth and never could really settle down.</p>

<p>At one point a week or two ago, we encouraged her to go for the Ivy and accept the spot because 94% of applicants do NOT get a spot, and she might regret turning it down later. We wanted her to say yes IF she felt she could make something of the opportunity. We told her we would build more trips home (3-day weekends) into the budget, etc. But along the way, as she went back and forth, often when she mentioned accepting the spot at the Ivy, she would weave the word "should" heavily into the conversation, and she looked visibly tense and would unconsciously frown, then would become irritable; whenever she would get in the mindset that she would say yes to this other school (the elite non ivy) that is closer to home, she seemed happy and relaxed. She is a people-pleaser at heart and is just a really sweet person, so we shielded her from knowing the details of the financial differences and/or some of our fears and hesitations we have about both places. We really wanted this to be HER choosing what felt right, something we never experienced. It is such a fine line between knowing whether you are pushing your child or holding them back. Thoughts on this? Advice is welcome. It is not too late to go with either choice, but she seemed like she had decided in her own mind when she went to bed tonight. I still think she may regret not choosing the Ivy and worry that I am holding her back. Kids can sense things. I think if she goes to the Ivy, she'll do fine but will have to make a bigger effort to join groups, to fit in, will have a lot of homesickness and feelings of being out of place -- but will land on her feet. But is the bigger lesson to be true to herself and her gut feelings and not just go with the "name brand"? I think she will flourish at this middle school and will feel very little homesickness. She is introverted by nature, and the elite/non-ivy will provide a lot more support, partly b/c she will be a recruited athlete.</p>

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<p>When are the schools requiring her to make a choice? Kids can change a grow a lot in the SR year and if the schools aren’t requiring an answer NOW, perhaps give her some breathing room to think about it and find out what she feels like closer to when the decision needs to be given to the Us. For recruited athletes, do they have a shorter timeframe to reply than others who can inform Us by May 1? Kids can do a lot of growing between now and May 1 and still more before next fall.</p>

<p>My friend’s D waffled A LOT about where she wanted to attend. She was also a recruited athlete and wanted to continue her sport. It drove her folks crazy because she had a hard time making up her mind, but she finally chose a U that is two plane rides from HI and about 4500 miles. It worked OK for her, even though she was a bit homesick initially.</p>

<p>Kids have varying degrees of ease/difficulty adjusting. My kids didn’t tell me if they were ever homesick, but never asked to come home except for Christmas and summer breaks, so I took that as a pretty good sign. If the kid has the academic ability and prep, she can thrive where planted–she just has to decide where that should be.</p>

<p>One more thought–how is the ivy about accepting transfers, in case she goes to non-ivy and later decides she’d want to transfer, since you indicated full pay will be OK with you. Is that something that could make her choice less wrenching.</p>

<p>Also, be realistic about your finances. If you are full pay (or whatever) for this child at the ivy, will you really be able to let her sibs follow their dreams and attend whatever school THEY want?</p>

<p>Our S knew that we really wanted him to go to a U that gave substantial merit, since we felt he had a much better chance of merit than D. He willingly attended a good U that gave him a good merit award and we are grateful because it allowed us to help him graduate without debt and also allowed us to let D attend that same U with us paying full freight. </p>

<p>I have read of younger kids being upset that elder kid got to go to dream U but used up the family funds so that younger ones could only attend in-state U and couldn’t attend their U. Those younger kids resented the differential treatment. Just more food for thought. In these uncertain times, more families are choosing generous merit awards in light of the uncertainty of job security for many, etc.</p>

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<p>Ivy coach needs an answer in two days, unfortunately. They give these “spots” and if your child declines, they go down the list to next person in line. Ditto with the money offered from the other school. That “package” will expire, but she has a bit more time there. Unfortunately, she is eager to be out of this horrible state of ambiguity and sort of indicated to both coaches where she was leaning, so changing now would not look good–but it is not too late if she changes her mind in next day or so.</p>

<p>You raise a good point about the younger siblings. We’ve had that thought. As it stands, there is money for all 3 to go where they get in, regardless of where she goes. That is assuming job security remains for next 12 years </p>

<p>We had the transfer thought – doubt she would transfer TO the Ivy, but thought she might go there and transfer to the non-ivy if she was really not happy there.</p>

<p>Sounds like your kids did great/were not homesick. Were they far from home?</p>

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<p>My kids were 2500 miles from home; takes 5-6 hour plane ride. We live in HI and they attended USoCal. They had been to many vacations in LA & my best friends live in LA (tho the kids only saw them when we were in town or for Thanksgiving if they had no other plans). They had a lot of friends from their HS that also attended USC with them, which made it easier for them. My older one, S, is also a thrive where planted kid. He was there when D decided to transfer there to join him (tho their friends don’t overlap, it was good for her that he was there). Our family is VERY close, including all my sibs and their kids, all living in HI, except those away attending college. We were able to fly to visit the kids from time time time en route to meetings.</p>

<p>I think your D has to make the choice SHE will be happy with. Tell her there are NO wrong choices, she just has to make the choice SHE will be happy with. </p>

<p>Someone on another thread said that their coach said to choose a U that the student will be happy at even if unable to play that sport again (due to injury, change of interest, time commitments, or whatever). That sounds like great advice to me. Many kids decide for various reasons to drop their sport. They need to be sure they can still get their degree AND earn a living with that degree. I know many wonderful athletes who stopped their sport short of the 4 years they were in college for many reasons; I’m sure others do as well.</p>

<p>Ultimately, we had our kids choose their U because THEY were attending, not us. I think you need to back away and let your kiddo know it is HER choice, which you will fully support. She is fortunate to have two such wonderful options remaining. She needs to understand that once she makes her choice, she has to look and move forward and stop looking over her shoulder at the “road not taken.”</p>

<p>As an athlete, she has an added advantage of the team she can bond with, which should help improve adjusting into the campus she ends up attending. Remind her that she has worked hard to get to where she is–prepared academically and athletically to choose where SHE wants to go. </p>

<p>There are many who turn down HYP and do just great. My relative turned down Harvard med school to go to UCSF because it was so much cheaper and he felt he could (and did) get just a great an education there for a small fraction of the cost. He has never had any regrets but as honored to have been accepted by Harvard. :wink: He has been very successful in his medical career for decades now and is widely respected.</p>

<p>Also, 12 years can be quite a lot time to project for in terms of income. I have never held any job with a stable salary for more than 4 years at a time–have held a series of part-time jobs since 1998. H has had the same employer for 45 years but after he retired, his position was eliminated and 4 people and 3 contractors are struggling to do what he did single-handedly. I have known many people searching for jobs that had planned to stick with their employer and profession until they retired but life didn’t work out that way.</p>

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<p>I tried to pull out the important facts. Seems like she does know what she wants and what works for her. She seems to like the elite best in so many areas. Name recognition? I wouldn’t worry about that for a top 20 school.</p>

<p>You mention twice how she feels about the Ivy, and it is not good. Don’t push it. Congratulations on having such a wonderfully accomplished daughter. She sounds like she will be successful wherever she goes and it sounds like she has a great opportunity to achieve, learn and be happy at the top 20 school.</p>

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<p>I encouraged my close friend to have his son turn down HYP as recruited athlete for a lesser Ivy. While he has been at a prep school for HS, I worried he would be in lower half of class at HYP. He’d have less available hours to study. The young man favored one coach. I pushed them to think thru academics, location, ease of travel, and ultimate goals. The decision has turned out so well, that his younger sibling is applying to same college. This school has the program she wants, which HYP does not.</p>

<p>In the end, we have to listen to our children and be less influenced by others’ criteria.</p>

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<p>Please don’t push her to go somewhere she doesn’t want to go, even if it’s an Ivy. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a top-20 college that’s a good fit for your daughter, where the weather is better, that’s a little closer and easier to get home if necessary, where she’ll be more comfortable without feeling anxious at the thought of attending. She sounds like a wonderful young woman and she knows where she will thrive.</p>

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<p>If your child doesn’t want to travel across the country to go to school, why force it? It’s not that you failed her - it’s just who she is. Some kids can’t wait to go hours away - many others never leave a 1-2 hour radius. Here in North Carolina it’s the norm for kids to stay in-state. People can’t believe we “let” our child go 6 hours away. Don’t second-guess her. What, truly, are your major concerns? That she will regret going to a school with less prestige? You and your spouse went Ivy and hated it. Long term how will her life be negatively impacted by NOT choosing the Ivy? She’ll still get a great education at a strong school. Let her make her own decision.</p>

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<p>Your daughter’s preference for the non-HYP top 20 school is perfectly fine and legitimate, grounded in excellent reasons. Don’t undermine her choice or try to guilt her into going somewhere she doesn’t really want to go. Then you’ll really have remorse when she’s not happy and she blames you. Let her own this choice.</p>

<p>Don’t overestimate the difference between Ivy and other top schools. Her education will not suffer because her college is not a member of a particular Northeastern college athletic conference. Her choices are great and she cannot lose.</p>

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<p>This is what I get from your post:</p>

<p>HYP IVY</p>

<p>Pros: Name recognition.</p>

<p>Cons: She felt uncomfortable there. When she thinks about going there, she gets tense, irritable, unhappy, and uses the word “should”. It would be more expensive for your family. </p>

<p>OTHER COLLEGE</p>

<p>Pros: It is where she feels the most comfortable and is an excellent school for her major. It is closer to home and in a warmer climate, both of which she wants, and the undergraduates seem very happy. She would get full tuition/books/fees for four years with an excellent athletic package, which would cover her even if she were to be injured. There is also the possibility of room and board being covered later. As a recruited athlete she would get especially strong support, and the college provides lots of mentoring and opportunities for undergraduates. She is happy and relaxed when she talks about accepting their offer and you think she would flourish there.</p>

<p>Cons: It’s not HYP and she is concerned about what people would think if she went. (Is this even a con?)</p>

<p>I think you and your daughter both know the answer. :)</p>

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<p>What on earth makes you think that the Ivies are head and shoulders above other top 20 colleges? Don’t you get that this is all so much dancing on the head of a pin at this level?</p>

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<p>Trust your own experience. You didn’t like the Ivy. So yes it would be nice to say MY DD goes to HYP but wont it be nicer to have a happy daughter. I went to an Ivy and am very happy to have my sons pass on the pretension. Congrats on having choices. Congrats to your DD. Tell her to enjoy.</p>

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<p>As a Mom of 3, I would say read your child’s body and verbal language which you described vividly. I’m a firm believer in having your child attend the best school for them, not the best school they can get in to. There is more to school than the name brand and academics. It is a place where they should develop and thrive and hopefully become the person they are meant to be. Good luck to your family! :)</p>

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<p>Your D sounds great, trust her judgement.</p>

<p>It sounds like she’s done her due diligence and made the right decision for herself. I’m sure she learned a lot about herself in the process. You shouldn’t ask for less, but you can’t ask for more. </p>

<p>My D turned down a prize school and went with her gut. She’s now a senior, and has no regrets and has done stuff she couldn’t have done at the prize school. </p>

<p>Congrats, you are done!</p>

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<p>Every top 20 or similar school IS a name brand. You’re not buying generic paper towels here. I swear I don’t know how people get to adulthood and not get this.</p>

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<p>I’d like to add something else. If your daughter does choose that “it seems like a perfect fit for her” college, please buy into it totally. Don’t keep telling people that “She’s going to X, but she also had an offer from HYP school.” That might make her feel that her choice has disappointed you. Forget about HYP school. Get excited about X. Go there for a post-decision visit if you can and buy some t-shirts, sweatshirts, etc. for the family. Take her out for a meal and celebrate her decision!</p>

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<p>I completely agree. And, Pizzagirl, I think NYMom3Kids was referring to colleges in general, not whether this specific school and ones similarly “ranked” are well known.</p>

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<p>I’m with PG. your daughter is choosing a TOP TWENTY school. So what if it’s not an Ivy. Neither are at least 12 of the other top 20 schools. These are all excellent schools, your daughter LIKES this school, it has her intended area of study, and to sweeten the pot, she has great money coming her way. </p>

<p>The Ivies are great schools, but so are the other top 20 schools. Heck, I would say that schools in the top 100 would be considered terrific.</p>

<p>This OP sounds like the PARENT prefers the Ivy.</p>

<p>The KID is going to college…not the parent. Let her choose.</p>

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<p>Marsian, you are right on both counts! Thanks!</p>

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<p>any way to visit the two again ? D had this same issue- the second visit did it</p>

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<p>Another vote for letting go of HYP and going for the other school. Not to underestimate how hard it is to turn down a top Ivy, but it may not be the best fit for her. I also think that unless money is of no concern (and to me that would mean you are not at all dependent on a job to keep your current living standard), having a full tuition scholarship for four years is a huge plus. The top 20 schools all have excellent reputations where it counts - with grad schools and employers. Also, she may have the opportunity to really shine and be one of the top students.</p>

<p>She may wake up this morning having changed her mind yet again. As a parent, you have to support the choice as it is hers to make.</p>

<p>By the way, what is the athletic situation like at each school? Does she have a preference for one coach or program over the other or will one provide more opportunities in her sport (if she is a very elite level?).</p>

<p>All in all, there are no bad choices here. Good luck!</p>