Fit in Physics or 4th year of Social Studies

My D20 is doing the full IB diploma and is considering Molecular Biology or Biomedical Engineering. Her initial plan for Jr/Sr year:

Jr:
IB English HL (year 1 of 2)
IB Economics SL
IB Chemistry HL (year 1 of 2)
IB Biology HL (year 1 of 2)
IB French 3
TOK
AP Stats (took AP Calc BC as a sophomore)
AP Art History

Sr:
IB English HL (year 2 of 2)
IB Chemistry HL (year 2 of 2)
IB Biology HL (year 2 of 2)
IB French SL
TOK
IB Math HL
AP Physics 1 (school does not offer any of the calculus based classes)

In refining her college list it seems a handful of schools recommend 4 years of social studies. I’m wondering if the 2 semesters of TOK would count as a social studies course? Her school lists them as general electives in the course catalog. Her school highly discourages students from taking an 8th class particularly first semester and most just take 6, leaving room for CAS requirements, extended essay and applications. She’s thinking of dropping Physics to fit in Psychology, but that seems like it would significantly weaken her preparation if she decides to go engineering as well as leaving her without a full year of physics. IB students take a semester of physics their sophomore year (along with a semester of chemistry). She MIGHT be able to drop Chemistry to SL, she signed up for exams for this year a few weeks ago and I’m not sure if she could add the exam. I’m just wondering which would make the most sense within the IB diploma framework?

No

This is difficult to answer without knowing 2 things - her classes as a fresh/soph, and examples of the colleges she is targeting.

In terms of academic rigor, IB diploma pretty much trumps everything else and colleges will generally allow leeway on their HS course “recommendations” when school/district/state requirements come into play.

In general, for top colleges anyway, social studies is one of the core subjects where relatively few colleges have a 4 year requirement. For her career objectives, she would be better served having a HS background in physics. If she’s already a junior, however, it may be a challenge having 3 sciences senior year where 2 are HL.

Thanks for the feedback @skieurope Earlier classes:

Freshman:
Health/PE
Honors French 1
Honors Biology
Honors English
Honors World History
Honors PreCalc with Trig
Student Council
Digital Video Editing

Sophomore
AP Calc BC
AP Computer Science A
Honors Chemistry/Physics
Honors French 2
Honors English
Honors US History
PE/AP Art History (first semester only, taking second semester junior year)

She’s only a junior so her target list is still in flux. Johns Hopkins is the current front runner. Her list is currently overflowing with your typical top 20 schools. I think Dartmouth is the one she was saying had a 4 year social studies requirement. It goes without saying that we’ll have a good mix of match and safety schools. I think the 3 sciences senior year is crazy - especially on top of CAS and extended essay. Apparently 5-10 IB students at her school do all 3 senior year with 2-3 doing the Physics HL which is considered even tougher than her plan.

What is this? Is it really a full year of HS chem and a full year of HS physics compressed into one or is it actually a physical science class that glosses over each?

So here’s the thing about Dartmouth (and other schools who are crazy enough to list this as a recommendation) - they “recommend” 4 years of English/science/social studies/math/foreign language. At many US high schools, and this was the case at mine, it is physically impossible to complete these recommendations (without summer school anyway, and that just opens up another can of worms) and complete the school requirements for (as examples) arts, PE, health, computer literacy, religious studies, etc. So, I would not get bogged down worrying about colleges that ask for 4 years of everything; they will evaluate in context… I also quote Dartmouth’s FAQ:

https://admissions.dartmouth.edu/glossary-question/does-dartmouth-require-specific-high-school-courses

So, she should choose what’s right for her. Personally, I wish she asked last year, as I would have adjusted the jr year schedule, but what’s done is done. Good luck

It may depend on how much physics she learned in “Honors Chemistry/Physics”.

Biology and biomedical engineering majors need to take physics in college. Not having had high school physics will make physics in college more difficult. This may be especially important in a highly competitive environment (these majors are popular with pre-meds for whom A is the only acceptable grade).

IB Math HL generally does not give any more advanced placement in college math than AP calculus BC. Is it a necessary check box for the IB diploma?

Yes; you need a math class for the IB diploma, and she’s already complete Calc BC

Honors Chemistry/Physics is not physical science course (her school also offers that for non-IB students). It’s a lab based one semester each of chemistry and physics to specifically prepare potential IB students for IB chemistry or physics.

Yes @ucbalumnus she unfortunately must take IB Math HL for the full diploma even though there is heavy overlap with both Calc BC and Stats and there will be no additional credit given by anyone.

I think the Physics will prepare her better, but it will definitely be a heavier load than Psych.

Thanks for the thoughts - she has a few more weeks before she has to submit her proposed schedule and even then it may not matter as she may find conflicts between classes anyway.

How would you have adapted junior year @skieurope ? It won’t help her, but I have a S21 as well - although he may decided to not pursue the full diploma.

Well, S21 might have different career aspirations which would result in different recommendations. Had I been D20, I would have done IB physics in place of either bio or chem. I may also would have only done 3 HLs - the workload is enough as it is. But at the end of the day, I’m not D20, and I don’t know her abilities.

Thanks - it’s true my son will have different aspirations - thinking engineering, but not nearly as sure. He’s leaning to Physics as he’s enjoying it more than biology last year, although he hasn’t had the chemistry semester yet. I suppose we should be better at picking systematically as opposed to just whatever 2 you liked the best freshman/sophomore year which is how my daughter chose. Younger kid usually benefits from mistakes with the older one.

I was happy her school/IB restricts to 4 HL - left to her own devices she would have attempted 5 HLs only leaving French SL.

TOK and psych aren’t really the social science cores. Econ can be iffy. She’s got honors WH snd USH, nothing more rigorous available? Any flexibility to move things around? Maybe French online and replaced with something else? I don’t see how molecular or biomed can skip bio or chem. Or physics.

This 2 year course plan is an issue, clogging her schedule. What’s the GC say? The focus is ngineering admit chances, before even being concerned about college courses.

How necessary is the full IB diploma? Could she take selected IB courses without needing to check all of the boxes for the full IB diploma? Seems like going for the full IB diploma just fills schedule space with a course that is mostly useless duplication of what she has already learned.

The 2 years is the nature of IB. And it’s the most rigorous available at her school - it’s just not very flexible. She has to have IB French for the diploma and there’s no possibility of taking it online. She took highest available courses freshman and sophomore in social studies (no APs are offered before those honors courses are taken at her school). She has to have an IB social studies course and her school offers: 20th Century History, Economics, and Psychology at the SL level - she cannot take an HL for social studies as she’s already maxed out. Her counselor is fine with her taking AP Physics with her IB HL sciences although acknowledges it’s a heavy load. He will not agree to add another social studies course for an 8th class senior year so she could take APUSH or APGovt and frankly I think it would be insane with her other courses.

Unfortunately you cannot take IB courses at her school without being a full diploma candidate @ucbalumnus

How about removing AP statistics junior year and replacing it with regular, AP, or IB physics? While biology majors likely need to take statistics in college, not all colleges or their biology majors accept AP statistics for that (they may require calculus based statistics). Also, if IB math HL includes some statistics, removing AP statistics would eliminate some wasted duplication (although it would still have substantial duplication with the previously taken AP calculus BC).

Remember the OP’s DD is a junior, so we’re 2-2.5 months into the school year.

We’re definitely passed the point of changing her junior year schedule. I can’t see how dropping stats would even make sense as that would leave her with only 3 years of math which has to be worse than only 3 years of social studies at most schools. I think the lack of physics will be more of a problem than the 4th year of social studies and frankly the schools that even suggest 4 years of social studies are hyper selective anyway. I’m leaning to advising her to just stick with the original plan.

Something to keep in mind for the younger son though, and this really entails conversations with the GC to understand the HS’s success with college matriculation, is that IB,and particular IBDP, is not right for everyone. In particular, STEM students, especially those on an advanced math track, will find IB rather constraining. On the other hand, IBDP students invariably get the “most demanding” coursework checkbox automatically, whereas those students not doing IBDP may not. But again, none of us know that HS’s policies. Good luck.