<p>I’d like to add that I have no major tie to Yale (other than the fact that a relative or two went there UG). I think it is debatable as a top ten business school (at best); however, I do think the SOM is a decent option for some and is on the rise.</p>
<p>storch, i think it’s more wise to say that Yale SOM was on the rise, for it has already reached its peak now so its rise has already plateaued, and the top 10 is already very crowded with all of them doing their best to improve more. Frankly, Yale doesn’t have a legit reason to beat Fuqua, let alone Tuck and Haas. Unless all the money owned by the parent host - Yale University - is invested to SOM there’s no substantial reason for Yale SOM to get into the top 10 in the near future.</p>
<p>wildflower, if you’re not debating, then what are you doing on this thread? ■■■■■■■■? because other than your ad hominem attacks, you’re not contributing to the discussion.</p>
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</p>
<p>Educating you. Call it charity, if you will. Letting you know ‘why’ and ‘how’ your opinion is both irrelevant and inconsequential. </p>
<p>But for debate’s sake…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>How in the world can you make that assertion, RML? Where is the proof? </p>
<p>And since when do you know or care anything about wisdom?</p>
<p>
Thank you. But seriously, really? Aren’t you joking?
Since when have you become a worthy, respectable lecturer?
So, no thanks. </p>
<p>
Well, I have prepared for that. don’t worry; I can justify that. But I will post that here only AFTER you assert it that
- Haas isn’t an elite business school
- Haas isn’t improving
- Yale SOM is better than Haas
- Yale SOM will become a top 3 business school in the future</p>
<p>
And since when do you? lol</p>
<p>Taking a step back from the Haas vs. Yale debate, let’s face it, these two schools are not “elite” MBA programs:</p>
<p>1) At the top of the b-school summit, you’ve got the big three (H / W / S).
2) Then you’ve got the rest of the M7 = MIT, Columbia, Chicago, Kellogg – with Tuck making a very strong case to make it an “M8”.</p>
<p>Those are your “elite” b-schools (plus INSEAD and LBS if you include international MBA programs). It’s hard to find serious / major flaws in those 10 programs above (M8 + 2 international –> or put another way, you don’t have to “justify” why you chose one of these programs).</p>
<p>After that, if you want to round out a US-only Top 10 – i.e. two remaining spots – it’s really not that clear cut – frankly its a dog fight with NYU, Yale, Michigan, Duke, UVA, Cal and Cornell all making a case for one those last two spots.</p>
<p>Now if you want to take any of those two (including Haas and make a case on its behalf) I’m not really gonna say that its ridiculous. But by the same token, it’s just as easy to make as strong a case (perhaps even stronger) for any of those other programs – in other words – this is precisely the problem with those two last spots. It’s not clear cut.</p>
<p>Basically, you are making up a “Top 10” MBA program in name only – for the sake of it. There is such a considerable difference in prestige and quality between the above M8 vs. everyone else. So if you want to say, Haas or Yale is a “Top 10” program to make you feel better about going there, I guess you could, but you really aren’t fooling anyone. It’s not like people are going to drop their jaws when you tell them you are a Haas graduate… (Yale is slightly another story which I will get into).</p>
<p>So, what’s the point? Basically, if I had a choice between Haas vs. Yale SOM today, I’d choose Yale. Why? Well frankly, from a “rankings” perspective, its really a wash – I mean CC nerds like us might know what the specific USNWR or B-week or Forbes ranking might be for Haas or SOM at any given year, but 99.99% of the public will just look at you like you as if you were wearing a Star Trek uniform if you went around quoting this –> in other words, no. 9 or no. 11 – really who cares, the point is, they aren’t beating out the M8. Put another way, MIT, Columbia, Chicago, Kellogg grads don’t go around quoting their b-school rankings to justify why they went there (people assume they are pretty damn good – perhaps not quite H / W / S material – but pretty 'effin good nonetheless).</p>
<p>Which brings us to Haas / Yale (et. al.) Not only are you not H / W / S material, you really weren’t M7/M8 material either. Now perhaps you really are very good and just had some bad luck, but nonetheless, you aren’t “elite”. So given that, I’d rather be a Yale graduate. At least I’ve got Yale on my resume (and ability to leverage the alumni network) and as I’ve stated on numerous occasions, SOM has been trending higher (i.e. its not a complete embarrassment to say you went there as it might have been say 20 years ago).</p>
<p>What does Haas have going for it? Cali? Silicon Valley? Perhaps, but if you were really good you would have gone to Stanford right? No thanks, I’d rather be a Yale grad.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Well, if your idea of getting an MBA is so that it can feed you to Wall Street, then Tuck may be is better than Haas. Heck, it may be is better than Stanford or Sloan in that regard. But that’s not just why people take MBA. If think that’s everything why one should study MBA, then you’re hugely mistaken, although I would not try to argue on the idea that being in WS is something very hard to resist. After all, the reward of being stationed in WS is higher. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>But not everyone who wish to work in the tech/IT world would get into Stanford as SBS slots are quite limited at the moment. (But even that, 14 Haas second year students have got admissions from SBS but opted for Haas.) It’s the same reason and case why not everyone would get into Harvard and ended up at Sloan. HBS is huge, but it can’t accept everyone no matter how strong the candidates are. Do you really think everyone who has been rejected at the Big 3 is academically subpar? Can we really say that Sloan students are substantially subpar to that of HBS’? I don’t think so. </p>
<p>
I understand that and I fully respect that. After all, it is your personal opinion. However, there are lots and lots of people - mostly those who are in the tech/IT industry - who would not find your decision logical and acceptable. That’s what I have trying to tell you which you repeatedly failed to understand. Haas and Yale don’t really share applicant pools. Maybe Tuck and Yale do, but not Haas and Yale or Haas and Tuck. Haas’ curriculum isn’t finance heavy or oriented either just like Tuck is. And, a substantial number (or about 35% of the student body) of Haas have not come from consulting or finance industry, something that maybe is totally different from the Tuck and Yale student bodies. In addition to that, people who would love to stay in California or those who originally are would would love around would find Haas way more attractive than either Tuck or Yale.</p>
<p>If you’re turning this into a global scale, neither Haas or Tuck would make it to the top 10. But we’re talking about US b-schools that would comprise the top 10 in the US. So, i’d stick with my ranking.</p>
<p>HBS
SBS, Wharton
- big 3 -
kellog
sloan, chicago, columbia - T7 -
Haas, Tuck
Fuqua, Ross - rounding up the top 10 (so there are 11 schools in the top 10)</p>
<p>then we have:
johnson, Yale, darden, anderson and stern which are all elite b-schools with world-wide reputation.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It find it highly improbable to believe that Cornell could make a serious case for those two last spots. I think most people would agree that both Haas and (now) Yale, and likely also Duke, Michigan, and Virginia, are all better than Cornell.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>OK even removing Cornell, you’ve still got 6 legit contenders (NYU, Mich, Duke, Yale, Cal and UVA) for 2 spots – and even then the main point is that those two last spots are still at a considerably lower tier than the tier above it.</p>
<p>Applications Received:
Haas - 4,064
Tuck - NA
Yale - NA</p>
<p>Number of Enrolled Students:
Haas - 240
Tuck - 240
Yale - 223</p>
<p>Average GMAT:
Haas - 718
Tuck - 712
Yale - 715</p>
<p>Average GPA:
Haas - 3.59
Tuck - 3.44
Yale - 3.50</p>
<p>International Students:
Haas - 30%
Tuck - 31%
Yale - 28%</p>
<p>Countries Represented:
Haas - 31
Tuck - 27
Yale - NA</p>
<p>Undergraduate Majors:</p>
<p>Haas
Engineering - 27%
Business - 24%
Economics - 21%
Social Sciences - 9%
Natural Sciences - 6%
Humanities - 5%
Computer Sciences - 3%
Other - 5%</p>
<p>Tuck
Humanities: 29%
Business and finance: 27%
Engineering/computer science: 18%
Economics: 16%
Math/science: 8%
Other: 2%</p>
<p>Yale
Economics - 21%<br>
Engineering - 18%<br>
Humanities - 11%<br>
Information Systems & Computer Science - 5%
Mathematics - 2%
Other (Individual Study) - 0%
Physical Sciences - 7%
Social Science - 18% </p>
<p>Previous Industry </p>
<p>Haas
Consulting - 32%
Financial Services - 14%
Banking - 13%
High Technology/Electronics - 5%
Not-for-Profit/Government - 5%
Consumer Products - 4%
Healthcare/Pharma/Biotech 4%
Military - 3%
Real Estate - 3%
Computer-Related Services - 2%
Energy - 2%
Entertainment - 2%
Telecommunications - 2%
Transportation - 2%
Other - 7%</p>
<p>Tuck</p>
<h1>Investment banking or private equity: 12%</h1>
<h1>Other financial services, real estate: 10%</h1>
<h1>Technology: 12%</h1>
<h1>Government, military, nonprofit: 12%</h1>
<h1>Marketing, retail, consumer goods: 10%</h1>
<h1>Manufacturing: 6%</h1>
<h1>Healthcare, pharmaceuticals, biotech: 3%</h1>
<h1>Other: 15%</h1>
<p>Yale</p>
<p>No profiles available</p>
<p>Annual Mean Base Salary / Median Base Salary
Haas - $108,967 / 110,000
Tuck - $110,000 / 110,000
Yale -
Mean Signing Bonus / Median Singing Bonus
Haas $22,737 / NA
Tuck 26,000 / 20,000
Yale
Other Compensation
Haas $29,662
Tuck $26,400
Yale </p>
<p>For Yale, click this: [Yale</a> School of Management - Salary Information](<a href=“http://mba.yale.edu/careers/employment/salary.shtml]Yale”>http://mba.yale.edu/careers/employment/salary.shtml)
Its lower than Haas and Tucks salary data.</p>
<p>I would predict by 2012, the Haas will climb up significantly on the league table.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>What do you predict Haas’ ranking will be in 2012 (and that is at least an average of at least 4 out of the 6 major rankings: USNWR, Bweek, FT, Forbes, Economist, WSJ)</p>
<p>wow, this discussion has reached some real low points-</p>
<p>Yale SOM vs. Haas is interesting, partially b/c Yale and UCB are among the world’s best universities- my sense is SOM trades in the presige of its parent quite a bit more. I’d imagine if the topic ever came up of where I’d gone to school, I’d say “Yale” and kind of skip the MBA part. </p>
<p>well, Yale is well known for non-profit- pension funds, endowments, etc. like Jane Mendillo at HMC, Andrew Golden at PRINCO and Dean Takahashi (Swensen’s right hand man)… not to mention Indra Nooyi…</p>
<p>and the faculty- Shiller, Ibbotson, Fabozzi (adjunct), Gorton (top finance prof at Wharton), Barberis, Sonnenfeld… wow</p>
<p>but Yale is of course in New Haven- nowhere near Boston, nor really NYC and Stamford. They are not getting a new building any time soon (their present location is pretty shabby)…</p>
<p>yet, grouping people into tiers is incredibly misguided and snobbish and elitist-</p>
<p>so I guess by your logic the_prestige,
Bill Gross (UCLA '71)
Larry Fink (UCLA '76)
Warren Buffet (Columbia '53)
Henry Kravis (Columbia '69)
Lee Ainslie (UNC '81)
Louis Bacon (Columbia '81)</p>
<p>were not H/W/S material, heck Ainslie, Gross and Fink weren’t even M7/M8 material… what losers, huh?</p>
<p>who said anything about being a “loser”? when did i ever write that? please don’t put words into my mouth.</p>
<p>besides you compiling a list of high achieving outliers proves what exactly? that great minds will end up achieving regardless of the degree they hold? tell us something we all don’t know.</p>
<p>Texas schools: Texas A&M (Mays) is ranked #24, SMU (Cox) is #33 and Rice (Jones) #47 ??? Maybe I’m wrong, but I thought SMU and Rice were both better than Texas A&M</p>
<p>The University of Houston (Bauer) isn’t even ranked in the top 75 ???</p>
<p>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/8767176-post42.html[/url][I]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/8767176-post42.html*</a> (08-30-2009)*</p>
<p>By the way, for those keeping score at home, Yale SOM was ranked no. 10 for the second consecutive year by USNWR MBA Rankings:</p>
<p>[Best</a> Business School Rankings | MBA Program Rankings | US News](<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-business-schools/mba-rankings]Best”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-business-schools/mba-rankings)</p>
<p>Necro-thread??? wow, interesting…</p>
<p>The top 9 (Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, Kellogg, Chicago, Sloan, Haas, Columbia and Tuck) would remain constant. They would only exchange places as they have been doing so in the past. But they are cemented solidly in a certain container that no one can’t get out from it or anyone can get into it. The top 10 is a hotly contested seat and several schools are vying for it. Noticed how there are 2 in the top 10 and another 2 or 3 interchanging with those that luckily landed in the top 10 this year?</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>Your backpedaling is wonderful. So now you are going to claim that you never stated on numerous posts years ago that Yale would never be ranked a Top 10 MBA program? Now your claim is that Yale has just simply been “lucky” to land a Top 10 spot for the last two years in a row?</p>
<p>And even if it is “luck” (which is a very amusing notion that Yale is the “lucky” one) who cares? They still ranked in the Top 10 – twice.</p>
<p>Can you at least acknowledge you were wrong about that so we can all move on?</p>
<p>I mean, this is simple fact now for anyone with a “search” button. You claimed that Yale would never be ranked a Top 10 program and now they are. Can’t you at least man up and say “I got it wrong”?</p>