Forcing a Fit?

Parent Cafe
41

<p>I add the following.</p>

<p>We are lucky to live in a society in which someone could pursue happiness and enjoyment for its own sake.</p>

<p>Love, even familial love, emodies a relatively new concept. And happines too. Hundreds of years of slow, grueling turmoil to achieve what we today call comfort. So many often wonder why the poor, the immigrant children work SO hard, why they would play piano every night with aching fingers, or read a thousand pages of dizzying problems for the SAT.</p>

<p>But we so soon forget that in our lives of relatively minor pain, and delightful distraction, a world exists where theatre tech will not cure the typhoid of a sick and dying child, nor provide power to heat the hovel and save fingers and toes from winter's chill.</p>

<p>Ambition, even ethic, are deserving, and I'm surprised no one has defended them thus far in this discussion. I will not, for there are some who will always understand and others that will not.</p>

<p>Yet, when I see the girl with the 1600 SAT who wants to study Archaeology, Anthropology, or English at some LAC, or the boy who would take away from others the opportunity for Boy's State, but has always planned to attend UC Davis which would accept him anyway, when I see irreverence or disrespect, for anguish, when I see incredulousness at the pain put forth for something greater, perhaps ethereal, but noble beyond measure, I must to note it. If only so that you perhaps will as well.</p>

<p>But what do I know?</p>

<p>Let us do what makes us happiest above all, take not seriously the aim of painful ambition. </p>

<p>For in the end, it's really about what 'fits' for you, isn't it?</p>

42

<br>


<br>

<p>What's wrong with this? Would you prefer that students headed for these majors achieve 1050 on the SAT? And are the students who show "ambition, even ethic" headed for lives of curing disease and eradicating poverty or making a killing on Wall Street? Have you read the threads from kids wondering a/ whether they'll get into Wharton and b/what careers command the highest salaries ? Noble ambition? </p>

<br>


<br>

<p>Applicants do not take away college slots from others.</p>

<br>


<br>

43

<p>kritarch -- I was agreeing with your post until I read the examples marite adressed above. To suggest that majors in the humanities are of less value than the hard sciences is absurd. I was also surprised to see English as one of the listed 'useless' majors, because it's one of the most versatile fields of study. English majors go on to law school, or get MBAs, or ...</p>

<p>I'm a girl with a straight-A record (no SAT scores yet) who plans to major in English in college, then work in publishing -- a perfectly respectable career. Would you say that the Editor-in-Chief of a major publishing house has wasted her life on trivial things? </p>

<p>The argument that history has never before allowed for the pursuit of happiness is irrelevant. If anything, it goes to show how far we've come.</p>

<p>That isn't to say I don't rant to my drama-geek friends about the importance of science on a regular basis. Any kind of academic elitism is narrow-minded.</p>

<p>edit: I'd also like to add that colleges are schools, not career training centers. People have the right to pursue education for whatever reason they choose, and may very well work outside their major in the future.</p>

44

<p>Whitneylm, I certainly do appreciae your sentiments. However, has is occurred to you that maybe some of these kids thrive on competition and challange? Yes, kids seem to have gone overboard in their quest to get into the top schools. Frankly, this may partly be the fault of the schools and partly the fault of our educational culture to aspire to be the best. </p>

<p>Americans tend to be a driven bunch. You see that in companies where only a few can make it to the "top." We see that in educational attainment. Even in academia, not everyone gets tenure. I know an editor for a prestigious journal that rejects 80% of all submissions!</p>

<p>While I applaud your sensitivity and desire not to let the college process stress you out of existance, I also applaud those driven people who are so self motivated as to reach for the golden ring. In fact, reaching for that "golden ring" might well stretch the abilities of kids.</p>

<p>In summary, an old line comes to mind about my attitude about all this: different strokes for different folks.</p>

45

<p>kritarch - What??? I have to disagree with you on this one also. So someone with a 1600 SAT must cure the world and heal diseases? They are not allowed to pursue what they want to? This makes them selfish? Also, you are suggesting that only the brightest people in the world are the only ones capable of this? I know many people who are average; yes, average that are working in the science field on cures and that are even doctors/dentists/lawyers, etc. </p>

<p>Forcing students to study and work in a field that they are not interested is wrong in my opinion. My son is very bright and will be attending a good school. The school is a great fit for my son, but other people wanted him to apply to more "prestigious" colleges. They think he is crazy because "if he is so smart he should be studying engineering, medicine, etc." He will be majoring in Art History & French with a minor in Studio Art. </p>

<p>I am not ashamed that he has made this choice. He has a lot to add to this world whether or not he chooses the major that other's think he should. I'm sure he was accepted to this school because he adds something to the current student body that is under-represented. Do I think he took a spot away from a more deserving person (i.e. - one that is going to cure someone)? In the society that I live in we all need each other & we should respect one another. Not put these kids down for something that they do not wish to do. By the way, we have MANY physicians in our immediate family and guess what? Med. schools are looking for well-rounded students not just choosing kids with a science major anymore. </p>

<p>Who decides what "fields" are the most important. We as a society can learn much from History/Art History. Languages are also important in our ever-changing world. I don't think that any field is more important that the other. Can you tell I hate "academic" elitism?</p>

46

<p>"I know many people who are average; yes, average that are working in the science field on cures and that are even doctors/dentists/lawyers, etc. "</p>

<p>I know of one such person, my husband. He was an average student at City U of NY, got a Masters' in Chemistry from there. His grades were B average. He is now a star researcher at a major Pharmaceutical company. His strength is his drive and his creativity. That cannot be made anywhere, even in a university. It took him longer to get to where he is because he did not have a Phd but he works on life-saving drugs in a crucial step in the drug making process.</p>

47

<p>achat - You are so right. Strength & creativity are extremely important. It again shows the flaw that only people with 1600 SAT are worthy of such an important career. There are many people with super high IQ's that don't have these things (along with the very same in lower IQ people). That is one of the reasons that are physician family members are saying. Med schools need well rounded people. I don't know about you but I want to go to a doctor that can talk to me and that is friendly. If you are not working closely with the public then it may not be so important. </p>

<p>At any rate, we all need to work together & respect each other and no one in our society (career-wise, money-wise, IQ-wise, etc.) is less important/more important than anyone else. After all, the pilot could not fly a plane if someone didn't build it or design it.</p>

48

<p>Actually, I was going to write, my husband grade average was less than a B. Probably B-..... he had a lot of Cs.</p>

<p>His strength is his perseverence and creativity - ability to think outside the box. I have been married for 25 years and he never stops amazing me!</p>

49

<p>A test of whether or not a society is moving in the direction of a high quality of life and delivering the fruits of civilization is this statement of John Adams from 1780:</p>

<p>"I must study politics and war, that my children have the liberty to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, commerce, and agriculture, in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, and architecture."</p>

<p>The arts represent the flowering of a culture - those who love them seek high and noble truths about human existence. It is an imperative that a sound society "takes care of business" to the point that the arts can flourish. Otherwise, my friends, we are just a bunch of busy little techno-droids preoccupied with comfort and survival.</p>

50

<p>Well-said! Mine is a music composition major/Italian minor - by the time the college gets done with her, she should be totally unemployable. ;)</p>

<p>That's just fine with me. Been down that road myself, and it has led to a terrific life. I'm thankful there are some folks who choose to become human plumbers, though I think they would be healthier had they been art history majors.</p>

51

<p>While on some affective level i agree with what WHITNEYLM initially wrote about following your own passions and not trying to take classes and participate in extra-curriculars because it would look well to the ad-coms, I also recognize that before you can follow those passions, you need to get down to the basics....you need to fulfill certain "requirements" before you can have the luxury of following those dreams. When you are young, <em>my soapbox</em> now, it is essential that you "pay your dues" so to speak. How many bright, articulate, and talented kids are sent home every year from college because they couldn't sit through introductory courses and the like and perform the tedious and painstaking work necessary to get by those Course Catalog 101 classes. Everybody wants to take the more interesting upper level classes and pursue ONLY their major. But that is not what a good well-rounded college education is all about. How many students who are strictly BIO majors were forced into a semester of reading CHAUCER...and lo and behold! some actually liked it! My point is.....there are character traits, if you will, called "perseverance" and "self-discipline" that separate even the most talented of individuals. I think the universities are trying to snuff them out of all the chaff that applies. They are looking for the noble one who will against all odds and adversity will continue to pursue coursework even if it is tedious and boring because it lays the foundation for a truly educated individual who has been exposed to a variety of subject matter. While you considered AP classes to be not as interesting as those at the community college and certain clubs to be a waste of time, colleges are looking for those that can excel in spite of the drudgery of those classes. It's paying your dues.....and running with the flock until you can be separated at some later time with some truly outstanding deeds and ventures. In retrospect, that kind of attitude is what the ad-coms saw in my S's who both went to Ivy League Schools...Harvard and Penn.</p>

<p>Just my opinion!!!</p>

52

<p>There are many occupations where running with the flock, keeping your nose to the grindstone and blooming later in life works quite well. If following your dream is indeed a luxury, then sgiovinc1's advice is sound. </p>

<p>When backed by legitimate talent and nourished by gifted teaching, a dream becomes more than a luxury. Those who are blessed (or cursed) with such dreams frequently demonstrate perseverance and self-discipline in the fullest possible measure over the course of entire lifetimes. I would not stand in their way for Harvard, Penn or anywhere else.</p>

53

<p>May I suggest a compromise: to follow one's dreams, but to recognize that in order to become a cultured, multifaceted individual it is necessary to dabble in more than one discipline. It hardly has to be a form of torture, although of course I'm young enough to still be idealistic.</p>

54

<p>I agree with everything that has been said, and should clarify. There are people who dream and people who work hard and people who I greatly admire. </p>

<p>However, I was speaking of the people who don't really have any dream or aspiration and just feel like they HAVE to be at HYPSM or something similar to be anyone. If that makes any sense...</p>

55

<p>I know what you mean Whitney. There are people who try to get into those colleges but live life at the same time. Then there are those who contemplate suicide if they get an A-and commit it once they don't get in.</p>

56

<p>or the boy who would take away from others the opportunity for Boy's State,>> </p>

<p>But adds a spot at UC Davis?</p>

<p>Then there are those who contemplate suicide if they get an A-and commit it once they don't get in.</p>

<p>I wonder wat the stats are on sumthing like this lol.</p>

<p>There are people who dream and people who work hard and people who I greatly admire. </p>

<p>Dammmit i guess im a dreamer</p>

57

<p>Yulsie - What a fabulous quote!!!!!!</p>

58

<p>mominsearch - I love that statement by John Adams because it illustrates a progression from survival orientation to the opportunity for self-actualization in the creative arts. It is one sort of barometer that provides an answer to a nation's question "how are we doing by our citizens?"</p>

<p>It also speaks to our family. My dad is Col. USAF Ret, I majored in philosophy, and S is the performing artiste.</p>

59

<p>Until this thread came along, I was beginning to think that practically everyone on CC was trying to force a fit. I myself am in a highly competitive school and have extremely intelligent friends who criticize me and call me a slacker because I only take advanced courses in subjects I truly love. Everyone expects me to take all the available AP classes and all honors because I'm capable, but I really love art and writing and take challenging courses in these subjects. Often I'm told that I should aim for the top 5% and not just for the top 10%; however, I cannot be in the top 5% without taking all advanced classes and stressing myself out.</p>

<p>I once asked a friend of mine what she really wanted to be after college, and she said a pediatric oncologist. I asked why, and she didn't have an answer other than she always wanted to be one just because her father told her that's what he wanted her to be. She gets probably 5 hours of sleep a night and is so stressed out all the time. I often wonder what would happen if she was rejected from Princeton and Harvard, her top two choices...</p>

60

<p>wuwei, My son has faced the same things that you have. He loves art and has taken 5 CR of it, 6 CR of English, etc. This means that he too can't take every AP class offered (and forget honors math - he did get a 650M on the SAT which for him was extremely acceptable). Let me tell you that I suspect his admission decision was partly based on his artistic ability. Yes, he had leadership positions, EC's, 3.9? GPA, top 10% of his class, good SAT, community service hours, but I think what made him stand out was the art.</p>

<p>So, don't let everyone talk you into taking classes you don't want to or let you think you are slacking. My son's AP art class is extremely challenging and until I lived through this and sending in portfolios to different colleges I would NEVER have realized the time that that is involved. Artists are very intelligent people - they have to be because of the level of creativity. </p>

<p>He also got into the college of his choice with a great scholarship, and is looking very forward to majoring in Art History & French and minoring in Studio Art. Am I proud of him - you betcha. He is a happy and self-confident person & I don't care what he studies. </p>

<p>I feel sorry for the students whose only goal is to get into a "name brand" school. If you read these boards there are plenty of students who are now bitter & regret all the things they have done when they couldn't get into the school of their choice. It is so sad. There are so many good schools in the US and to just focus on a few narrows a lot of different avenues. It amazes me that so many people don't even know what the Ivy excels in (i.e., business, science, etc.)</p>

<p>Good luck to you & keep up the good work!</p>