Why even bother???

Applying to College
1

Every time I’ve come to this site in the last couple of years, I’ve gotten more and more depressed. I’m a parent of two fairly intelligent kids, and while they are my special snowflakes, they are not going to ace anything - they won’t get a perfect score on the SAT, they won’t be top of their high school class, and they’re not gonna cure cancer by the time they’re 17.

The way I read these boards, my kids are doomed. They are coming up at a time of vicious competition AMONG PARENTS, let alone kids, for every available slot at a top or even mid-tier school. My husband and I both work like crazy, we live in a rural area that necessitates driving very long distances to get our kids to after-school activities, and there’s barely time left for dinner and homework - let alone coming up with “substantive” other activities to pad a resume.

And I don’t WANT to pad resumes. I don’t want to be a crazed helicopter parent. I don’t want to worry about what admissions offices conclude when they look at my kid’s lack of a jam-packed daily schedule. I’d like to just enjoy my kids (when they let me) and deal with parenting and helping them grow up. I’d like to take them to Yellowstone on vacation, not take out a loan so they can go to some summer camp that looks good on an application.

I’d like for them to aim high in life, and I’d like for them to get into a better college than State U – but while we are upper middle class, we are struggling to pay the bills we have and certainly won’t have $50k, or even $30k, every year for a “good” college, even though we probably won’t qualify for any aid.

I read the thread about some colleges bemoaning the application pool of homogenous kids with perfect resumes, and realized from the comments that nothing will change even as the schools recognize they’ve got a problem.

My oldest entered high school this year and I’ve been trying to figure out the tack I’m going to take for the next four years, and I think I’ve come to the decision that I’m not going to be That Parent; that I’d rather she has a great time learning and growing in high school. She will likely end up at the state school as a result, and while I’m disappointed because I know she could aim higher, I think that it simply isn’t worth the soul-sucking stress for all of us.

In a sense, I’m opting out. I would consider our family a borderline family - we don’t have a legacy record at an Ivy (hah!), we don’t have tons of money, we don’t have preternaturally bright, driven children. But we are in the top 10 percent, income-wise, and we are white-collar professionals in the Northeast. Our kids will have a lot to offer the world, I’m sure of that. They’re just going to take a different path, and hopefully stay centered and grounded and happy while doing so.

I hope this makes sense. I’d be interested to hear from other parents.

2

Your kids will do fine. I have two kids who are both amazing (IMO). In HS they did well academically (but not the very top of the class) and they found activities that were meaningful and enjoyable for them but we did not “pad their resumes” as you say. Both kids were (and are) wonderfully imperfect. They went to very solid but non Ivy level colleges, had great experiences both academically and socially, and are doing great in life.

So if you ask me, let you kids be who they are, but be there as a supporter, cheerleader, and an adviser. When the time comes help them to find a college that is a good match. And down the road when the time comes help them to explore options and choose a career that makes sense for their talents/personality.

I always tried to impress on my kids (and I firmly believe) that life is not a one-on-one competition. There is plenty of room for dedicated and hard working people to succeed. So I tell them to always work towards their own success and to also celebrate the success of those that they care about. Life is much happier that way.

I have a feeling your kids will be just fine. Relax.

3

@Krenster - Just based on your post, I’ll bet your kids are great, well-adjusted people. You have to remember that the people who come to this site are more interested (it sometimes seems) in prestige more than anything else. But you are right about one thing: The competition is so much more competitive and it seems to be trickling down to less- and less- “prestigious” schools (including state flagships). My advice is to just relax and let your kids enjoy life. Not everyone can afford a Lexus (expensive college), but driving a Honda Fit (less-costly school, but a quality one) is fun as well.

4

Thanks so much for your responses. I think my impulse is to try hard and do what I can for them, and that has meant wanting to get them into the best schools, and I’ve realized we, as a family, simply aren’t cut out for that race. It’s good to know that the other path is there, and that others have gone down it and emerged unscathed :slight_smile:

5

Stay out of the Chances Forum. It will make your head spin. There are good schools all across this country. It is not limited to that old eight in a sports conference. The important thing is finding a school where your child will grow as a person and do well.

6

@Krenster My advice

  1. Use the Princeton Review Best 380 Colleges as your main resource. This guide does not rank schools based on selectivity rather it is a portfolio of schools that are known for excellent academics.

  2. Don’t make any assumptions on cost based on the published top line numbers, even for upper middle income families. You would be amazed what final numbers are relative to the top line number.

  3. Don’t assume northeastern state schools are always cheaper than private schools. It is not true in many cases.

  4. Avoid applying ED unless there is a specific reason.

  5. Think rural. Why? My experience is that they are more competitive money-wise because they receive fewer applications. Also, things are cheaper and kids spend less money.

  6. Be careful of demographics. Girls have it harder in terms of admissions. Boys in some schools much easier.

  7. Think religious. Why? Lower overall cost and lower net cost while getting excellent academics, campuses, sports, alumni, etc. The Northeast is filled with bouncy Catholic colleges offering great packages. Most of which are targeting the B+ student.

7

By the time I realized there was an admissions arms race, it was too late to join, even if I wanted to, which I don’t.

Let your kids be themselves, encourage them to work hard and be the best version of themselves that they can be. If they end up at the state flagship, that’s great! If you want more options for them, they will exist.

CC is NOT representative of the general population and there is plenty of opportunity and merit money when you move out of the top 30-50 ranked colleges and universities. There are many places to find a great education and thrive and your kids will land in one of them.

From a successful adult who could have aimed higher, didn’t have the money, and ended up at my state school.

8

There are very helpful and supportive parents here. I agree, don’t visit chances forums.

9

Why bother? Because there are 4,000 colleges and universities in the US. 3,900 of those will pretty much admit your child if she takes a regular high school curriculum, graduates, and takes a few practice tests before sitting for the SAT or ACT. For the other 100–and for higher merit aid–she has to work harder.

If your child likes small classes at LACs, there are amazing colleges in the Midwest and South with great academics, higher percentages of admits, and often greater chances at merit aid. Earlham, Wooster, Denison, OWU, St Olaf, Beloit, Lawrence, Rhodes, Rollins, Centre, Sewanee, Furman, Agnes Scott, etc have top-notch faculty, excellent facilities, incredible programs and beautiful campuses. And “fairly intelligent” kids can get in to these schools, often with merit aid. No “resume padding” needed.

You shouldn’t opt out completely, though. Your children will have the best chance of achieving a great fit at college if you do some leg work, and help them to visit a variety of campuses–large and small, public and private. You could start by looking at the CTCL schools. Also, at the appropriate time be straight with them about how much you are able/willing to contribute towards their education.

10

CTCL=colleges that change lives

11

As you can see from the above, you are not alone. There are lots of reasonable, rational, helpful people on CC who are parents/students like you/yours. As with the others above, I wanted mine to enjoy high school for itself- not just as a way station to college. Some planning now - making sure that they get the 4 years of English/Math/Social Studies/Science/Language that a lot of colleges want and looking at costs (as @ScaredNJDad1 says, the pricing is sometimes counter intuitive) will leave you in perfectly good shape. And, don’t underestimate in-states: my cousin’s daughter is at her NE in-state university b/c that’s what she could get into- and she just got a Truman Scholarship (surprised her parents no end!).

12

OP I am glad that you are voicing a sane, matter-of-fact approach to your family’s college search(es). And I am glad that you are starting early. Figuring out a strategy that works for your kids is the key. You can get lots – TONS – of useful information. Things you might never have considered, support, and yes, even a sense of perspective (okay, maybe only at times). Avoid forums or threads you are not interested in or which you just don’t want to get into. But I think you will be surprised at how much the experienced parents /posters can help. And I don’t mean for Ivy schools necessarily, either. Homeschoolers, homeless kids and aspiring actors can all get help here. Often it’s a dose of reality :slight_smile: You will find posters who are passionate about helping students find the right fit for their own situation, financially and academically.

13

I have two kids. One is a freshman at a top LAC, and one is a freshman in HS. They will be taking very different paths. Older D was a kid who was very competitive, had excellent time management skills, and excelled at standardized testing, EC’s, GPA etc. Younger D is just as smart but struggles much more with many issues including ADHD, anxiety, depression, etc. She is basically incapable at this point of participating in any EC’s because of her anxiety issues. Keeping her on track in school is enough of a challenge. I’ve had to totally re-calibrate my thinking and expectations. But one thing I’ve learned from CC is that a B student with no EC’s who struggles with standardized testing still has many options open to her, including not only our state universities but many private school options like the CTCL’s mentioned above. There’s lots of very helpful info on this site. You just have to look past the endless “Chance me for the Ivy League” threads.

14

Nothing wrong with that state school!

To save your sanity, hang out in the Financial Aid Forum and Parents Forum until you have a question that can only be answered by a foray into one of the other forums. By then you will have a notion of which posters are likely to give you reliable information, and which aren’t.

Why do I list Financial Aid before Parents? Because college costs so #@*&$% much. You want to learn as much as you can about how the money side of things works.

Welcome to the adventure!

15

btw, this is the insidious part! the first thing is to define ‘best’. IMO, it is schools that are academically strong (so that the work is challenging but achievable), with an energized leadership (b/c that invigorates the whole campus), and where that particular kid thrives. Mine are all happy at their current colleges- but would not be happy at each others. The ‘best’ for one is definitely not the same as the ‘best’ for another.

One of the gifts of going to university in the US is that there is such a range of choices. In most countries the idea of any kind of ‘fit’ between student and university beyond grades is a completely unknown concept.

16

Here’s a big secret: Are there kids who get perfect scores, achieve at the top of their high school class, and work on cancer research by the time they’re 17? Of course. Every single top-tier school has its fair share of these students. But do all the kids at the Ivy Leagues or any other competitive university have such amazing stats? Of course not! There are only a few kids in the world who have worked on cancer research, and even if 10 of them manage to get into Harvard, it still means that 1,650 Harvard kids are not professional cancer researchers.

The fact is that most students at top-name universities are NOT 2400 SAT valedictorian cancer researchers. In fact, very few are. Most Ivy League students are hard working kids like yours who have unique talents to bring to the world. We pay so much attention to the valedictorian 2400-scoring professional soccer superstar who gets rejected from Harvard that we fail to notice the many normal, hard-working, imperfect people who manage to get in.

There’s a blog by MIT admissions officer Chris Peterson that I would like to bring up; it’s titled “Applying Sideways.” In the piece, Peterson explains how colleges don’t want to see “padded resumes” or any specific extracurricular in a student’s application. Instead, they want to see kids who have passions, who do well in school, who want to bring positive change in the world. This is what they want to see. If you are giving your kids the opportunity to explore their interests and have fun while doing so instead of jam-packing your children’s schedules and signing them up for random summer camps, you are doing the right thing.

http://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/applying_sideways

I think one thing you should understand is that not getting into an Ivy League or prestigious university does not preclude your children from aiming high, nor does getting into a top-name school guarantee success. Success is determined by what one does in college, and not by where one goes. Don’t be disappointed in yourself if your daughter goes to a state school because you didn’t helicopter parent her enough. In fact, be proud! By giving her the ability to grow and explore on her own in high school, you are giving her more that you can imagine. Most “helicoptered” kids who are trained to follow a fixed schedule and complete a certain number of specialized extracurriculars and summer camps often “malfunction” once in college because they don’t know what to do. They don’t know what their interests are; they don’t know how to approach the new world on their own, free from the structured reality that they had lived their entire lives through. By giving your children the ability to pursue their own interests, you are setting your children up for success, far beyond the first day of college.

You say that your children have a lot to offer to the world. That should be all that matters. What college your children go to shouldn’t change their potential to make a difference in the world. It shouldn’t change their value to society. It shouldn’t change how successful they become. It shouldn’t change who they are.

Fifty years from now, no one will care about where your children went to school, what their SAT score was, or which summer camps they attended as a 10th grader. What people will care about, however, is what they end up doing in college and the rest of their life. By helping them express their interests and enjoy their final years before adulthood, you’re paving their path for the future. That in itself is the definition of “aiming high.”

As MIT admissions officer Chris Peterson says:

17

The only perk of graduating from Yale undergrad and Harvard Law is the connections you’d be making. When one day a fellow classmate you knew at Harvard became President, you’d probably be on the shortlist to become the next Secretary of State or Director of Homeland Security. If you look at the most successful people in the US (politics, law, business, medicine), most go to public universities. Marco Rubio went to University of Miami. Kasich went to Ohio State. The governor of California went to Santa Clara University.

What college you go to definitely does not predict how successful you will be, but going to one of the prestigious colleges would definitely help in success.

18

Thank you all so much - you’ve brought me some much-needed perspective. I will be sure to read and ask questions as they arise. Looks like there’s a great support network here for everyone.

19

Ok so I get where you coming from…but I think you perception of achievement is somewhat flawed.

First of all, and I know its not your intention, but self-inducing a mental limit of how smart your kids are isn’t exactly the best way to look at it. For example, where you say “they are not going to ace anything - they won’t get a perfect score on the SAT, they won’t be top of their high school class, and they’re not gonna cure cancer by the time they’re 17” you act as if these are impossible tasks to accomplish. Literally all you need to get this “impossible near-perfect SAT score” is study. Kids that get 2350s aren’t aliens from another planet. They don’t have four hands, three, eyes, or two brains. They’re kids just like any other that just sat down and actually STUDIED. That’s pretty much it. Kids at the top of their high school class are the same. These kids did their homework on time, studied well , took challenging classes, and when other kids were out partying, having fun, and watching movies, they were working hard.

And if you actually talk to kids with great ECs you’d learn that a lot of them do it because they are passionate about the things they pursue. I’m not saying that many students don’t do things to “pad” their resumes, but that there are also a lot of kids that take passion into their ECs and really enjoy them.

" I’d like to take them to Yellowstone on vacation, not take out a loan so they can go to some summer camp." They are literally TONS of amazing summer programs that you can APPLY to that are cheap.

What you need to understand is that these genius kids have a completely different mindset from the rest. Many such as yourself say you don’t want to be running around all day like lunatics and crazy people on a overloaded schedule. Others kids see that if they do “run around like crazy and work their ass off” for FOUR years, the’ll be set for the rest of their life.

And if you are struggling financially then I really can’t understand the notion that you don’t want your kids to work their ass off. MERIT SCHOLARSHIPS??? And if you didn’t know, top tier colleges get substantially more endowments than lower tier colleges…and this means they also hard substantially more financial aid than lower tier colleges. Many of them even have policies that they’ll cover you entire financial need…like Columbia.

Just because kids work hard does’t mean they are unhappy. You can relax anytime you want in life…you only go to high school once. What you put in is what you get out of it.

20

@Alpha101 I strongly disagree that every kid can ace everything if they just work hard enough. Sorry, doesn’t work that way. We are not all born with the same level of intelligence, talents, drives and abilities. If my D worked that hard for four years, she wouldn’t just be unhappy, she would probably be hospitalized with anxiety and depression and still wouldn’t have perfect grades or scores. That’s cool that your kids are hyper competitive and went to Columbia for free. Good for them.

Many of us have normal kids with strengths and weaknesses who haven’t quite found their passion yet. My D16 has been accepted to all of the schools she applied to with her B+ average and 30 ACT score and few ECs and I’m proud of her.