<p>Bethievt:</p>
<p>Interesting about your young acquaintance at H. S has not been pressured to join anything. </p>
<p>Cangel:
Some students prefer to attend either smaller schools (LACs) or much bigger schools with great sports teams, or more techie schools. I see nothing wrong with this.</p>
<p>marite</p>
<p>She wasn't pressured--she was invited and I'm sure felt flattered but conflicted. Didn't want to be part of an exclusive club, but didn't want to say no. Internal pressure. Probably no different from frats or sororities although those you choose to rush for I guess. In any case, she was uncomfortable. But I have no doubt she's getting a great education.</p>
<p>And again, if anyone wants to attend a school with whatever features--nothing wrong with that. But if they don't want to, I think it's unfortunate for parents to force their will on their child.</p>
<p>To everyone contemplating misspellings to save you from Ivy angst--don't count on it! Although I read my S's essay at least 10 times looking for grammar and spelling issues, his essay to Yale had 2 slight misspellings/typos. Ouch! Found about 10 minutes after he hit "send". He was admitted to Yale anyway.</p>
<p>Chuckles on post #2 from Kluge. My kid DID say, "I'm only going to Yale if I don't get into Notre Dame." He's at ND and loving every second. His step-dad and I had lots more internal conflict over this than he ever did, if he ever did...Prestige didn't mean a hoot to him, but it IS difficult to turn down HYP. It was his decision though, and it's turned out better than I could have ever dreamed possible.</p>
<p>I second the advice of others to apply to HYP if parents are footing the ap bill and then reaches/matches of his choosing. The Andison story stuck with me and S went with the side of caution. Come April, choices are a good thing.</p>
<p>At Harvard, you don't just get invited to join a finals club. You get "punched" and then attend numerous activities to hobnob. After all of that, you're invited to join. (Or not.)</p>
<p>There's a lot of people at Harvard (actually, the majority) who have no part of that life and are very happy.</p>
<p>That being said, my kids were not interested in applying to Princeton because of the eating clubs.</p>
<p>Srystress: My kid left out the whole Summer Activities section of her Harvard app by accident and realized it the next day.</p>
<p>She figured it would only draw more attention to it if she called and tried to fix it, so she left it alone. (Besides, she had no exciting summer activities to speak of, anyway.)</p>
<p>She was admitted too.</p>
<p>Well the punch things sounds even worse to me, but at least my friend's daughter did choose to apply to Harvard and then to attend.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Of course, the S sabotaged his application by deliberately misspelling a word or two in his essays.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>HYP is a crapshoot for anyone. I suspect that he wasn't rejected because of a misspelled word or two. Now, if he misspelled half the essay, they might think something's up...</p>
<p>Every year, though, MIT gets a handful of applications with a note or essay saying something like "I am only applying to your school because my parents made me. Please don't accept me."</p>
<p>I applaud your friend for feeling as he does about the college he will attend. But if he does attend any Ivy League college I am certain he will both obtain a very fine education and enjoy himself immensely.</p>
<p>Peoples biases blind them to the fact that both can be found at many colleges and universities across the country.</p>
<p>Maybe I'm just feeling a little contrary tonight, but something about the situation doesn't ring true, and sounds a little whiny.</p>
<p>The Ivies vary so greatly that I'm certain he could find something to make him happy - "Oh darn, gotta go to Princeton?!"</p>
<p>If the parents are so tied up in prestige that the son wants MIT, but that's not good enough, or he wants Michigan, but they don't want to save money and send him there - then I'm not sure that there will be a happy outcome, because they are being unrealistic. </p>
<p>I guess I think he should apply to a number of schools - reaches and matches - then fight this battle when he has been admitted.</p>
<p>A more common and sadder situation is when the parents push the child to an Ivy with no clear idea of the cost. If that is the case here, then son should have a wide list, with or without his parents approval.</p>
<p>I'm wondering what the parents' financial situation is. If your friend's record is as fantastic as you suggest, the friend is definitely in a position to qualify for a very large merit scholarship from some universities. </p>
<p>Perhaps the parents don't think anything but HYP will do, but they will change their minds if son gets a letter offering a merit scholarship for $40K/yr. from a good, but non HYP level school. If your friend does his homework and can make a good argument in favor of the far less expensive school, perhaps the parents will see his point. I guess I would suggest making sure he sends out a variety of applications.</p>
<p>I think there is a larger question here than whether or not the friend will get a fine education at HYP even if that is not his choice--of course he will. The more important point is, the son is tired of doing his parents' bidding and wants to make an important decision about his own future on his own. If the choice is a resentful graduate of HYP vs. an independent, self-sufficient graduate of a fine, but less prestigious, institution, then I would choose the latter.</p>
<p>"She wasn't pressured--she was invited and I'm sure felt flattered but conflicted. Didn't want to be part of an exclusive club, but didn't want to say no. Internal pressure. Probably no different from frats or sororities although those you choose to rush for I guess."</p>
<p>I'm wondering what in the world this could have been. There are female societies and sororities at Harvard, but none of them would invite someone to join unless that person came to rush events. Maybe this is a new group. Or mybe the story got jumbled somewhere along the line, and she was invited to apply, not to join. </p>
<p>It's surprising to me that a Harvard undergrad would find it hard to say no to a commitment; everybody has a million obligations and could never hope to say yes to every invitation. At every meal, you're always hearing "Come to my South Asian cultural fair/a cappella jam/field hockey tournament/women-in-science symposium!" etc. etc. When someone asks you to something boring, you can just say "Sorry, I'm busy every night between now and Christmas" and it may even be true.</p>
<p>It probably was an invitation to apply, maybe like the "punch" mentioned earlier. The point is, she was socially uncomfortable with it. I brought it up in response to the question of "what's not to love about HYP?" as if they are a good fit for everyone. Amherst, Williams and Swarthmore probably aren't the best fit for a lot of people, though they certainly are wonderful schools. Parents can attempt to manipulate their kids any way they want, but it usually leads to lasting bad feelings in my experience.</p>
<p>Bethievt:</p>
<p>I'm afraid that my reaction is very similar to Hanna's. Unless your young friend is surrounded by close friends who love belonging to sororities and felt awkward turning down their urging to join, I don't see what the problem is. Was she harassed? Was she ostracized? Does she feel that unless she joins she will be marginalized? My S could not tell you the names of the Finals Clubs. He knows they exist. They play no role whatsoever in his social life.
While some Harvard students are undoubtedly wealthy and some are super-affluent, there are plenty who are not and attend on scholarships. Just yesterday, a young woman, an international student, mentioned that she chose Harvard over Oxford because Oxford did not offer her financial aid. I did not ask, but I presume she is on finaid at Harvard, as are a goodly number of S's friends. </p>
<p>If some friends make one uncomfortable, then choose different friends. Harvard is big enough for that.</p>
<p>I think she was afraid she'd be marginalized, maybe groundlessly.</p>
<p>As Hannah says, students are incredibly busy at Harvard - and I'm talking about with their extra curriculars. A punch means nothing more than someone was thinking of you and thought you might be interested in thinking about joining their group. I could understand if someone very much wanted to be punched and wasn't. That could be a problem. However, being punched and not going to the events ... it's no big deal.</p>
<p>Harvard is definitely big enough for everyone to find their niche.</p>
<p>OP: I am curiuos to know why your friend is so anti-Ivy. They are filled with all types of people from all walks of life and socioeconomic groups. Certainly Brown is very different than Harvard which is very different than Cornell which is very different than Columbia. The Ivies offer urban and rural locations, as well as college and university settings. It sounds like your friend resents his parents' intrusion into his life at this level, which makes sense. He should be careful, however, to cast a wide net, and not limit his opportunities out of resentment to his folks. If he truly wants a totally different type of school such as Bard, for example, he may want to present his parents with a list of solid reasons. Maybe he needs a stress free environment at this point in his life. (I wouldn't blame him with parental pressure like you're describing.)</p>
<p>No one should apply to just the Ivies anyway. There are no guarantees.</p>
<p>My kids opted not to apply to Swarthmore or Amherst after visiting. They're great schools. Different strokes for different folks. All the more reason to visit while lists are being prepared.</p>
<p>Thanks for the info twinmom. I'm glad to hear it. I'm not sure the OP's friend is anti-Ivy so much as maybe wanting to pick his own college. For my son, none of the Ivies sounded like a good fit, though Brown would have been the closest. Of course, they are all great schools, but he wanted a small quirky LAC. When we have so many great schools of so many different types to choose from, doesn't it make sense to maximize the fit?</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>he wanted a small quirky LAC.>></p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>That's a very good reason not to apply to Ivies! S1 wanted a LAc, also. Dartmouth came close, but was too cold.</p>
<p>Dartmouth was WAYYY too close to home!</p>
<p>Bethievt: Absolutely! That's why my son is at a quirky LAC too!</p>