From a parent that's been there

Parents Social Lounge
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<p>These comments are directed to obsessed parents such as I was a few years ago. Life was a pressure cooker waiting for SAT scores and working every angle to make son (and later my daughter) look as good as possible on paper. I was so focused on which school was the best, I was a laser beam. Here's what I learned for what it's worth.</p>

<p>First, it's natural to want the very best for your kid, even if he or she seems disinterested. What I've learned is pretty amazing and looking back I see so many parents in exactly the same position as I was. You want to help but you don't want to push too hard. You desperately want your kid to understand how important this process is. By the time they're seniors many of them are getting to mimic us in obsessive traits. It's so damn important to do well that everyone has bad stomachs, short tempers, panic attacks, headaches. The stress is unbearable. Remember this time well for nothing I or anyone else can say will likely change what you're going through. But I promise you this...in a few years you'll look back and laugh at how absurd it all was.</p>

<p>We worked with our son from 8th grade on to put together meaningful extra-curriculars and of all the things I can recommend, this has proved the most important. But you need to understand that the people reviewing applications see so much that they can spot the phony a mile away. Don't think that more is better. Rather, it's all about the quality of experience and how they relate to one another that catches people's attention. More importantly, these things are used when writing a resume in preparation for job interviews. Here's what worked for my son:</p>

<p>Eagle Scout
Black Belt in Karate
Travel to Egypt, Turkey, Italy, France, Switzerland, Spain
Summer at Penn for HS students
Sat 1410 GPA 3.5 in most rigorous HS curriculum</p>

<p>Accepted at: Miami of OH, RIT, BU, Babson, Illinois, GW
Waitlisted and later accepted at Johns Hopkins
Rejected: Penn</p>

<p>All of the schools that excepted him with the exception of Johns Hopkins offered a half tuition scholarship. He wanted to go into business or economics and chose Babson. While there were pros and cons to all the schools including Babson, he did do a summer in London where he interned at a PR firm and took a course at London School of Economics. He later interned at a Boston marketing research firm. His GPA in college was 3.4 and he interviewed with 20 companies before landing a position with a subsidiary of Siemens in IT dept. Ultimately, his extra-curriculars caught the recruiter's eye. Siemens is a big international firm and saw his international experiences coupled with solid academics and leadership potential as evidenced with the Eagle award and Black Belt as important. From this vantage point, his co-curriculars were important for getting into a good school but more importantly getting a great job.</p>

<p>From where he's at now he has a great future ahead. He's got a good starting salary, wonderful benefits package, lots of growth potential and he's happier now than at any time in his life. Was all the work worth it, yes. Was the obsession that he was rejected at Penn worth it, NO. The point is, that for my son, the things he did outside of school were more significant than grades or SAT scores in the long run. Once school is through, regardless of where they go, the things that most distinguish your kid is what life experiences they've had. Kids with great academics are a dime a dozen. From what I've observed good academics are sufficient with life experiences that stand out to get into a good school and land a good job.</p>

<p>Keep in mind that you need to allow your kid to make changes in their majors and even in their schools if things aren't going well. As a parent you might preach from your position of authority what you think is the best thing for them but ultimately it will be them that choose what works. I think about how I felt he was screwed by Penn after doing a summer there but now I'm happy it turned out as it did. And more importantly, my son is happy. He didn't know he'd end up in IT but that's where he found a comfortable home. Interestingly, Penn isn't known for it's outstanding IT graduates and ditto Johns Hopkins. So, allow for change and think about life after college. </p>

<p>The bottom line to me now is that the college your son or daughter attends might have some impact on getting their first job and if they go on for graduate studies. But it's really all about your kid and their experience more than the school they attend. Once they get a job it will be about what they do then that counts. If you prep them well with long term activities that give them meaningful goals, staying power, teamwork and records of achievement outside of school, it will have a far greater impact on their future than whether the school was an Ivy or top 10. </p>

<p>Just my humble opinion.</p>

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<p>"Travel to Egypt, Turkey, Italy, France, Switzerland, Spain "</p>

<p>Unless your S did something like worked a job to pay for those trips, his travels probably didn't impress admissions officers. Instead, his travels made him stand out as an applicant who was fortunate enough to live in a family affluent enough to afford such expensive trips. Because such studens have so many advantages, admissions officers expect more of them than they would of students in more modest circumstances.</p>

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<p>Northstarmom, </p>

<p>Don't be a poobah! We know you know admissions. I don't think that was the OP's point. Rather, it is to think long term, and to note that great things happen to kids that don't go to the name elites, and that things that may not work for undergrad admissions may work for job hunting. </p>

<p>pghdad, congrats to your son. Seimens is a great company, as you know, with lots of opportunity. My d graduated from one of those top ten name institutions. Many of her classmates are still job hunting (in fairness, for many reasons, some of them motivational, but still...), so, as we all know, name colleges don't always do it.</p>

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<p>I got it.
your story is inspiring. It is nice to know that a parent's diligence does pay off. Cogratulations.</p>

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<p>^^ I think the OP would agree that it was the son's diligence that paid off, not the parent's. We can't do it for them. Thank you, pghdad, for telling your story. You've made me forget about my empty nest sadness and look forward to watching the next four years unfold.</p>

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<p>You are right.</p>

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<p>My read about the list of travel experiences was that they were just that: not any advantage to college entrance, but great experiences to have in his pocket as he heads into his life.</p>

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<p>My son traveled to Turkey and Egypt with my wife. She owns a clothing boutique and generally goes overseas once every three years to purchase items for her store. He wrote about his impressions of the grand bazaar in Cairo and the Whirling Dervishes in Istanbul as part of a senior project. He visited Europe with his HS language class. Rest assured we are not wealthy. I stayed home as we couldn't afford all of us going. My wife and I felt the experience would be better for him and I agreed.</p>

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<p>"Rest assured we are not wealthy"</p>

<p>And what if you were? From reading the posts here, you'd think there were no affluent kids in the Ivy Leagues. </p>

<p>Regardless, your son got into 7/8 schools he applied to, chose one where he was able to thrive and now has a great start in the "real world". I know it wasn't the point of your post, but you have a right to be very proud!</p>

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<p>RE: Foreign travel...</p>

<p>The truth is that foreign travel experiences are all to easy to purchase if you are wealthy enough. For example, there are plenty of tours designed to get HS students to a number of countries with "experiences" built into the price - experiences that in theory will look like exciting volunteer activities overseas.</p>

<p>Curiously, the same thing exists at the collegiate level. You can purchase a nice safe "volunteer" experience in a developing country that <em>might</em> look fine on a fellowship application, if you have enough money. </p>

<p>Or you can have a more genuine experience through something you put together yourself. For example, last summer, my D flew to Bolivia on her own in June. She had lined up an apartment share through Craig's list. When she got there she networked into a local hospital and shadowed residents and physicians for two months. She saw terminally ill TB patients who coughed blood on her, and watched some die. She saw the health care culture close up at its worst. She caught typhoid and recovered from it. She saw miners strikes and political demonstrations as the only anglo (i.e. non Bolivian indian) present. She had the experience of a lifetime that served as the core of her scholarship/fellowship applications, and she won big. She also came close to meltdown more than once from the culture shock. </p>

<p>The problem is that admissions folks for undergrad and fellowship reviewers know far more about this than we do, and are well attuned to subtle cues in applications and essays that distinguish purchased, sanitized experiences from the real thing.</p>

<p>OTOH, employers are looking for something different - comfort with international travel, cultural awareness and such, so they use a different bar. In fact, I doubt any employer other than a developing country NGO would care at all about my D's down and dirty experience. After all, no employee of a multinational would be subject to the conditions D saw. </p>

<p>Different experiences have different benefits. We just need to keep that in mind.</p>

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<p>newmassdad, although a prospective employer wouldn't "care" about your D's down and dirty experience in terms of job experience, that's the kind of thing that strengthens a person to their core, and those kind of characteristics are prized by any employer.</p>

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<p>Great OP !</p>

<p>Thanks for sharing it.</p>

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<p>No offense to the original poster, but this sounds like a life lived vicariously through a child. Wouldn't the kid have been better to work to his own comfort level? </p>

<p>I went to undergrad and grad at these so-called top 10 elite schools and did well. Why? Well, having zero parental support of any kind throughout my high school days, I was going to be damned if the rich or coddled kids thought they were better. You bet I was motivated - it burned me up to see rich, or even just coddled or doted on kids, kids do better than me. </p>

<p>Now, I don't recommend going through my experience- in fact, it did not make me better - just often more miserable. But I did have a keen sense of what I wanted to do, and an unbeatable feeling that achievements were entirely my own. We parent hover and spoil too much. </p>

<p>By the way, I never get the obsession with some of these schools - although I understand credentialism to a degree. Emphasize - particularly with boys - the importance of being mentally tough and competitive when it counts - and the rest tends to follow in its place, no matter where one goes to school.</p>

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<p>I also went through school with very little support from my parents, both emotionally and financially. But it gives me a great pleasure to know I am able to provide more emotional and financial support to my daughters that my parents were able to give me. </p>

<p>My older daughter feels comfortable in calling me up any time to share many of her personal ups and downs. Am I living vicariously through her? No, I am just happy to be able to share it with her. It's not the kind of life I want now, but it's a life she is very happy at.</p>

<p>My daughter, like so many kids out there, has grown up with many material goods. But does she know what she wants to do with her life, or how she wants to give back to our society? Absolutely. It's my daughter that decided she wanted to be a straight A student in HS and go to the best school possible. It's my daughter that decided she wanted to dance 20 hours a week. She worked full time this summer and will be working close to 15 hours a week at school. Fortunately, she does not need to work to have spending money. She is doing it because she wants to be more independent and she is also getting to do what she loves the most - to teach ballet.</p>

<p>mam1959- my daughter's achievement to date is probably greater than what I have achieved at her age. Like so many supportive parents out there, the only thing we have done is to let our kids know we are there if they should ever need us to be there. Like many responsible kids out there, my older daughter has rarely asked for our help unless she absolutely needed it. I would like to think some of my older daughter's achievements is attributed to our unconditional love for her. I think that's what OP did for his/her son. Thank-you for sharing the story.</p>

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<p>Also overlooked, and not really part of the OP's message, is the great list of what appear to be match and reach schools.</p>

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<p>A few weeks ago my son called home and was so excited to tell us about the new friends he has made and some of the projects he's working on. Keep in mind that he was apprehensive about working for a big corporation up until the day he started. I assured him that if all else failed he could always work for himself like his mother and dad do. </p>

<p>As we talked about how different and better his job was than what he anticipated he stopped, got quiet for a moment and then very uncharacteristically told me how much he appreciated everything that we did for him. He said "Dad, you said that one day I'd look back and understand why you wanted me to see things through, even when I wanted to quit. Why I needed to do well in school. Now I understand. No way would this have been possible if you would have just let me hang out with the guys and not care as much." At that moment I knew that my son had crossed over into adulthood. I felt good for him and me. It validated a job well done. I never received that kind of care from my parents. They never went to college and didn't have a clue about which was better or why. They valued work only and never play. They never thought about personal growth from experience. I determined that my kids would have an advantage, not of money but of parents that cared deeply and who took a keen interest in their formative years. I had always hoped that he would find himself in a place where he was happy, confident, in the company of good friends and could begin his adult journey further along than where I started. I'm very blessed that it turned out as it did and that he's excited that his company will pay for his MBA. All the people in his department are young and bright. His boss is 30 and an excellent role model. In fact, the one thing in common with everyone is they have exciting experiences in their background. One co-worker did 2 tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan and is a Marine lieutenant. Another took a year off to play semi-pro soccer in Italy. Another is a golden gloves champion and yet another was on competitive mountain climbing team. Apparently, the company saw the value of hiring people with interesting backgrounds as part of building a cohesive work environment where everyone had a measure of achievement and success. Thus the premise of my original post about the value of experience to help get into a good school but also the dividends it could pay when applying for a job afterwards. I'm happy for my son and now my daughter is following in her own way. Right now my wife and her are in Thailand. When they return she will begin her second year at Drexel with something that I'm sure will benefit her in similar ways.</p>

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<p>I hate the self-righteous attitude of so many posters who think that any parent who provides abundantly for their children is somehow guilty of living through their children, or that going abroad on a self-financed trip is ALWAYS more enriching than a "comfy" paid-for-by-mom-and-dad one.</p>

<p>A few examples from my own life:</p>

<p>1) I grew up in what many here would consider a third-world country (it is not, but that is a different story). My parents were well off by local standards, and I never missed anything material. In fact, I was often one of the better off kids from a financial standpoint. Did that turn me into a brat always seeking money and material things? I don't think so. In fact, my wife always chides me that just because I don't give a rats a*s what I am getting paid as long as I like what I do, does not mean that other people are not motivated by a bigger salary.</p>

<p>2) A few years ago we took our D on a whirlwind round-the-world trip. Twenty flights and eight countries in nine weeks. We paid for it all, she did not contribute a dime. However, in China she experienced first-hand what it meant to be "different" (tall and blonde) and "stared at" left and right. It taught her a thing or two about diversity and acceptance of others that she will not forget for a long, long time.</p>

<p>Would D have been more mature if she had to work harder for things in HS? Possibly, but so what? There is plenty of time in life to be an adult, responsible for many things and tied down by visible and invisible strings. The late teens and early 20s are a unique time in a person's life, that are too easy to squander. My take on child upbringing is: give them your values, give them everything you possibly can afford so they could do most things they want, and things will turn out OK. </p>

<p>As my father used to say, giving your kids things you can afford does not spoil them, but depriving them of things you can afford for the sake of "teaching them the hard facts of life" usually breeds resentment and turns out bad. The comments on this thread about "it burned me up to see rich, or even just coddled or doted on kids, kids do better than me" is proof positive to that effect.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I hate the self-righteous attitude of so many posters who think that any parent who provides abundantly for their children is somehow guilty of living through their children, or that going abroad on a self-financed trip is ALWAYS more enriching than a "comfy" paid-for-by-mom-and-dad one.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think you're being a bit tough on us "poorer" folks who perhaps can't afford the all expenses paid trips. Yes, I said DIY trips can lead to "a more genuine experience", but mostly because the DIY trips I know mean living like a local, and working with locals.</p>

<p>Of course a comfy trip has value. What travel doesn't? I suppose it just depends on what one expects to get out of the travel? "However, in China she experienced first-hand what it meant to be "different" (tall and blonde) and "stared at" left and right." I guess that counts for something. Hope she got more than that out of the trip...</p>

<p>yea, I guess I'm self righteous in your book. So be it.</p>

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<p>In my opinion traveling is very important to the upbringing of a child. It doesn’t necessarily need to be far off travels or an expensive travels. You will find exciting places, cultures with in the mainland USA or near by Mexico, Canada, Hawaii, Alaska, etc. The only thing you need is to budget for the travel in advance.
I've traveled since my childhood with my parent, on my own, with my wife and with my wife and daughter. I've traveled on a budget and without one too. I've traveled on a motorcycle, by car, by a public bus, train, air, ship. Every travel has it own charm, teaches you something, may not always end up as you planned but has always been worth the hassles.
So I think everyone should travel once a while and should encourage their children to travel too.
Travel is not just for rich but is for everyone. The more important thing is how you manage what you earn and not how much you earn. But many people don't understand and will say I can’t do this because I don't earn high enough.</p>

<p>I don't think it has any relation to college admission but is a very good asset for a real life.</p>