Even armed with lists of everything you can possibly think of, you will still never know everything you might want to going into a decision. All the best research in the world won’t prevent unexpected homesickness, difficulty finding “your people”, a bad break up, a much loved instructor from leaving the program, or getting assigned the roommate from hell. So really the difference between a handful of gen eds, and no gen eds can start to seem fairly trivial in the greater scheme of things as you compare schools.
Shenandoah has six gen ed classes, the rest are embedded in the curriculum.
At some schools, if you’re not already covering the ged ed reqs with AP/IB/DE credits, the school might accept CLEP credits from the College Board. It’s worth checking.
Credit for AP Stats may or may not satisfy the math requirement at a given university. My advice is to always take a DE college algebra class if offered. It’s all you need for 98% of programs. If your student is not a strong math kid or just hates it and wants to open up some time in an already packed freshman year, I highly advise looking into taking college algebra summer between senior year of hs and freshman yr of college. My daughter would have liked to take a lab science in college but labs don’t really fit into the schedule. Instead she took Natural Disasters and Food and Nutrition (which isn’t that easy). She is a junior and only has two more gen eds to take (required 30).
RE: Post #23… interestingly, where I teach AP Stats (with a 4 or above on the test would satisfy the math requirement), but DE college level algebra would not. It would count towards elective credit, but not toward the quantitative requirement in the Math and Science GenEd Cluster. All students here regardless of degree program… BA, BM, BFA, BBA, BS… all have to meet that math requirement.
Every school is different, and you neverr know what they will accept towards meeting a requirement and what they will not.
In other news @walker1194 … time flies! I cannot believe that your D is already a junior. So great to hear how she is doing!
Yes, time has flown! I’m still a little sad that she didn’t go to JMU but I can’t complain about her choice!
@walker1194 - I wonder about the 98% acceptance of DE…I have known a number of people for whom they didn’t work. Maybe they are all in the 2% of schools…
YMMV depending on school. My point is that DE is widely accepted (caveat is also some colleges will only accept DE if it’s in connection with a 4 yr university as opposed to a CC) and it can’t hurt to get your math credit using DE if it’s available. I would not recommend DE over AP for pretty much any other course. AP is generally considered more rigorous and standardized than DE.
I think an important point with DE is to know who the provider will be. Many HS (including the one where I teach) use a CC as their go-to provider b/c they are cheaper per credit hour. Sometimes there is another option - but you have to “fight” for it. And academically competitive schools are less likely to recognize CC credit
Hmm so my D has a public speaking class coming up next semester that she has the option of making dual enrollment. It is DE thru a comm college. Do you think it would be worth it to take the DE option? Eapecially since its public speaking…would that be considered as an elective then in college that it would count for?
@theaterwork … The way dual enrollment worked in my kids high school is that you paid X amount for the specific class(es) but they were only guaranteed to be accepted at these specific (in-state) schools.
I think the absolute correct answer to your question can only be found by taking a close look at both your high school program AND the university your child will attend. Which, since your D is a MT kid, that college is very much still up in the air.
My 2 cents— if the requirements are same regular/DE - go for DE- it can’t hurt, and may or may not garner elective credits for later. BUT, if it requires a bunch more work etc- then don’t b/c odds are it won’t replace a gen ed
@theaterwork, the only way to correctly answer your question is for you to sit down and call admissions for every school on you Ds list and ask about DE. That is what I did for my kids. I did it before we made the decision to switch to DE courses, and I did it when choosing which courses to take. I called numerous schools before we even had a list, just to get a general idea of the acceptance of DE credit, then as my kids formed their lists, I checked with each school on the list to see if DEs were accepted.
That said, it has been argued over and over on this forum whether or not schools accept them, and even when I state my personal experience, there are still people that disagree and say that what I say is not true. Anyway, just for your info on the public speaking, one of my kids did take a DE public speaking class and every college applied to accepted that credit (kid is not MT). The course was taken at a 4 year institution, not a CC. Some of the schools that accepted the credit were state flagships, SMU, University of Denver, and Baylor.
I would also like to add that Cornell University, an Ivy, does accept dual enrollment and even their engineering department will accept courses from a community college. The basis for their decision is the course rigor, not whether it was taught at a 2 or 4 year institute. I was told this early in my kids’ high school career, and as a result we kept very good records of all important test, essays, and every course syllabus. This is in reference to transfer students, not DE, but it does address the Cornell philosophy on 2-year vs 4-year college education. https://www.engineering.cornell.edu/admissions/undergraduate/apply/transfer/faqs.cfm#CP_JUMP_8725
Again, you will not get a definitive answer unless you call each school. It is time consuming, but worth it to get correct answers. And, as you get closer to making your decision, if acceptance of the DE credit is important to you I would email and get it in writing from each school you are considering. By then you should have a much smaller list.
Yikes this is alphabet soup! What the heck are you guys talking about? DE, AP, IB, XYZ. Doesn’t anyone go to high school any more just for the learning that happens in high school?
How common is the, let’s get college out of the way before we even get there stuff? It is a world I know zero about. My kids’ high schools had none of it. No AP classes, no DE whatever the heck that is. I really missed the party.
It does seem like the only way to come close to mapping out accepted credits would be direct contact with schools. But then you have to get lucky enough to find someone that actually can answer the question correctly and trust that the devil in the details of whatever you are bringing to the party would not change the answer. It sounds like a nightmare.
The college counseling at both of my kids’ high schools (different schools) strongly advised that the student, not the parent initiate any direct contact with the colleges they were pursuing. It was a huge pain in the neck in our case because of the 3 hour time difference meaning that by the time school was over, the east coast schools were closed for the day. I admit, sometimes I had to call on their various behalf’s during the work day but it made me nervous. I’d be curious to know what @KatMT, might have to say about whether that was good advice or unnecessary caution. We were serial rule followers.
DE = dual enrollment (credit towards high school and college)
AP = advanced placement (can take a course end test which, if scored high enough will place you out of that class for college)
IB = international baccalaureate program
I agree that student’s should handle as much of the communication themselves as possible. If phone calls aren’t possible, I would have them email. But if there is a need for a quick answer, and the student is not able to make the call, I think it is ok at that point for a print to call. Especially given the time difference.
^^^Thank you @vvnstar. Not concepts at either of my kids’ (private) high schools. They were too busy just kicking their butts on the subjects at hand which hopefully provided the foundation they needed to successfully apply to college and successfully get through college. But believe me after the fact, I sort of regret that I didn’t understand the system and advantages that it can provide.
Students that enter with college credits earned from any of that alphabet soup get bonuses like priority registration classes because by credits, they are not freshman with zero credits earned. I also saw better housing lottery numbers assigned because those are often assigned by number of credits too. None of these things mean squat about how ready a student necessarily would be for handling college work in comparison to a student who came out of a system that didn’t include those things but yeah. I learned about this after the fact and to be honest, I’m not sure how I feel about it for any purpose other than providing a suitable level of challenge for a student who might need it. To me, that would be the primary goal. Any flexibility in completing Gen Ed coursework early after that so you can customize your college experience is a bonus.
My D will probably do the dual enrollment option for this class only. If it works out fine if not it’s ok. It’s not overly expensive really. Her school offers AP classes and DE but not a lot of options a bigger school offers. She has one AP class this yr and it’s just cause she loves English. (It’s AP Lang) but I know kids who have 3 and 4 AP this yr and that’s on top of honors classes and rehearsals and showcases and … It’s crazy . I didn’t want her up till 1 am doing homework. She has other stuff and math is her talisman so she has to try to just maintain a decent grade in there. I understand the college prep classes but sometimes I think some kids go overboard and create too much stress on themselves. Let’s face it we have our whole adult lives to be stressed!
DE and AP have indeed allowed my kids special privileges like early room selection, close in parking lots, early registration, etc. One of my kids was even inducted into Phi Kappa Phi at beginning of second year of attending college, which opened the door to apply for many extra scholarships usually not available until 4th year of college. Same kid was easily able to triple major because all GenEds, plus a few others, were done by high school graduation.
For MTs, having completed many or all of the GenEds before starting college just allows more time for extra electives in dance, acting, voice, etc. We thought by doing this my kid is actually getting more education. Why repeat something (college calculus, physics, chemistry, political science, psychology, etc,) that they already know? Much better to use that time on classes to further their career in MT. And if they happen to be interested in history or psychology or math, they can still take those courses in college, but can take the ones that interest them and not the ones required to fit a prescribed curriculum. We just felt that DE and AP was a great way to take care of everything at once. And because the DE classes were at a college where we chose the day and time of the courses (as well as how many each semester) it actually was easier for a kid in performing arts than attending school M-F from 7-4, which was our schedule before switching to DE. We had the option of no classes on Fridays when performing a 70 show run at a theatre, night classes to allow for private lessons during the day, and many other options.
After having done DE with more than one kid and having my kids apply to numerous colleges, I would do it again in a heartbeat. It was the best choice we ever made in their education.
Everyone should make their own choices based on what is available to them. D took 4 ap classes senior year, and was in up to 3 shows at a time…she has frequently mentioned that she is GLAD she did- b/c if she hadn’t been an expert in time management (and accompanying stress) before college she never would have been able to handle to schedule demands of a BFA
As far as who initiates the calls to colleges, I began making the calls when my oldest was only in 9th grade (MT kid even younger). Some of the schools that I inquired about for my MT kid were for engineering programs because, at the time, that was the intended major. No way would I have had a kid that young calling and asking the questions I asked. I explained why I was asking (considering putting my kids in a DE program --what do you think, would you accept the credits, is AP better in your opinion, etc). Several schools gave yes/no type answers, but several spent a lot of time with me advising which courses to take/not take (if engineering, save physics for the engineering school), how to keep records of the courses (tests, syllabus, essays, etc). If you call, there is no need to give your real name actually (I did, but it isn’t necessary). As my kids aged and became seriously interested in schools, they spoke with the schools about specifics. But anything that involved what high school I would choose to send my kid to, I think is ok to involve a parent. That was basically the decision I was making and just seeking input from various college admissions departments.