Perhaps because both of my kids attended HS’s that you had to apply to get into including interviews, essays, scores from some silly test as part of that application, the last thing I was thinking about the first or second and some of the third year in HS was college. My hat is off to all of you who were on that early if it provided advantage as well as access to a great free education. It may have crossed my mind that attending these particular schools would set them up well for college or whatever came next but that was as far as my thinking went at the time. In hindsight, there appears to be a way to work some of this stuff to one’s advantage and it is worth knowing about. But also in hindsight, the fact that I didn’t know it didn’t deprive either of my kids from a bang up education. Many paths…
By the way, DE also means Distance Education, another way to get college credit.
Yes I agree @toowonderful that the rigors in high school of numerous AP classes and show rehearsals do prepare your kid for college rigor in an MT program. My D goes to an arts high school . …Now she is never in 3 shows at a time (yikes) as she is not allowed to do community theatre during the school yr, only school shows and they are never more then one at a time although they are fairly constant. She has a play now, a musical in Nov . A holiday show, and a musical in the spring. Interspersed w/ those are indiv as well as group showcases and she is required to be in a chorus which has concerts as well…so I think she’s going to be pretty well prepared for multi tasking. Having said that she is , at the end of the day, just turned 16. She is a smart girl who makes good grades and tries hard. She is a perfectionist about her voice and MT which I know will serve her well in college but I stand by my statement that I feel we push the high schoolers too hard to overachieve. i know for a lot of kids the AP classes don’t cause stress because it comes easy to them but I bet they still get a bit stressed from the pressure of keeping up. In college you are more mature at least so you can handle things better then when you are a teen…just my thoughts
@theaterwork- these are all very personal decisions, and I really don’t think there is a “right” or “wrong” way to do it. Know your kid, set goals, and go from there 
many paths, one journey
My kids’ experience pretty much mirrored your kids, even though yours went to private high schools and mine went to a rural public school. There was no thinking about getting college credits out of the way whatsoever. My kids did a lot of acceleration, independent studies, some long distance courses, etc. but ONLY due to trying to meet their learning needs and the appropriate level of challenge for its own sake but not to obtain college credits.
When they were in college, they took the requirements to get a degree and entered without any credits. One went to Brown where there are NO “gen eds.” Brown has an open curriculum and the student chooses to take whatever courses she wants to take. There are requirements for the major. The other kid went to NYU/Tisch. I never even had heard of the term “gen eds” until on CC. NYU/Tisch has liberal arts credits required, but there is a HUGE range of courses one can take and so it is very open to selecting what you wish to take outside of conservatory training classes. There are requirements to take X number of Theater Studies classes (wide range available) and X number of liberal arts courses, but no specific ones (other than Freshmen Writing, which I don’t think anyone can place out of and in fact, my daughter enjoyed).
The only time one of my kids used credits earned while in high school was my older D upon applying to graduate schools. For her intended graduate field of study, two math credits were required for admission. My D did not take any math in college. However, she had AP Calculus AB in junior year of high school (the only AP course our HS offered at the time) and a score on the AP test that qualified, plus in her senior year of high school, having exhausted our school’s math curriculum, she took AP Calculus BC through Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth (long distance). She had taken the AP exam for that as well and so these two math courses were used for admission into grad school. But again, no courses in high school were taken to obtain college credits or to get out of something in college.
As to calling colleges…I believe that calls or emails to professors or departments and things like that, should be made by the high school student. I think that logistical calls like lining up a college tour can be made by a parent.
When my MT D was in tenth grade and strongly advocated to us that she wanted to graduate HS a year early, I called schools on her potential list ANONYMOUSLY to inquire if they are willing to admit early graduates. I did this because I didn’t want to let her go ahead with the early graduation plan if it was going to be a problem with admissions. I never gave my name and wasn’t discussing my D with anyone in admissions. I just asked the question. It turned out that every school said they will take early graduates if they have earned a high school diploma. I don’t think it mattered who made that call as no names were given and it was just to a receptionist.
I have often wondered what a student really means when they say they want a program with few if any gen eds. At the extreme, is that actually code for: I don’t want to write any papers, take any tests, I just want to sing, dance, act and watch others do the same and have this be the basis for my grades? Or is it simply: I don’t mind papers and tests as long as they are in classes that have the word, “theatre” in them somewhere?
Programs are structured differently. If you examine the detailed curriculum guides at various programs you can see that what some schools count as coursework in their core professional training, other schools may refer to those same classes as theatre studies classes and/or classes that would be considered gen ed electives. And then even within what most schools consider core professional performance training, some schools might actually make you write papers or take tests in those classes as part of the basis for grading and then others would not.
Anyway, like I said, I’ve often wondered what the student that says “no gen eds” really means. An awful lot of stories in this forum about “no math.” Is that it?
I think @halflokum just hit the nail on the head! There is huge diversity in why kids take AP, DE, or IB, and also why they inquire about the GenEds in a program. For some, inquiring about GenEds is because they hate “academic” type classes (paper writing), some hate or do poorly in STEM, and all they really want to do is sing, dance and perform. Others excel in STEM and even enjoy it, but would prefer to use their college time to focus on their craft as much as possible while they have the opportunity to be taught by some of the best in the business.
Some that take AP, DE, or IB do it seeking as much knowledge as possible, truly a love of learning. Some do it to avoid having to take it in college. Some do it to give themselves time to take more courses and learn more once they begin college, again because of a love of knowledge. Some even do it because they know that the curriculum they plan to study in college will not leave time for many of the courses they can take while still in high school (this is my MT kid that took college courses in German, Italian, physics, chemistry, calculus, political science, etc while still in high school). This again was a love of learning and a quest for more knowledge. Some also do it so that the courses will be there should the kid decide later to return to school for another degree (back-up plan).
No one can say what is the correct path. You just choose what works for your individual kid and family.
Especially in the computer age, anyone with a love of learning can learn pretty much anything, any time, and people who truly have a thirst for knowledge will do just that. I suspect some of these MT kids want to spend every precious second they can that they (we) are doling out big bucks for, working on the stuff they really need to do and learn in person. Of course, before computers were a twinkle in anyone’s eye, I went to a college with no gen meds. The learning theory there was that if you are studying what you choose and are passionate about, you will learn in spades. And I loved it. But damn I wish I had had a basic economics course when I was young…
In my kids thinking she doesn’t want to sit through another math class like she has struggled with thru school, like algebra and geometry . She would be ok with a “lifestyle” math class where she is learning how to manage finances, get a loan, establish credit and buy a home etc. everyday use stuff that the kids need so much. She isn’t that negative about science it’s ok and she loves writing and English and history. She has no problem doing essays and papers so for her it’s mainly math she feels she won’t use and she hates lol. She would like most of her focus to be in classes that help her major though but she knows tests and so forth are of course required.
Micro and macroeconomics. Two other college classes one of mine was able to take while still in HS (in addition to the HS economics course)!
I’d also like to add that one of my kids had completed all GenEds needed for the intended major by senior year of high school. Since our school system was paying the tuition,that year of DE courses was used to take whatever courses seemed interesting (we did not have a college in our area that offered the necessary upper level courses for the chosen major). It was a very enjoyable year to choose classes based entirely on content and particular teachers. That kid found a great literature teacher, so took three classes from the same teacher just for the sake of learning. The courses did not fit into any curriculum and were not required by anyone.
I don’t know where you live, @Dusing2, but it sounds like a great school system!
great indeed or a mighty flexible one or at worst, one where the schools could simply not meet the needs of capable students within the high school offering as a matter of course. Any chance this is something that is state specific? Or school district specific? I’m in awe and impressed.
Actually I thought about this some more. I think I do know students that did something like this where I live but they technically were homeschooled.
The school district in my area is one of the top districts in the state, and we live in a state with a very good educational system. We have lots of choice in education here with magnet schools, neighborhood school and charter schools. Our charter schools offer lots of options and phenomenal educations, but our local district fights them at everything they do. The charter schools in our district are all locally run (none are run by the huge for-profit companies getting the bad press for charter schools), and have lots of parent, student and teacher input which is what keeps them focused on what is needed locally. Over the past few years, several charters in our area have been highly ranked by Newsweek and USNews, with a couple ending up in the top 10. Choice and options are what makes our district great, but I don’t think a great district is unique to us. There are many districts throughout the country with great schools.
@halflokum, homeschoolers have been doing something like DE for years. Many of them teach the liberal arts, and sometimes math (depending on the competency of the parents), then send the kids to a local college to take their sciences so that they may have the labs. In our state, homeschoolers can opt to homeschool on a part-time basis so they sometimes send the kids to a local high school for lab courses, choir or band. This also allows them to participate in team sports at public high schools. Some of the homeschoolers in our area will get a diploma from a mail order type school, but it isn’t accredited and I think the only purpose is to be able to say the actually graduated from a “school”. That may be what you are referring to in your area.
My D was one who wanted few gen eds (one a semester at most and no math–but she loves science), but she actually looked equally at the type of required gen eds. She wanted a plethora of choices and was genuinely excited when she read lists of possible gen eds at the colleges which have a wide variety of choices. Following her interests and passions is what she’s been used to, after all; she’s been homeschooled in an interest-based way her whole life. (Funny you should mention homeschooling, especially interest-based, @halflokum .) Even the few dual enrollment classes at a nearby university were chosen strictly by interest, not to fulfill a certain hs graduation requirement or to try to get gen eds out of the way in college. (There’s nothing wrong with the latter, btw; in the back of my mind, I did hope D could get college credit for them, and that possibility was one small reason I had her take courses at a university instead of CC. That just wasn’t the purpose of her taking them, though.) Because MT is her primary passion, that’s where she would like to focus most of her time and energy. She is interested in other subjects, but she would like to dedicate less time to them at this point.
My kid attended a magnet program (and we moved to get ourselves in the magnet area). People who live in an area with lots of choices are lucky. BUT I have known lots of kids without those additional opportunities who have gotten into great colleges, and great BFA programs. Just wanted to bring that up (again) because I remember when I was “lurking” here before D’s senior year (I didn’t post until after her 1st acceptance) I used to stress myself out quite a bit worrying about the idea that some kids had exposure to more opportunities etc. In the end- there are many pieces to the puzzle.
Since @Dusing2 talked a bit more about homeschooling…
There are as many ways to homeschool and philosophies within homeschools as there are amongst public and private schools. Some do participate in public or private school activities without taking courses there (as allowed by our state) or take one or two courses at public or private schools. I personally do not know anyone who does the latter, and I only know a few who do the former, but that number may grow because this is a new allowance in our state. Many (but not all or even most) use dual enrollment at least once. Not to say I know all of the homeschoolers in my state, but I was heavily involved in and helped run a homeschool co-op in one part of my state, started and help run one in another part, and fill out the state-required assessment forms for many in our state since I am a certified teacher. So, I do know quite a few.
Of the people I know, none use the mail order places to give a diploma or a transcript. Through nationwide email lists and forums, and through the simple fact that they exist, I do know that some homeschoolers use them, but I would bet, based on discussions I’ve read, that most don’t. Again, there’s nothing wrong with it if the company is ethical; it’s just not what I’ve seen as the usual on the national level and certainly not in my state. (All states are different. There are only a couple I’d not want to homeschool in because of laws; those contain most of the homeschoolers who feel they must have outside verification. My state is sort of the middle ground.)
If you’re curious, this is what school looked like for my D in a nutshell: as aforementioned, she followed her interests (which led her to delve into other subjects) and was self-structured; read what she wanted to read (with a few books “heavily encouraged” by me–and we have an extensive, quality library in our home on top of public library availability); took science labs at home (actually, also out in the “real world”), at a co-op, and at a university; spent many days at museums, parks, etc, even getting to know docents and naturalists; watched great films; planned and went on vacations with an eye naturally towards learning; kept up with news; because nature is a particular interest of hers, spent a lot of time outdoors observing all things nature; took ceramics, glassblowing, lampworking courses and spent time creating art (even Legos); we spent a lot of time discussing everything under the sun and exploring; etc.
I bring up the “dreaded math” on this forum kind of often. We did touch on it through the years even though D didn’t like it; we did this through real-life problems, logic games and problems, science, and, sometimes, the dreaded “traditional math”, which she acquiesced to because she knew she needed it for college. She loves that she got what she needed out of it in as relatively painless and short amount of time that she could.
To get us back to MT…
Whew! It was a ton of work to do all of the usual MT audition researching and organizing and, on top of that, create the final transcript, guidance counselor letter, school report, and detailed course descriptions, and have D’s dual enrollment transcript sent, and whatever else I’m forgetting at the moment! But, it was also rewarding and, in its own way, fun.
Where my kids grew up, there weren’t really any choices other than our public school and a private ski academy. No private day schools, no charter schools, no magnet schools, no performing arts high schools, no gifted/talented programs, etc. There was one game in town (actually, our high school wasn’t even in our town…six towns sent their kids to our rural high school). Also, our high school did not have any drama classes. Also, in the surrounding area, there were no youth theater programs. Even so, my kids grew up with many great experiences. In school,they had various accommodations such as acceleration and independent studies and a tiny bit of long distance learning too. They were involved in activities through school, but also many activities and lessons outside of school. We had to drive many miles per day to all their activities. My kids fared well in their college admissions processes, being accepted at the majority of their colleges on their lists (which were quite competitive schools) and attending first/favorite choices. So, I really do think anyone can succeed in this process, no matter what kind of school they attended for secondary education (or even homeschool) and no matter the opportunities in their area. I’m a firm believer in making the most of your opportunities and if you are an achiever, you can succeed no matter where you went to school.
Thanks for sharing the details. Most interesting journeys. @myloves I’m sure there is a good answer to this question, but how does one know whether or not they are interested in something without first trying it out? One of my kids for example was sort of dragged across the finish line to take micro economics in HS by his mother who insisted he might actually like it and reluctantly agreed to take it because it fit nicely into his block schedule. Shocker, mom was right for once and the kid loved it, then also took macro in HS and is now a business major in college and is on fire about those classes. Similar stories relating to both of my kids who discovered actual interest in required classes that in advance looked uninteresting. If given the option to just follow their interest, they would not have dabbled and would never have had the, “hey this is actually pretty cool” aha moments.
I could be wrong, but our city has a homeschool resource center that I believe is actually part of the public school system. I think if you are associated with that center, the degree actually comes from the public school system like any other HS degree. Now whether or not the district pays for college classes at community colleges, that I do not know and nor do I know how I feel about it if they do. Charter schools in our state were recently ruled unconstitutional by the state supreme court and I think had to switch to calling themselves homeschools to keep their doors open.
I fall into the category of one who embraces gen ed requirements as part of the college experience because it made me just too nervous to imagine either of my kids narrowing their fields of study too early. It’s my hang up more than theirs and honestly my kids entered college very well educated in a broad variety of subjects (including loving math) so I’m not sure why I worried about it.
Two different educational philosophies, @halflokum. Both have pros and cons, and one or the other might be better for different kids.
Everyone certainly has the right to make their own choices, and I agree with Calliene that there are pros and cons to, well, virtually everything. But I also really agree with halflokum about the value of gen eds (or just non theater course as a whole) in the college experience. After all “An educated citizenry is a vital requisite for our survival as a free people”. (Thomas Jefferson)