Getting admitted before auditions

<p>My daughter had one of those "sample" lessons with a conservatory professor recently, and after the lesson he told her that has admitted her into his studio and she doesn't need to audition on audition day. </p>

<p>My daughter's current teacher says this happens all of the time. In fact, sometimes certain studios are already filled up this way BEFORE audition day.</p>

<p>My question for those of you with this experience is: does it ever happen that such students DON'T get admitted by the school itself (excluding something like goofing off in school and getting D's and F's)? Do students who get admitted in advance like this get sizable scholarships?</p>

<p>My daughter's concern is that if she doesn't come to the audition in five months with her really tough piece (which will be ready by then but is not yet there), will she misss out on a full-ride or large scholarship?</p>

<p>Do you have an official acceptance letter from this professor? If not, I would have your D audition anyway. If you do have a letter, if it does not include a merit scholarship, then you need to ask that question of the professor: What is the procedure to apply for a merit scholarship? Honestly, without an official acceptance letter, I would consider the offer to be a “very likely to be accepted”, or," yes, if you are accepted, I would be happy to have you in my studio." Some conservatories accept into the studio only, others accept into the program, and assign studios later. My D did have the experience that a teacher told her she would be delighted to have her in her studio, but then, my D was not accepted into that program. (It didn’t matter, it wasn’t her first choice, but still…)</p>

<p>This conservatory accepts into the studio, and this professor is the only person teaching that instrument. There is no reason to doubt him.</p>

<p>My daughter is applying on two instruments and will audition on audition day on the other instrument. This professor is doing her a favor, as the two auditions are on back to back days. She will still put in the paperwork to apply (the audition application isn’t even posted yet), but she can now skip the second audition day.</p>

<p>He said she is welcome to come for more (free) lessons, so perhaps next time she will bring a hard piece. This conservatory is her top choice on this instrument.</p>

<p>I would check with admissions about any merit scholarship, and how that would work. The teacher recommends for that, I would think, but cannot award a scholarship himself. There may be some procedure after the auditions, and I would just make sure that students accepted before auditions are still considered and don’t fall through a crack.</p>

<p>I know nothing about lessons in advance or instrumental auditions, so that is just my reaction without any experience in this kind of situation.</p>

<p>I would chat with the Admissions Office about everything. Tell them what the Prof said. They will know if that is good enough, and get the paperwork from the Prof.</p>

<p>They will also know about Scholarship Auditions, and if you still need to audition for that (other people on the Committee need to hear you), or if the Prof’s recommendation is all the Scholarship Committee needs.</p>

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<p>You still have to meet the requirements of the School. If it is a highly selective school, then even C’s may be a problem. Maybe your D gets horrible rec’s from the teachers.</p>

<p>There was a poster on this forum who was admitted into a Northwestern studio but denied admission to the university - even though the professor had said she was in…</p>

<p>First of all, CONGRATULATIONS! This is an exciting time for you and your family. Getting in without an audition to her top school is amazing. I would run all of your concerns – admissions and scholarship – by the prof first. He will know how to proceed. I would not go to admissions until you have spoken with him.</p>

<p>Thanks for all the replies–good points. Spiritmanager, I see your point about Northwestern, but that university makes it clear that students need high grades and SAT scores. My daughter is an A student but can’t do the SAT (learning disability issues) so she is mostly avoiding the SAT-required schools. At this conservatory she wants to attend, she only needs a minimal score on the SAT and she should be able to do that.</p>

<p>There is no separate application for scholarships. Over the past three years, the top performing freshman on this instrument received a full-ride scholarship to the conservatory. My daughter knows them all–they were colleagues at music camp. It appears to be based entirely on musical ability.</p>

<p>My daughter still needs to go through the application procedure, and schedule an audition time on her other instrument. And she’ll still apply to the other schools on her list, although maybe fewer.</p>

<p>I can say for certain that this is not the procedure at most top-tier conservatories. Even students who have had a particular prof in a summer program or a special session have to go through the entire process and even the, it’s not a sure thing. Students who are well-known performers on their instrument have been turned down by teachers whom they know, get along well with and with whom they have spent months with in summer festivals when time comes to apply to the conservatory and their studio, and explanations are not required to be given.
It’s not uncommon to have a student given an oral “promise” of admission after a sample lesson on audition day/weekend itself, but even then, all paperwork has been submitted and auditions completed. While this sounds like a great thing for your D, I would talk to the Dean of Admissions and find out if the prof even has the authority to make such a promise (a few years back there was a real problem when a prof at a certain conservatory was telling students that “they were definitely in his studio” after each audition- the problem was that the Admissions Office had second thoughts when posts began appearing on social media or as texts to other students within minutes of an audition being completed. The prof was told to “zip it” and some of those kids had to retract their statements when they weren’t admitted to the school, much less that studio.
So, not saying that your D isn’t safe and sound with this, but it still bears checking out.</p>

<p>Again, I would check with admissions on both the acceptance, and the scholarship.</p>

<p>I think we all understand that the acceptance is based on musical ability in this conservatory, and that scholarships are also based on musical ability.</p>

<p>But it does seem possible that if she gets in early through a side door, so to speak, she could somehow miss being in the pool for the scholarship.</p>

<p>The promise of acceptance by the teacher is wonderful, but is it official, and how is that communicated to admissions? Does he mean that if admitted, she will be accepted into his studio, or can he actually admit her to the conservatory? Do you have it on paper? Can the teacher change his or her mind at all later, during audition season? </p>

<p>I don’t understand why she is auditioning on a second instrument, but again, I don’t know anything about instrumental auditions. If the first instrument is the one she loves, and she has been told she is admitted, why is she auditioning on the other instrument? Side issue, just curious how it all works.</p>

<p>I agree definitely confirm with admissions and the music school/conservatory that the acceptance is real before giving up your audition spot and see if this will effect talent scholarships. After one sample lesson the studio teacher told son that he would have no problem being accepted. However, auditions at this school were video taped and the area faculty voted on whether or not to offer talent scholarships based on the tapes that the studio teachers submitted. Glad he auditioned! ( At 3 other schools, area profs sat in on the auditions so they could determine scholarship moneys.) Definitely ask music school admissions rep if skipping the audition will impact talent dollars. Congratulations on getting the positive feedback and hope you have great weather for the upcoming auditions!</p>

<p>My DD auditioned for dance programs and you had to be admitted to both the dance program and the university itself - on an academic basis is what I am thinking. A friend’s DD was admitted to one dance program at Fordham/Alvin Ailey but didn’t have the grades to get into the University.</p>

<p>“I can say for certain that this is not the procedure at most top-tier conservatories.” (posted by mezzomama)</p>

<p>From what I’ve learned, it is precisely at the top-tier conservatories where this occurs. But perhaps this differs between instruments, voice, and depends upon how many applicants there normally are on a particular instrument. I just don’t know. I’m new to this and I never thought about it before. My daughter’s current teacher told me he was admitted this way years ago to Michigan, and I recall that my brother, again years ago, was admitted this same way to Northwestern. Both got full rides–but today is another era. My daughter is going to keep this to herself–no yapping on social media about it.</p>

<p>compmom, my daughter is equal on her two instruments and plans on studying both at conservatory. It is a bit unusual, I know, but she’s known for years she wants to be a professional musician. She won’t necessarily get a degree in both however. This week she just happened to get a lesson from one professor when he unexpectedly told her she was admitted–she didn’t come there thinking it was an audition. It was, however, her second lesson with this professor. We don’t have anything on paper; the professor just said this to me at the end of the lesson when I picked up my daughter. i suppose I’ll find out for sure when my daughter’s submitted her applications and admissions advises her she doesn’t need to come in for the audition on that instrument. It really doesn’t matter or make much difference to my daughter anyway (other than peace of mind); she’s going to be actively auditioning at other conservatories and will have her repertoire ready to go.</p>

<p>Until there is an offer in writng to which the conservatory would want an acceptance in writing, nothing is binding. In addition, schools that belong to the association of schools of music (not the exact name) have rules regarding the offering and acceptance of scholarships, thus scholarship matters are always in writing. Congrats to you and your daughter, but things being in writing is the key.</p>

<p>I totally agree with what others said, I would check with the admissions office and get it clarified, especially that the professor has that authority. It prob depends on how the school does auditions, at some schools only the department sit on the admissions process, at other schools mixed faculty can sit in…if there is only 1 teacher, it could be he would be the one doing the auditioning and this would make sense…on the other hand, if a panel was the entire music faculty (instrument or across the school) I would be a lot more cautious about a statement like that.</p>

<p>In any event, it is always better IMO to make sure and clarify, I have heard topics like this come up in seminars admissions people give and see them roll their eyes when they hear about professors telling students ‘they will be admitted’ and so forth…not saying that is true here, but always better to talk to those who handle the actual process:)</p>

<p>About a week before my son got his official acceptance letter from one of the colleges that he applied at, he got an email from the SOM saying that they had “taken care of” his admissions issue. We didn’t even know that he had an admissions issue. </p>

<p>We are assuming that he may have been initially rejected or wait-listed at the admissions office - I suspect wait-listed because several of his friends who had similar test scores and grade point averages were wait listed. So it is possible for the music department to “pull some strings”.</p>

<p>Also, at the “reach” school he applied at, the average SAT score is about 250 pts more than my son scored, yet he still was accepted, and with a large scholarship. I doubt that he would have been accepted based on academics alone.</p>

<p>I truly hope your experience is better than ours and that Congratulations are in order.</p>

<p>2 years ago my D was told exactly this at a sample lesson, 3 days before the audition. She was even told “should you decide not to accept my studio, I wish you all the best” at the audition…and then she was waitlisted! I won’t name the school here, but she was accepted to the University, just waitlisted for the studio! I wouldn’t believe anything, nor would I cancel her other auditions until you have it in writing.</p>

<p>This has turned into an interesting discussion.</p>

<p>imagep, I too suspect that grade standards and scores are waived or become more flexible with a musician the faculty really wants, much like athletics. An older daughter of mine got into USC (California) with a GPA below their norm and an SAT far below their norm–but she was an athlete they wanted. The athletic department cannot get EVERY athlete in this way, but they were allowed to push for a couple of them.</p>

<p>flute1298, I’m sorry about what happened to your daughter. As you and others are saying, we know nothing is definite unless it is in writing. My daughter plans on going ahead with all her other auditions. And those are still pretty far away.</p>

<p>Excellent feedback nonetheless, so kudos to your D, but even in her teacher’s case:

– faculty certainly has the prerogative to “recruit” and ultimately has a great degree of influence in terms of academic acceptance at Michigan but I am here to tell you I personally know a kid (not mine) who was waitlisted there despite indications otherwise.</p>

<p>When it comes to the money, at most SOMs/conservatories it’s a process that involves multiple people/personalities. Ergo, always a good idea to be presented to same so that’s you’re a majority pick, so to speak ;)</p>

<p>Woodwinds, I think what many of us are saying is, your D should still audition with this first instrument at this particular conservatory, because the scholarship offer will depend on the audition. If her second instrument is more popular, or, if she doesn’t do as well at the audition on the second instrument, then she may lose out on scholarship $ that would have been based upon her audition on the first instrument. So, your D may not only decide “on going ahead with all her other auditions” but also this particular audition as well. Good luck in any case–sounds like your D is well-prepared to continue her studies and work towards becoming a professional musician. Best wishes!</p>