<p>certainly could be part of it bamamom…but you would think then that all 3 schools would be the same</p>
<p>I disagree Parent in regards to UA’s diversity. Show me one state university that has higher than a 15% AA population outside the state of California.</p>
<p>UAB is a inner city commuter school. The comparison of UAB to UA ends with the first two letters in the name. </p>
<p>Lack of available AA students isn’t why the greek system at UA isn’t integrated. It’s because traditions die hard even when those traditions are steeped in bigotry. And that goes for both the white and black greeks at UA.</p>
<p>well, as you cant discuss it reasonably njbama ( i’m sure you are well aware that uab is NOT an inner city commuter school) i’ll step away… I was only saying that perhaps with a low percentage of black students, it may not have been seen as a priority to integrate the frats etc… and that perhaps if those numbers increased, so would the willingness to accept different races into the frats. </p>
<p>I was not trashing UA, only offering a possible reason and hoping for some discussion, so that what happened to a son that was rejected from a fraternity doesnt continue. I’ve lived here for 27 years and i think i may have some idea of the alabama schools.</p>
<p>The UAB student body consists of 11,028 undergraduates, 4,086 graduate students and 2,429 professional students</p>
<p>29% of UAB freshmen come from Jefferson County.
60% of UAB freshmen come from other Alabama counties,
8.4% come from other states,
1.5% come from other countries.</p>
<p>70% of the entering UAB freshman Class of 2013 are living in campus housing.</p>
<p><a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Alabama_at_Birmingham[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Alabama_at_Birmingham</a></p>
<p>I just did a quick check and nationally, blacks make up 13% of the population. I understand numbers are skewed geographically but UA has just under half its students from OOS.</p>
<p>Things have come a long way in 50 years but it is still a work in progress.</p>
<p>Not sure about fraternities that aren’t evolving…while heritage and customs are good for strength and binding things together over time, segregation should not be one of those practices. Have to wonder about those that join those fraternities…</p>
<p>I hope the OP won’t judge UA on the basis of its fraternities. Despite the strong political presence these organizations have, those involved are the real minority.</p>
<p>I don’t consider 15% low in regards to AA enrollment. It’s at least as high as any other State’s main University with the possible exception of California.</p>
<p>What percentage of AA kids go to college? What percentage of state of Alabama AA kids go to college?</p>
<p>And UAB is in the inner city and most of their students are local and commute to school. That’s not any slight in regards to it’s academics or anything else.</p>
<p>Compare UA to other state flagships, and clearly, UA has a higher percentage of AAs in its student body than most other flagships. UAB is NOT the state flagship and it is also in a predominantly AA city, Birmingham, so that is not surprise. But compare UA to UMichigan, to UCLA, to UGA, to AU, to UF. We are doing fine there thank you.</p>
<p>No, NJ, no California flagship that I know of has as high an enrollment of AAs as UA. Latino is another story, but CA is becoming predominantly non White.</p>
<p>You’re right. I was thinking in terms of all minority students and not just AA. </p>
<p>If we just limit this to enrolled AA students then UA ranks up there with any state flagship percentage wise as you said. </p>
<p>I’m not sure what I posted that was unreasonable and I certainly wasn’t trying to offend you, Parent. I just think in this discussion that UA should be compared to like universities. And IMHO UA & UAB are not similar other than the name they share.</p>
<p>My husband and I saw “The Help” tonight. We also encouraged our son to see the movie. We feel that the movie depicted the culture in the deep south at that time (1960’s) very well. Segregation was part of the culture. The children raised in the early 60’s are now the parents of current college students. </p>
<p>Our children watch us and learn from us. They mimic our behaviors and attitudes. Behaviors toward others are learned. Our country still has a lot of selfish, narrow minded thinkers that are to afraid to do the right thing. </p>
<p>I don’t believe forced segregation is the answer.</p>
<p>The solution to this issue may be simply that as more OOS students attend UA the racial, ethnic, social, and political atmosphere will necessarily change on campus. </p>
<p>The Sororities/Fraternities will be forced to evolve or face declining enrollment as mores are challenged.</p>
<p>Being “GDI” is the solution for most students who do not believe in either the Greek System or the particular beliefs of certain Greek organizations on UA’s campus. Challenging the accepted practices of these organizations becomes the responsibility of each student and faculty member who does not accept these archaic beliefs. By example so shall you lead. </p>
<p>However, I would not put down the values of “all” the Sorority/Fraternity members on campus, I am sure that there are members who are trying/have tried to enact change from inside the system and that there are those members who would be accepting of change. Change does require the cooperation of both the members of the group and outside influences. I believe that the outside influence of a more diverse student population will exact change.</p>
<p>That is not to say that some students will still not “self impose” segregation. I have been to many campuses (some in the Northeast) where students of the same ethnic group stay primarily together for both classes, housing and dining. It is sometimes just a matter of their own comfort zone.</p>
<p>NJbama… i was not offended, i thought i had offended you. My post was not about comparing UA to UAB… i listed the top 3 known schools in the state and showed the demographics. You replied with comments about UAB being a commuter school, not a flagship etc…which was not what i was talking about.</p>
<p>When my son was applying to colleges, UA was on his list, he was accepted with scholarships and would have been proud to go. When i was posting here then, i felt it was ok to do so. When my son chose UAB instead, i feel that this board has been kind enough to allow me to still post and give some perpective on UAB as it does not have its own forum but is part of the U of AL system…i know i dont need permission to post anywhere, but as a courtesy i generally tell people to pm me rather than post on here. </p>
<p>to address what was said about UAB… yes it only has 10% oos students right now…UA was about the same just a few years ago. Yes 30% of its students are from its own county and that county has a 41% black population. 60% of its students are not local but are from alabama. 70% of its freshman class lives on campus. so that is correct about 30% may well go home at night. As you said, that does not reflect on the level of education it provides. However UAB is the school that Princeton review (and i agree these review places and websites etc should be taken with a grain of salt) lists as 11th in its top 371 southern schools for diversity and racial interaction. UA is not on that list… </p>
<p>If 12% (and i dont dispute you) is the national average at state schools, then kudos to UA for achieving that… but if you meet that national average, then imo, you have the next thing to do. If nationally schools with that percentage have integrated their frats/sororities etc…it is time for UA to do so. Standing on old traditions doesnt cut it anymore. Dr Witt has changed what the rest of the country thinks about UA, and wonderful oos students are enjoying incredible educations…i dont think we would want to put “and the southern traditions of segregated frats still exist” on the recruiting publications. </p>
<p>Momof3’s son, shouldnt have been kept out of a fraternitiy because he dared to question a tradition. If we recognize a tradition doesnt make sense its, time to change it. Dr Witt can do it…the fraternities and sororities shouldnt be given a choice…you dont integrate…you dont stay. </p>
<p>And if its happening at other state schools, its time for them to change too.</p>
<p>oops sorry got my review numbers wrong…they are 11th for student happiness but 3rd for diversity in princetons’ top 371 colleges</p>
<p>UAB ranked No. 3 in the Lots of Race/Class Interaction Category, which rates campus social and ethnic diversity and interaction between students of various backgrounds. UAB is the only university in Alabama to score in this category.</p>
<p>[UAB</a> Ranks No. 3 in the Nation for Student Diversity in Princeton Review?s ?Best Colleges?](<a href=“http://main.uab.edu/Sites/MediaRelations/articles/66308/]UAB”>http://main.uab.edu/Sites/MediaRelations/articles/66308/)</p>
<p>My opinion is, as a previous poster has alluded to, that the change needs to come from the gradual pressures applied from outside influences. Those may come from parents of an increasingly more diverse student body, the University via stated goals or policies, and/or from Panhellenic and National Chapter policies that are leading houses nationally to become more diverse. Coming from the Midwest, I will say that both my D and my wife and I noticed that there is a noticeable lack of diversity at UA. Our town has many SE Asian and Indian residents … much higher in number than our African American population actually, and it was quite noticeable to us this lack of color other than Caucasian & African American. As UA becomes more diverse and as more OOS students of many colors and backgrounds begin to attend in higher numbers, there will be no choice but for the houses to begin to allow these students in or face falling membership numbers. I rechartered a chapter of Phi Kappa Theta at my school and we accepted anyone that we thought was cool enough to hang out with. I think generally the kids want to be associated with the houses that are “popular” that have good parties, mixers, do well in intramural activities, etc. The pressures coming from outside that proliferate old prejudices under the guise of tradition is unacceptable. The notion that a Fraternity would not admit an African American for fear that their house might lose some mixers with sororities is nothing short of abominable. Bringing a couple hundred kids together socially at a party does NOT mean that 2 people of opposite races are going to hook up any more than if those 2 people meet via interaction elsewhere on campus in a club or academic class or activity. Hopefully over time some of these historical barriers to entry, made back in the way-back days to keep certain geographic families and social standing together in a social environment (with the hope that they might meet and marry) will end as the UA not only grows under Dr. Witt’s plan, but also grows more rounded and diverse student population.</p>
<p>*no California flagship that I know of has as high an enrollment of AAs as UA. Latino is another story, but CA is becoming predominantly non White. *</p>
<p>the better Calif UCs do not represent the state in URM numbers…even when they try to “move the numbers” by lessening the importance of test scores, and leaning heavily towards GPA. </p>
<p>Here’s Cal’s numbers</p>
<p><1% American Indian or Alaska Native
34% Asian
3% Black or African American
16% Hispanic/Latino
<1% Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander
29% White
6% Two or more races
6% Non-Resident Alien</p>
<p>State Demographics</p>
<p>57.6% White (40.1% Non-Hispanic White)
37.6% are Hispanic or Latino
13.0% Asian (3.4% Chinese, 3.2% Filipino, 1.6% Vietnamese, 1.4% Indian, 1.2% Korean, 0.7% Japanese, 0.2% Hmong, 0.2% Cambodian, 0.2% Laotian, 0.1% Thai, 0.1% Pakistani)
6.2% Black or African American
1.0% Native American
4.9% Multiracial (1.3% White and “Some Other Race”, 1.2% White and Asian, 0.6% White and Native American, 0.5% White and Black, 1.3% Other)
0.4% Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander (0.1% Samoan, 0.1% Guamanian or Chamorro, 0.1% Native Hawaiian, 0.2% “Other Pacific Islander”)</p>
<p>As for Greeks being divided, that’s unfortunately common on most campuses. I have nieces and nephews at various campuses across this country and their Greek pics on their Facebook pages are not “integrated”.</p>
<p>My son’s GF’s sorority at UAB doesn’t have any Black kids either…so what’s UAB’s president doing about that?</p>
<p>Is there a chance that the low percentage of AA at UA is influenced by the fact that Alabama has 9 historically black colleges and universities? That seems like a large number for the state</p>
<p>Yes…and the fact that the state has a high number of colleges (for the population) is another reason. It’s easier and more affordable for many kids (black or white) to commute to a local college.</p>
<p>*I don’t buy the self segregation excuse. There are thousands of AAs on campus and if the greeks would make it a priority they could become integrated in a relatively short time. *</p>
<p>well, the self-segregation is not an “excuse,” it is a fact. I live in an upscale neighborhood that is about 25-30 Black. These AA families have a proud heritage of belonging to certain Black Greeks and they want their children to join their houses. Their cars all have their Greek letters on them…this is what they expect their kids to do. </p>
<p>these families don’t dislike Whites…it’s not about that. They have traditions as well…and they want their kids in Black Greek Houses. </p>
<p>That said, I do think that the White houses should integrate because there are many Black or “mixed” kids who have not been raised in the Black Community and they feel house-less. My friend’s D is at another university. This D has a White mom and a Black dad, but she has been raised only in the White community. Her dad is a retired high ranking officer in the military. This D wanted to join a White sorority at her school, but didn’t even try because she thought she wouldn’t get a bid. </p>
<p>about UAB… yes it only has 10% oos students right now…UA was about the same just a few years ago</p>
<p>???</p>
<p>A few years ago? </p>
<p>In 2000 (which is more than a few years ago), Bama enrolled 25% of OOS Frosh. </p>
<p>In 1993 (a LONG time ago), Bama enrolled 38% OOS Frosh. The percent of OOS actually went down for a bit (as demonstrated in 2000) when there was a push to enroll more instate kids. </p>
<p>You’d probaby have to go way back to find Bama with numbers of 10% OOS…waaay back.</p>
<p>To echo what others are saying…you won’t get into one of the old row frats so just hang that notion up. You may have a shot at others. </p>
<p>Do you know what fraternity you want to join? Why? What do you hope to gain from joining a fraternity?</p>
<p>mom2ck… as this was a topic brought up this weekend, and i have no interest in frats/sororities etc i have no hard data re what Dean Garrison is doing or not doing. I do know that my son has friends in at least 2 of the fraternities at uab (there are only 5 i think), both of which are intergrated…beyond that i know nothing about greek life at uab. But if they are in fact segregated then Garrison should be doing something…same as above for ua. Its a very simple premise to me…no segregation should be tolerated.</p>
<p>and if there was a like button, i would “like” robot and dad2IL posts!</p>
<p>I would like to understand how a student was given a bid, accepted such bid and was then blackballed. Don’t they have to live up to their bid commitments?</p>
<p>I understand that change comes hard in the South, traditions are traditions etc., but there is no excuse for the fact that this ridiculousness is condoned in groups that represent the school.
Self-imposed segregation? Maybe, but coming from the same area as DadIL^, I certainly do NOT see it here, my son at UA does not experience it in his circle of friends. I see it as an easy excuse for discrimination, plain and simple.
I look forward to the day when enough students see that the “tradition” is foolish, GDIs continue to rise in numbers because the concept of being buying into an “instant” group of homogenous best friends for life is for sheep, and the frats have to change their ways to get the numbers they need.
But then that’s just me, I understand not all may agree.</p>
<p>For a change to happen, then the university should do the following…</p>
<p>1) Increase the number of bids that each house can offer by X amount which must be given to AA students or they are lost. Each year, that X number will likely be increased.</p>
<p>2) Change the land lease laws…those houses who integrate will continue to enjoy the $1 per year lease. Those who don’t, will have to pay $12k per year for their lease (or some other painful amount).</p>
<p>3) Institute some kind of active recruitment of Aa members…even if it means the university needs to cough up some bucks to make this happen.</p>
<p>4) Involve the Black Greeks into this integration policy so that those AA members that do choose to integrate will not experience any kind of harassment for joining a traditionally White house. </p>
<p>Those who don’t want to integrate won’t have to, but they will no longer enjoy the cheap land lease.</p>
<p>* I do know that my son has friends in at least 2 of the fraternities at uab (there are only 5 i think), both of which are intergrated…*</p>
<p>If they are integrated, then they are barely integrated because my son’s GF’s UAB Swap Pics on her Facebook page do not show any black faces.</p>