<p>Article in Oct. 11 edition of NY Times addresses many of the threads started in the parent forum.
Have</a> College Freshmen Changed? - Room for Debate - NYTimes.com
" Are social, academic and financial pressures on freshmen becoming more intense? Have freshmen changed? Does the fact that many students are used to "helicopter" parents monitoring and guiding all of their activities affect the transition to college?"</p>
<p>The availability of multiple methods of instant communication has greatly affected all our lives, including the lives of college students. One side effect may be a decrease in independence – for all of us.</p>
<p>I also think parents and parenting norms have changed. Thinking back to my parents, they were relatively uninvolved–but that was more the norm back then. Perhaps my generation’s hovering is a reaction to the way we were parented. And maybe our grandkids will be free from hovering parents in their time.</p>
<p>I think fewer parents are instructing/teaching/pushing/guiding their children toward the idea of adulthood and independence at a young age. I am amazed at the number of 25 yr olds, often times a college grad, still living with mommy and daddy and not yet living like an adult. Or at least, not a self supporting adult.
Not commenting if I think its good or bad, just saying I think it is different than yrs ago.</p>
<p>I agree with younghoss. I and my friends couldn’t wait to move out. All my Ds’ friends seem to be planning to move back home after school to save money as they get started working.</p>
<p>I friend recently related that when she dropped off her sophomore D at college for the fall semester and helped her set up her first apt, they had a conversation that was along the lines of “Dad and I paid for college and are helping set up this apt, you need to be making decisions that will allow you to graduate ready to become independent”. </p>
<p>She reports D (a good kid who does work every summer and has good grades) was shocked! “you and Daddy won’t be helping me anymore???” This from a young adult in a family with 3 younger siblings the parents will be putting through school as she launches into adulthood.</p>
<p>I think most kids today think their parents will help out if they need anything. I think much of this attitude comes from us because we had parents who once we graduated, treated us like adults. I never went to my parents after graduation to ask for anything. I just remember my parents saying that we sent you to college and now you support yourself. Many of us remember the tough post grad years, and good or bad, we don’t want to see our kids feel that they can’t come to us.</p>
<p>Fascinating that your friend’s D got to be a soph in college before this conversation occurred! My kids have known since about middle school that they will get 4 years of support in college from me (no 5 year plan, anything beyond 4 years is on their dime), and they need to be able to support themselves once they graduate. They have also known since middle school what portion of their college expenses they need to cover (spending money and books in our family, and living expenses if they choose to take any internships where they are not living at home). </p>
<p>Seems like this conversation ought to happen at a minimum when starting the college search. How can a kid make a rational choice of majors, for example, if they are vague on when they have to start supporting themselves?</p>
<p>I think it is definitely different now, but in my personal experience it has ALL to do with economics.</p>
<p>My grandparents provided room & board for my parents until each was out of high school. By 15 or 16 my parents were financially responsible for all clothes, cars, etc.</p>
<p>My parents wanted me to have a beter and easier life. They saved and were able to provide for my college. I had friends whose parents weren’t as well off and some friends paid for their own college. Today, I can’t imagine any teen in my town able to pay for 4-yr full time college on their own. The costs are 20 times higher! </p>
<p>My kids have lived thru our ups & downs of jobs. While my parents generation retired from the same companies they began work for at 17 or 18, my generation has not had that security. You can be sure I’ve instilled a fear in my kids that job loss is real. </p>
<p>Combine all my experience and fears which I project, I wouldn’t be surprised if my kids would consider it irresponsible to get an apartment out of college. </p>
<p>Things move faster for this generation, but not necessarily in a forward motion.</p>
<p>My own interpretation of longhaul’s post 9, but what is described sounds to me (mostly)like standard of living rather than what I’d call economics. It’s not just having enough money or not. It’s about having a good enough lifestyle on their own as an adult compared to what they have with mommy and daddy.</p>
<p>The “kid” that is a college grad in Longhaul’s example might be choosing to come to parents’ home rather than fully becoming an adult so he can save up to have a better standard of living when the day comes that he moves out and fully becomes an adult.
That is different than simply not being able to afford that first apartment.
Here again, I’m not saying good/bad for others, only saying some college grads and their parents now prefer to give the child more help, even beyond the college graduation, than in yrs past, so that when the child fully becomes an adult (at 25? 30?) he instantly starts out better. Some see that as a better plan. Others see preparing the child for adulthood, and young adult learning experiences sooner is a better plan.</p>
<p>Yes, I guess most of it is a standard of living.</p>
<p>When I came out of college, cable, mobile phone, web access and health care weren’t part of my budget. We just simply didn’t have those things. Or in the case of health care, didn’t have to account for paying premiums.</p>
<p>And cell phone, cable, internet access, and healthcare are all pretty much standard/required for today’s world. Healthcare costs are a much higher percentage of today’s family budget than in decades past.</p>
<p>I also agree that cell phones, internet, etc have made this a much more interconnected world - all of us are probably more closely tied to relatives who live far away than previous generations. Why wouldn’t we also be more closely tied to our kids at college?
Of course there is the potential for that to go overboard, and kids need to learn to make their own decisions and live with the consequences. But if they want to ask for advice, or share good news or bad, why shouldn’t they be able to? </p>
<p>I think the bottom line is this: if the technology had existed in previous generations (cell phones, internet), then I think the previous generations would have been much more connected to one another. When there was only one pay phone on a hallway, interactions with parents from college were naturally limited. One can argue whether more connectedness is better or worse, but I don’t doubt that if the ability to communicate easily had existed in previous decades, people would have used it.</p>
<p>As for kids moving back home, in previous generations kids never left their hometown. Multiple generations of families lived within a few miles of each other. Now people move all over the country. Johnny may live with mom and dad for a couple years after college, but 10 years later he may easily be living 1000+ miles away.</p>
<p>Despite easy access to internet and cell phone, my D doesn’t seem to feel the desire to use these media to contact dear old mom and dad very often. I just gave her the I-need-to-hear-from-you-once-a-week lecture! My friend’s daughter at the same school also does not contact her parents with any frequency. Indeed there are threads on CC written by parents lamenting the lack of contact with their children, while other folks are happy to report very regular communication or are unhappy about too many calls. So I guess I’d say that if the child has the need or predisposition to reach out and touch base, he’ll do that in whatever way is available. If he doesn’t, the ease of communication won’t make that much difference. When feeling a little homesick at college, I recall writing letters to my sister and high school friends–a task more time-consuming than sending a text message. Yet I did it.</p>
<p>That said, I don’t recall any of my high school friends leaving their original college in order to attend school closer to home. I do hear those stories frequently now. But mightn’t that be due to a greater incidence of kids going out of state or far away to school? My mom insisted I only apply to schools within an hour’s drive from home, and most of my friends also stayed within 3 hours of home. I was able to come home on a weekend if I wanted or needed (though I seldom did), but my own D is 3,000 miles from home and can’t. So maybe that fact is making it seem that many kids are having trouble living on their own at college when it really isn’t worse.</p>
<p>I like to think that my D loves her mom and Dad and that taking 30 seconds to send a text maybe even once a day b/c she is 3000 miles away and knows we worry (especially me, I am famous for worrying needlessly, actually) isn’t anything other than a sign of respect. I also am glad I can support her in all she chooses to do and that she knows I and her mom are always there for her. Now as for growing up, that is something we discuss frequently–she has to know how to care for herself, and all the reasons that is so important, and I think she does. Now if I can give her things I never had myself growing up or maybe even things some of ther friends dont have, why pretend I can’t? To the extent she has grown up in a family with more disposable cash that I did, that’s her good fortune. Her welfare is my number one concern and I try my best to make sure she understands how important education is for ordinary folks, like us. And that she will be one her own one day, as we all are. But for now, if I can make her life easier, maybe get a tutor if a class proves to be harder that she thought, I’m there. She has always done her best and as a member of an upper middle class family she gets her piece of the pie. And I am thankful I can serve it up.</p>
<p>I don’t know what I think. My oldest just “gave up” cable because it was costing he and his roommate too much money. He’s only a senior in college but we don’t give him extra money for cable or internet only rent, food and cell phone. I guess it’s a matter of kids prioritizing what is important to them…living independently within whatever budget they are able to muster or coming home. We’ve stressed that we don’t expect them to come home hoping that they will attempt to live on their own before “calling” home. Our friends are going through that with their recently graduated offspring who wants nothing more than to live in NYC. Lots of “giving” up for a while has to go on…</p>
<p>I think they’ve changed in that they are voicing their opinion on their school preferences and parents, in turn, are more accommodating then they were in the past when it was expected their child would do what the parents said because they were paying. Especially in ‘alumni’ families.</p>
<p>Thus, students have more power and parents have more risk. Not necessarily a good combination. I believe there is a definite expectation and pressure to send your child away if they want to go. Not much emphasis is placed on whether or not the parents believe they are actually ready to do so. Thus, we have more kids having adjustment issues. </p>
<p>This is not to blame the parents. Societal and peer pressure on students to go ‘away’ is huge. Thus, even if they might not feel they are ready, they are not going to admit it lest they lose their sense of independence, disappoint their parents or friends, or lose scholarship money.</p>
<p>I am all for letting my son fail and learn life lessons but with the expense of college and the subsequent ‘student loan culture’ it’s a lesson that could cost us, or him, for decades.</p>
<p>Nope - it’s economics. Try getting an apartment in the Northeast or California near any city. Then add car payment and auto and health insurance. A lot of 20 somethings are living with their parents because to go out on their own would mean moving a hundred miles away - where there are no jobs. A BA doesn’t get you $65K per anum.</p>
<p>Maybe Obama ought to cut taxes for twenty somethings to help them budget moving out of their parents homes.</p>
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<p>I don’t think it’s a matter of having to pretend. I don’t just “give” my kids things even though I can afford it because it doesn’t really teach them a lot of life lessons necessary for being an adult. Delayed gratification for one. If I just bought my kid a new cell phone every time she wanted one… what does she learn from that? How does that help her critically review the cost/benefit of such a purpose? </p>
<p>I consider my job as a parent is to get my kid to be a fully functional and responsible adult. An adult is not typically subsidized by their parents. I even know of plenty of kids with trusts who do not see even one distribution until they are 25-30. And they have it pretty darn good. We ask that they work in the summer and save up their cash to pay for their social lives. We cover everything else, including books. (As point of reference, my deal in college was 100 bucks a month for everything and I had to pay for my books which meant I might have not bought a few!)</p>
<p>Being able to go to your parents when you’re really needing something is one thing, as is buying your daughter tickets to a concert because you know she would love it. But getting her a BMW just because YOU can afford it is kind of setting the bar pretty high for what she will realistically be able to afford on a young college graduates salary.</p>
<p>This country is evolving into a bunch of folks who have no ability to delay their gratification of things. It is why people bought homes they couldn’t afford, and are in more debt than any other generation. It also truly changes one’s ethics if their only guiding light is “what’s in it for me.” </p>
<p>Neighbors kid graduated college, took a full 18 months to finally get a job where he lived at home, paid no rent or any bills (not even his cell). Was laid off and took the summer and now the fall to basically spend all the money saved traveling all over the place. He is now home. No job, no prospects and now, absolutely no savings. Living off mom and dad. Do we NOT see a problem here?</p>
<p>Point of reference: I graduated in 1983. My first job earned me $14,000 a year. I had no college debt. Some of the problem is that “kids today” want to live the lifestyle of their parents without the hard work and toil of earning it themselves. OR (or and) their parents failed to save for college or whatever and they are deeply in debt with huge payments due. I agree that having a kid live at home might be a necessary reality, but should they do so without paying any rent? No Insurance? etc?</p>