<p>
[quote]
HAMILTON, N.Y. --They're called "helicopter parents," for their habit of hovering -- hyper-involved -- over their children's lives. Here at Colgate University, as elsewhere, they have become increasingly bold in recent years, telephoning administrators to complain about their children's housing assignments, roommates and grades.
Recently, one parent demanded to know what Colgate planned to do about the sub-par plumbing her daughter encountered on a study-abroad trip to China.
"That's just part of how this generation has been raised," said Mark Thompson, head of Colgate's counseling services. "You add a $40,000 price tag for a school like Colgate, and you have high expectations for what you get."
<p>
[quote]
Recently, one parent demanded to know what Colgate planned to do about the sub-par plumbing her daughter encountered on a study-abroad trip to China.
[/quote]
Wait til that kid tries a study-abroad trip to France.</p>
<p>Things like this make me really glad I get to stick this generation with my SS bills and national debt. It's really not the kids fault though. They feel life is an entitlement.</p>
<p>Driver:
Yes, indeed. I well remember arriving in a picturesque village in Normandy one summer weekend at dusk. When we asked about the toilet, we were told :"Allez dans les choux." We dutifully "watered" the cabbages. The next day, we retreated to a modern villa owned by a friend of my brother where we took turn taking a proper shower and using a modern toilet.</p>
<p>I have mixed feelings abouat this - first, things have to change much earlier (high school, grade school) or the students arriving won't have adequate tools or experience to be without parents successfully - my kids are much less sophisticated about life than I was at their age. Second, colleges have given up a ton of accountability over the past 30 yeras. They don't have to pay for dorm mothers or fathers, don't have to monitor very much what is happening in dorms, and clearly, in frats/sororoties, and they don't always have accountability for what is avaialble for courses, whether or not classes are filled, and the quality or nature of advising and support. $40k is a ton of money and frankly, if colleges were more accountable for the ultimate product, I would agree with the article above. It's too easy to say give me your $40k - bye bye. Nice out, if you ask me. OTOH, I totally agree with parents not interfering in day to day issues, learning to be resilient and self-reliant.</p>
<p>S1 just got a call from a friend who just started at a midwestern college, to find out that her roommate "hates" people involved in anything smacking of conservatism and is making life miserable for this friend cause she is in ROTC. I know that the temptation to get involved will be great for her parents, but it was my S's advice to her that she should try to work it out with the roomie, and if it is not possible, she should just rise above it and stay away from her, ie. just sleep in the room and be elsewhere all the rest of the time. I think kids at this point usually really WANT to work things out without parental help if they can.</p>
<p>I, too, have mixed feelings. While I'm confident that the day-to-day issues (class mix-ups, schedules, registration, assignments, majors, roommate issues can be easily handled by my D + her residential-college advisor + any academic advisors), on bigger issues I would have no hesitation or apology about getting involved. I would call a "bigger issue" something like having been promised substance-free housing, but arriving to find otherwise. Or ditto for a single-sex floor or dorm, but finding mixed accommodations. On these issues I think one needs a more even playing field than a 17 or 18-yr old duking it out with a senior administrator. Once the student is there alone, once he/she is "captive," once they have your $$, there's little motivation to accommodate a relatively powerless undergrad, unless an adult is there to remind them about breach of contract.</p>
<p>If different "big issues" arise during the school yr -- such as violations within a substance-free dorm, etc. -- I would definitely assume my D would go through all the grievance procedures on her own, & I would expect her to. However, should there be no satisfaction, & should the violations continue to interfere signficantly with her ability to complete her assignments or get enough sleep, I would then get involved as well.</p>
Why is that? I am not trying to challenge you - its just that I feel that my kids have always been far more sophisticated than I was at the same age. Maybe its a lifestyle thing - I was raised in a 2-parent household with a stay-at-home mom - my kids have always had to fend for themselves more - but I also feel that my kids have been exposed to much more information about real world concerns via tv & the internet, and modern technology - specifically the cell phone - means that my kids have been granted more freedom and responsibility simply because they are always "connected". </p>
<p>So I don't quite get the reason why kids today would be less sophisticated or more sheltered - if there is a reason other than the effects of helicoptering.</p>
<p>calmom - that is easy - they have lived in suburbia. My friends and I grew up with street smarts - part of life in our area - I knew more about protecting and managing myself, was exposed to many "elements" as my Dad used to call them, and had more experience making my own decisions and way through life, than my kids have been required to simply because of environment. My kids have had to fend more for themselves than many of their friends because I work and just finished my doctorate as well - they know how to do laundry, cook, clean up after themselves, etc - but I am thinking more about street smarts. As you mention, though, my kids have certainly been exposed to a great deal more re: TV but my comment was directed more toward lack of sophistication re: avoiding difficulties, figuring out how to get things dones, reading people and watching out for problems/situations......although I don't think I am articulating this that well......! I agree with what FrenchBaroque has written - my less than street smart 17-l8yo would likely just accept whatever administration said, even if their assessment was misguided. Believe me, I don't want to be helicoptering but I don't like the attitude that we should not question the colleges at all. Education seems to be one of those areas where accountability is not measured or challenged very much.....don't know why</p>
<p>WOW--this sure makes me wonder when these kids will be on their own in life - ?? When they become parents themselves - ooo nooo wait - when they become grand parents!!! Geepers - this generation - and he next ones to come need to learn how to figure things out and how to become responsible adults - what i see in above posts is a far cry from letting our next generation grow up - Parents really do need to back off - some of what is proposed on this post are way out of line!! Let them grow up and manage their lives - even their college lives - no wonder colleges are going to start making helicopter parents land off campus!!</p>
<p><strong><em>Second, colleges have given up a ton of accountability over the past 30 yeras. They don't have to pay for dorm mothers or fathers, don't have to monitor very much what is happening in dorms, and clearly, in frats/sororoties, and they don't always have accountability for what is avaialble for courses, whether or not classes are filled, and the quality or nature of advising and support.</em></strong>*</p>
<p>In response to the above - Most schools DO have paid house parents int he dorms - they are called ''RA's'' tho there are some schools that still do have housemoms in the frats/sors - if school owned buildings - which most are not- monitoring dorm students - in an environment where they are now expected to be ''adults'' - and who are supposed to follow the 'student regulations' - frats/sors are mostly NOT owned/managed by the school - but there are some exceptions to that - accountability for courses - that info is usually pretty easy to find out - and quality/nature of advising - again that is not that difficult to figure out either - but the student needs to manage all of these issues - and the parent needs to support their student = NOT fix everything for them - IMHO! students need to be accountable for themselves when they enter a facility of higher education - you expect the schools to be accountable - they expect their students to be accountable as well.</p>
<p>Are these parents going to intervene when these students step into the job frenzy?? I sure hope not - but that would not surprise me in some respects when parents continue to hover right over junior - let them breath - let them learn - let them experience - let them grow - let them think and reason on their own.</p>
<p>JeepMom, I think you have perhaps misunderstood - I do not expect to be involved in my son's daily managing of his life and I certainly expect my son to be accountable but I also expect the school to have some idea what is going on in their dorms and frats - and to offer some guidance about that. RAs are typically sophmores - not exactly seasoned adults - I think it's a big jump from home to college - structure to no structure. All I am saying is that Colleges can't ignore their accoutability to families who trust the school to make sure that their kids don't fall through the cracks or go off the deep end, not to mention, get the education parents think they are paying for. What about the culture of alcohol (drinking games, drinking to pass out, etc) that has evolved on college campuses - the many deaths due to alcohol poisoning, etc. You can say the kids aren't being responsible (and you would be right) but schools have to share some accountability for enabling or allowing the practice to continue on campus. What about not providing adequate faculty for courses, or students not being able to get into courses that they need repeatedly, or cutting services, not repairing things, whatever, should the school be accountable to parents in these cases? What accountability can we expect from the colleges we pay for is basically what I am asking. In medicine, we are accountable to patients, families, insurers and regulatory agencies for our procedures and our outcomes......and in academia, college administrators and faculty are accountable to whom and for what...... do they have any accountability to parents who are paying the bills? These are just rhetorical questions - I happen to think that educational institutions should have more accountability but not at the level you are thinking about.</p>
<p>Rileydog - thanks for explaining, it makes more sense to me. The answer is just that YOU were more savvy than I was - I guess it has lot more to do with urban/suburban issues than generational.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Things like this make me really glad I get to stick this generation with my SS bills and national debt. It's really not the kids fault though. They feel life is an entitlement.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There's a great deal of truth in Barrons' comments. Today's students have gotten used to having their own rooms and are unused to having roommates. Some have had their own bathrooms and are worried (as are their parents) about having to share. Our darlings come to college with down mattress toppers, 250-thread count bedsheets, microwaves, minifridges, etc... then they want to study abroad to encounter the "natives" in their natural habitat, be it in Paris or Beijing, but are unprepared to live like them.
It's not totally new; my college roommate went to South America in the Peace Corps in the early 70s and freaked out over the lack of running water and hot showers. But the level of luxury a large proportion of today's students has gotten used to is new.
Calmom said that the issue may be more urban/suburban than generational. But isn't this generation of students more likely to have grown up in suburbs than past generations? Our generation fled cities for the safety of suburbs, to get our kids into good schools, to avoid racial conflicts, etc... I keep reading about empty nesters returning to cities now their kids are grown.
As Rileydog suggested, our kids have been exposed to more knowledge, but much of it is virtual, through TV rather than in real life; and it is not the same as savvy or street smarts, the kind that enables someone to talk his/her way into a class or out of a tight spot. College ought to be a good place to learn such skills if they are not already there, but the price tag makes it difficult for parents to settle for less than the best "product."
Meanwhile, colleges send out mixed messages. They want parents to be involved, they claim, and at the same time they tell them to stop hovering. hmmm....
Just a few thoughts.</p>
<p>All this helicoptering discussion is very interesting...my own thoughts come down to two "biggies": one: college is as much about learning to live independently and make responsible lifestyle (including budget) decisions as it is about academics. From this perspective, I agree (and "practice") that hands-off, it's-up-to-my-S parenting is the right approach. </p>
<p>However, point two sets up some tension with that: It's MY $43,000 each year, and I'm a person who pretty much insists on getting what I pay for. If and when these colleges seek their funding from the kids (new adults) themselves, then turning the kids loose to deal with issues where the schools are not delivering what we're paying for makes more sense. But as far as I can tell, most schools--and certainly my S's (which is awesome, I have NO complaints)--look to parents for payment. It's inconsisent and unacceptable, to me, to expect huge EFCs from parents and then tell parents to butt out when the school fails to deliver what those EFCs are paying for...</p>
<p>Makes me happy that my S's school is in fact delivering--in spades; I couldn't be more pleased!...saves me having to resolve the conflicts between my points/beliefs numbers one and two!</p>
<p>Overanxious -- the way I look at it, the person who owes me my money's worth is my KID, not the college. OK, the college owes something - but not a perfect, hassle free environment. If the college falls short, I expect the kid that I am subsidizing to be smart enough to be a good advocate for my investment -- that is, the kid can go in and pound the table about being promised classes with full professors, or being able to get classes in his major, or whatever else is dismaying him. </p>
<p>I mean, I essentially am the Calmom Scholarship fund, and to be eligible for my scholarship, you have to be (a) my offspring, (b) reasonably polite when speaking to me, (c) maintain a GPA high enough to stay off of academic probation, and (d) make satisfactory progress as a full-time student. The Calmom Scholarship runs out after 4 years; it also runs out if not used up within 5 years. But the person who is responsible for making the Calmom Scholarship work is the recipient -- and I am not going to invest that money in a kid who is not emotionally ready or mature enough to handle the demands of attending college away from home. I mean, that's why we have community college. </p>
<p>If the fact that we as parents are paying more means that we think we can contribute to that overall sense of "entitlement" -- then I think we're on the wrong track. I mean, it seems that the parents are now the ones feeling "entitled" - they feel a sense of ownership and a right to manage their investment because they've spent so much money. But then maybe the parents end up getting their money's worth, while the kids end up being shortchanged in a way -- sure, the kid got the "education" that mom and dad wanted and paid for, what happens to this book-smart but not streetwise kid with the high-priced diploma when he goes to work for Donald Trump? I mean, the best jobs are going to go to the kids who are proactive, take initiative, and have terrific communication and self-advocacy skills. Unless, of course, these hovering parents plan also to arrange their kid's internships and first out-of-college jobs through their own connections -- which I suppose many of the wealthy and well-established do. </p>
<p>I honestly don't know how much of this "helicopter" thing is myth, and how much is reality. The papers do put a spin on thing, and you can always come up with anecdotes. I mean, even back in my day I had peers in college with overbearing parents, though they were the exception - not the norm. But then again -- if the colleges see this as enough of a problem that they think they need to start giving parental letting-go lessons, maybe there is something there.</p>
<p>coincidentally we know a girl who graduated from Colgate- who had her dad call up the dean when there were any problems and who called her mom every night to check in.
Perhaps Colgate attracts more students who want more support from older adults?</p>
<p>EK4, I doubt it's the students at Colgate who want more support from adults. </p>
<p>After all, the term is helicopter parents not helicopter rescue net students. Reread the recent thread of us parents who were having a hard time saying good bye to our kids, or the thread about dropping them off, going to Walmart for shelves etc, or even the thread about nagging to get them to fill out their apps. I think it's us the article is talking about. When I went off to college, I got a hug after my dad helped me load the car. And when I had problems with my University's Administration in the 60s.....we marched, sat in and then shut the place down for a week!</p>
<p>Question is, is our current involvement due to wanting to make the experience perfect for our kids or, now returning to campus after 30 -40 years do we just miss it too damn much to let go? </p>
<p>So Dean Chopp wants the students themselves to become more responsible? I wonder if she would like a return to those days?</p>
<p>LOL! Ah, the good ol' days of marching and occupying buildings over "non-negotiable" demands. One of my college roommates occupied a building. After the first night there, she came back to drag her mattress to the occupied building to prepare for the long haul. We did not know about down toppers or eggcrate mattresses, or thread count, so she made do with the bare mattress.
When students occupied University Hall at Harvard in 1969, one of the deans was pushed down the stairs and suffered a stroke.<br>
I'm sure Dean Chopp does not want this kind of assertiveness in the student body:(</p>
<p>mhc-
I agree- I doubt schools want protests and sit-ins. And instead of burning bras or draft cards, what should they burn ? What is the symbol of the "establishment" these days? I believe the reason I can't think of something is that the "symbol" of this generations' "establishment" is intangible. Its wireless, its invisible, its elusive. Its hands-off. While we are all easily connected with cellphones and the internet, there is still this invisible barrier, this air of detachment. The extra layer of insulation that allows for indirect comunication. Call a company and get caught in a morass of automated voicemails. The human connection is missing. I think that is what I am having trouble with. </p>
<p>I have found my s's school very open, welcoming, inviting. And I haven't had any need to stick my nose in. But I agree with Rileydog-- they can't have it both ways. I would resent it if I was told "give us your money and your kids-- now go away and leave us alone". Bad customer service. Bad bad bad. We are, in part, the customers. It is not just our kids. As Rileydog said, we pay the bills. We shouldn't be expected to merely have blind faith. If Colgate used to give out contact numbers, they were doing something right. If they got inundated with calls--- maybe there is a problem on the part of the SCHOOL, not the parents. Wasn't it Colgate who had the problem with the speaker from Colorado last year? Maybe they are demonstrating their problem with judgement and decision-making. To push the parents further away, or to potentially cause resentment is stupid. Maybe their sense of entitlement will be followed by a drop in their applications. Then they'd change their tune. They should explore alternative ways of facilitating communication-- not just tell people to stop calling. They want parents to cut the cord--- the telephone cord. </p>
<p>Don't get me wrong-- I don't think parents should jump in and handle everything for their kids. But to give parents the message that a school administration is unapproachable is just an accident waiting to happen. This will turn burners up-- not make the problem, or the parents go away.</p>