HELP! Can't persuade parents that Berkeley > Irvine!

<p>One of my good friends, a prospective English major, is having a HUGE problem. She got accepted into UC Berkeley, which is by far her top choice, but her parents would prefer that she goes to UC Irvine for the following reasons:</p>

<li>Berkeley is too far (we are in Orange County, CA)</li>
<li>The environment there is too stressful</li>
<li>The academics are too challenging</li>
<li>It’s more expensive (her parents want her to commute after 2 years of dorm life)</li>
<li>It’s harder to get good grades and get into a good grad school from Berkeley than Irvine</li>
</ol>

<p>Do you guys have any advice on how to persuade her parents that Berkeley is the right place for her? Any help is much appreciated!</p>

<p>-Berkeley has thee number 1 English department.
-Chances are the monetary benefits from a Berkeley degree will be more that the extra costs
-The fact that is more challenging will make you work harder and make you think harder (more self growth)
-Not necessarily stressful and the stress experienced will be worth it
-It is probably tougher to get good grades but this does not necessarily make it tougher to get into grad school. Grad schools know it is harder and more importantly, the more challenging work will allow your friend to do better on entrance exams (ie GRES, LSATS, etc) [and become a better thinker]</p>

<p>Thanks cnat, EXCELLENT responses, will go a long way towards persuading her parents. Does anyone have anything else to add? Or also possibly some references to include for good measure? Again, very appreciated!</p>

<p>She is obviously not asian.
Elliot, did you happen to go to Blandford Elementary School in grade 4?</p>

<p>SHE IS ASIAN! And no, I did not</p>

<p>My parents didn't even know what Irvine was until I got a letter in the mail saying I was accepted there lol</p>

<p>I didn't even apply to Irvine, but I thought I did and sent them my FAFSA haha. Then they sent me a letter saying that the information on my FAFSA didn't match the info on my application. Only a month or two later did I realize that it's because they HAD no application to compare it to. Hehe...</p>

<p>I've always felt that a key part of the undergrad experience is learning from one's fellow students - not just in class, but during all the hours of the day you'll be interacting with them in the dorm, ECs, etc.</p>

<p>Just because a school is more selective doesn't mean it's better, but it does guarantee a peer group with stronger credentials and, depending on the admissions criteria, more significant accomplishments outside the classroom.</p>

<p>If you are looking for arguments to justify Berkeley, I'd tend to give Berkeley points for a stronger peer group. (That's not to say I'd always recommend Berkeley over Irvine for every student situation... I'm just providing ammo for the OP's request. :))</p>

<p>From the points you listed..... the parents may have totally legitimate concerns over your gilr friend's maturity, academic readiness, tenacity....etc. </p>

<p>Finance is a big deal for many parents these days. Children should not break parent's bank because they "WANT TO" ...</p>

<p>I am sending my D to UCI from NorCal...between now and Sept..I will have to make 3 trips to Irvine and it will cost plenty of money between hotel, gas, .... and I have yet to count the family visits during Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year.........</p>

<p>imdad, how much of a financial difference would there be between living 30 minutes away (UCI) and living 5 hours away (Berkeley)?</p>

<ol>
<li>Berkeley is too far (we are in Orange County, CA)</li>
<li><p>You can fly between Oakland (OAK) and Orange County (SNA) for about $100 on Southwest. I suspect their objection to distance is not the cost, but because they don't want her to go too far away and not visit them.</p></li>
<li><p>The environment there is too stressful</p></li>
<li><p>The academics are too challenging</p></li>
<li><p>This will be reflected in grad school admissions and getting a job/internship.</p></li>
<li><p>It's more expensive (her parents want her to commute after 2 years of dorm life)</p></li>
<li><p>Financial aid gives you less money if you live at home. Other than that, I guess some parents just don't place a financial priority on education. Most Asian parents are completely the opposite. Also, the hassle of commuting back and forth will be stressful and less conducive to studying.</p></li>
<li><p>It's harder to get good grades and get into a good grad school from Berkeley than Irvine</p></li>
<li><p>Complete bulls---. If you're aiming for the top grad schools, you'd need close to a 4.0 from UCI, while a 3.7+ from Berkeley would be very competitive.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>
[QUOTE]

  1. Berkeley is too far (we are in Orange County, CA)

[/QUOTE]

Whoever said distance is a bad thing? Your friend has to become independent at some point. Besides, it's plenty closer than the east coast, and it's not like they won't visit during holidays.</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]

  1. The environment there is too stressful

[/QUOTE]

Berkeley isn't nearly as cutthroat as people say. Most of the students there are helpful and you are always welcome to meet with your professors after hours.</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]

  1. The academics are too challenging

[/QUOTE]

This is a legitimate concern. Ultimately, it's the kid's decision though. If they are prepared to work hard and sacrifice their free time, they should be completely fine. </p>

<p>
[QUOTE]

  1. It's more expensive (her parents want her to commute after 2 years of dorm life)

[/QUOTE]

I doubt your friend will want to live at home at age 21, so the costs will probably be similar.</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]

  1. It's harder to get good grades and get into a good grad school from Berkeley than Irvine

[/QUOTE]

This is falacious logic. All med schools know how much more challenging it is to get a high GPA at berkeley. Or do your friend's parents think a 3.8 from University of Bridgeport is worth the same as a 3.8 at MIT?</p>

<p>Do you guys have any advice on how to persuade her parents that Berkeley is the right place for her? Any help is much appreciated!</p>

<p>shes asian? maybe shes not a true asian lol. From what i know, most asians would prefer any day to go to cal over uci</p>

<p>donjuan78, SHE would prefer cal any day, it's her parents that are the issue here</p>

<p>JP and im, thanks for the solid advice!</p>

<p>berkeley is 1 hour away from the OC on airplane, and it costs 100 dollars round trip. So the airfare expense is actually less than what she would be paying now on the commute to UCI.</p>

<p>@Elliott - Yes, finances and distance can be a big factor for any parents. Esp. for asian parents distance is a key consideration.</p>

<p>But again for asian parents, academics are very important. So ask your friend to take a look at below link and show it to her parents. This is an unbaised ranking of world's top universities (not just USA) done by Shanghai Jiao Tong University to compare how chinese universties are doing with respect to top universities in the world. Unlike US News ranking this is really much more realistic based on a lot of factors.</p>

<p>ARWU2007-Top</a> 500 World Universities
Click on Top 100 and you will see the name recognition UCB has at #3 versus UCI at #45</p>

<p>If she shows such evidence, given the importance asian parents place on academics, I am sure they may relate to it.</p>

<p>Hi, I'm the one Elliott's been talking about. And yes, I'm Asian.</p>

<p>So basically in a nutshell: I got accepted to UCSD, UCI, UCLA, and of course Berkeley. Berkeley seems to be the best fit to my personality because it seems to have the most diverse and intriguing atmosphere, with a high level of academic excellence [I have yet to visit, but first I have to convince my dad to actually consider me going to Berkeley].</p>

<p>Out of all the reasons previously listed, I believe my dad's main concerns are of financial and emotional worries. He's heard about many students at Berkeley having nervous breakdowns, and as an overprotective, well-meaning parent... he worries about me. Plus I have two older brothers also in college- one is now a freshman at UCLA and the other a sophomore at UCI... College is too expensive these days, especially with three children attending at the same time. And that's only undergrad...</p>

<p>Thanks for your advice! It's been extremely helpful so far... Any more advice would be appreciated. =]</p>

<p>What about UCLA? The quality of the students is pretty much the same as at Cal (the 20 extra SAT points Cal students have are pretty meaningless) and the undergrad programs are likewise pretty much the same. The atmosphere at UCLA is supposedly more relaxed, so that may help alleviate the legitimate concern your dad has. It's close enough to the OC to give your parents comfort, but also far enough to let you live your own life.</p>

<p>@michellie - If you have a good relationship with your parents, you should be able to sit down and discuss the pros and cons with them. All parents want the best for their kids and as you say are "well-meaning". So if you adopt the right attitude to discuss it out, they will listen to what you have to say. Don't start with the attitude "you guys don't know what is right for me"</p>

<p>Also somehow I get the feeling that with 3 kids in college, finances may be the root cause. Sometimes just like kids, parents may give umpteen reasons why something is not good for you, but the root cause may be a single item that is bothering them. So all this about "you will have a nervous breakdown with the stress at UCB" may just be a lame excuse, as they don't want to upfront say "we are worried about how to foot the bill" I get that feeling as your friend mentioned that they want you to commute from home after sometime.</p>

<p>So talk it out with them and see if finances is their main concern. If it is, there are lots of resources to help you sort that out. Talk to your high school counselors and they will give you a lot of guidance on how to approach that problem.</p>

<p>I agree with bartleby that UCLA may be a good compromise between what you want and what they want.</p>