<p>I too was from a small college town and loved the campus feel of Princeton more than the urban feel of Yale. Perhaps if your son has grown up in Princeton, he feels most comfortable with that type of campus setting. I would not dismiss those feelings since they tend to get stronger with time and contribute to one’s sense of unhappiness (or contentment) with a college choice.</p>
<p>Yeah, I want to ditto goolsci’s comment. I’m not sure why Yale thought it was a good idea to plan BDD for the last week of school. My hosts were really social during the three days that I was there, but they were constantly mentioning the mounds of work they had in the upcoming week, since it was the last week of school. They got out a lot, but still had to go to the library or stay home working. However, I didn’t spend much time with them, opting instead to spend my time with the people who will ACTUALLY make up my class, instead of current students. That was more fun, getting to know them and the campus and stuff.</p>
<p>I don’t think that choices should be made depending on hosts. Kids should remember that they’re not there to judge their host but the campus. If their host was not the best of people, then that shouldn’t deter you from Yale.</p>
<p>Is it possible that Yale just isn’t the right school for your child? Sometimes I think people get so caught up in the Ivy thing that “fit” is disregarded a bit. They are WONDERFUL schools, but of course they each have their own flavor and style and setting and it may be that the chemistry just isn’t right at Yale.</p>
<p>For anyone who isn’t enamored w/Yale or their child isn’t – that’s OK. Doubtlessly, they’ve been admitted to other fine schools as well. I had no guilt turning down other “prestigious” schools for Yale. I’d hope I wouldn’t have had any if I’d turned down Yale for my other choices. Yale’s not going to win everyone over – indeed approximately a full 30% will turn the offer down. </p>
<p>I’m sure there are people hoping for big Waitlist action!</p>
<p>I too had a better time at Princeton Preview than BDD. However, when I thought about why, it had everything to do with the better weather, the fact that my host at Princeton was an upperclassman and that I was exploring the place with a classmate. My host at Yale basically greeted the pre-frosh on Monday and chatted for about an hour but then had to study for “finals”. Still, I prefer the edgier, urban feel of New Haven to the suburban, gated-community ambiance of Princeton. Trying to compare the academics of both places is somewhat silly, especially if you end up changing majors; both have tremendous resources and are focused on undergraduate education. I will be in New Haven in the fall.</p>
<p>Congrats toomuchtime!!! I can’t wait to meet you in the fall, although we probably won’t know who we are then.</p>
<p>I too did not like the suburban and quiet feel of Princeton so knew that I could not apply there.</p>
<p>This is an absurdly disorganized ramble. I’ve changed my conclusion about five times. Enjoy.</p>
<p>I’ve been in love with Yale for about a year and a half, and getting in early was an absolute pipe dream come true, but I came home from BDD disappointed with fatigue and ambivalence. I think that the horrific weather affected things (particularly the first night, when frantic running around to find people in wind and rain made me particularly irritable)… New Haven looks particularly gritty in the rain. But what made things worse was the incredible flurry of social activity that was disorienting for all but the most extroverted people. I felt exhausted by social competition as soon as I stepped foot onto the campus. People were trying to meet as many of their peers as they could and get to as many activities as possible, and were surely staying up past normal bedtimes socializing with people. It was really tiring.</p>
<p>The highlights for me were the academic fair (a little crazy, but I was one of the first there and got to have some great conversations with department heads) and the extracurricular bazaar, which felt less intimidating and more like a series of boundless opportunities. Several events, such as the Viola Question, the YPU debate, the master classes, and the YDN open house really got me excited. But meeting people is really exhausting to me. I’m hardly an antisocial person (and I don’t mean to toot my own horn by saying that I’m well-liked… my point is that this feeling is not limited to introverts), but I still preferred absorbing Yale in the situations where I didn’t have to talk to a bunch of people I kind of ran into and wasn’t particularly interested in. </p>
<p>My hosts were really very accommodating considering the pressure they were under… it would have been nice if they could have taken us around a little more but they were all willing to talk at night for long periods of time, giving candid descriptions of academics and social life. They weren’t incredibly enthusiastic, but they were overworked juniors. I suppose it was just hard to relate to them. They had done a lot of the Yale traditions and gone past the I <3 YALE OMGZ! FOREVER phase that freshmen and sophs might be in. But at the same time, they were so convinced that Yale was the best place to be, particularly socially. That was encouraged if not what I was expecting.</p>
<p>I think I’ve realized that I’ve had ridiculously fanciful notions of what college would be like, and few of my complaints are really specific to Yale. It was just a pressurized social environment in the middle of a monsoon, and even the good things had a way of bringing me down to earth. People were not as intellectual as I thought they might be. They loved crappy music and crappy movies and crappy books just like all my high school friends, and were so eager to network and Facebook that I felt like I was in a sequel to high school. I thought that there would be a lot more people like me there.</p>
<p>But the last day at the very convincing pizza party I met some people and kind of sat down and relaxed and was able to move past the “Hi, my name is…” phase and move into actually getting to know people. That was really pretty wonderful. As I look back on that I think that stands out as an experience, oddly enough. The weather was kind of nice for a couple hours, there were no frat parties to go to or people to find, people had been here a couple days and were beginning to settle down, and I started to relate to people on a more genuine level. It was a relief, and evidence that admit weekends like BDD are really terrible ways to evaluate different schools. Academics and ECs aren’t given enough emphasis because kids are still in high school/Facebook mode, and how much fun you had really came down to the people you were roomed with. This is particularly dangerous when you look at the fact that people are looking at social environmental to break down ties between top academic schools.</p>
<p>In conclusion, I’d tell your daughter to go back to looking at brochures and websites and course catalogs to research colleges. These admit weekends do not do a fair job. I did not like BDD, and could not be more in love with Yale.</p>
<p>…I have to say that I’m surprised that ANYONE did not enjoy themselves at BDD. I mean, sure, the weather was awful, but there was SO MUCH going on that I’m hesitant to believe that there wasn’t something for everyone going down.</p>
<p>Then again, it seems that I had a different attitude towards BDD than some of y’all. First of all, I wasn’t really expecting my host to guide me around or anything; I was grateful to her for letting me crash on her futon, but she was busy, and I wanted to explore. I also probably had the huge advantage of already knowing some prefrosh (in fact, extremely close with a few), who I started out having dinner with on the first night at Commons–but while I was there, I met a ton of other people, and we event-hopped well into the wee hours of the morning. (Incidentally, didn’t even realize there was a frat party going on until the other girl staying with my host asked me if I went.) I don’t consider myself a particularly extroverted person (actually, I can be sort of shy), but over the next few days, I got to know a dozen or so prefrosh pretty well–by sitting in on the same classes with them, eating breakfast with them, going to ice cream socials with them, etc.–and met tons more, all of whom felt like friends I just hadn’t really gotten to talk to yet.</p>
<p>I have to disagree with milessmiles on a few points: first, I’m not sure what he was expecting in terms of intellectualism, but looking back at all of the meals I shared with fellow prefrosh, I can recall conversations (…some of which may more appropriately be titled “respectful arguments”) that we had about bioethics, the problem of authorial intent, gender theory, and free will–so, I was pretty happy with the degree of intellectualism I found.
Second, I think it’s a dreadful idea to get your ideas about colleges from brochures and websites. Maybe prefrosh weekends aren’t the best way to get to know campus, but at the very least, you should spend a few days there when there aren’t 1000 other prefrosh there, and see what the day-to-day life of a Yale student is actually like. There is no substitute for that experience, at all.</p>
<p>In summary: Yale is awesome. I suppose that if you went to, like, all of the official Yale events instead of the awesome student-run ones, and didn’t sit in on any interesting classes, and didn’t try to branch out and eat meals with some interesting prefrosh, it might have been unpleasant. Or maybe the people who didn’t enjoy BDD just aren’t meant for Yale. Either way, don’t force yourself to love Yale; there are hordes of waitlistees who might get more out of the Yale experience than someone who doesn’t actually want to be there.</p>
<p>goolsci, thanks for mentioning that BDD occured during the last week of classes. I did not know that, and I am impressed that students would host anyone at all at that point in the semester.</p>
<p>As I read over other responses, I find myself disconcerted. I think underlying the OP’s question and my post is the question: how to evaluate if a student likes Yale, but did not enjoy BDD that much? Is the BDD experience indicative of whether or not they would like Yale? Some posters seem to imply there is something wrong with someone who didn’t like BDD, and that they should stay away from Yale. This doesn’t feel right to me, and I know there are many people (current Yalies and alum) who love(d) Yale who were not ecstatic after BDD.</p>
<p>I very much appreciate what milessmiles had to say. The description s/he gave could have been written by my son. Although he reported endless conversations on fascinating topics which he really enjoyed, and he did not expect his host to show him around and had no need of that to find his way to many events and activities he was excited about, somehow the experience was not as happy making as Princeton Preview. I think it’s a good point that my son may have felt more comfortable on Princeton campus since he has grown up in Princeton, which is one of the reasons why “we” (meaning myself and my son) think Yale might be a better choice for him as there is something to be said for going away to school.</p>
<p>I’d like to add for the record that Princeton University is by no means a “gated community.” The gates have been standing wide open since 1979 and people from the town wander through the campus all the time and attend events and lectures on campus. Further, there is a special community outreach program which allows anyone to audit a Princeton course on any topic they wish for a nominal fee ($125). If you will take the time to go into just about any Princeton classroom, you will observe a couple of townspeople in attendance.</p>
<p>miles, I feel your pain. I did find good advice in Dean Jeff Brenzel’s letter to admitted students which was posted on March 31st in the blog section of the website for admitted students. Here are some excerpts:</p>
<p>4) Most important step. If you possibly can, visit the schools that accepted you, even if you have visited them already. Let me repeat this. Go back for another visit. Remember, you know a lot more than you did a year ago. And now the visit is for real. When you arrive, act like you have never been there before. You will be amazed at how some of the schools seem to have changed since you first visited.</p>
<p>Why? It’s because you have changed and you are continuing to change now that you have those admission offers in hand. When you walk onto campus, try to avoid finding reasons not to like a place - things that turn you off. Instead, try the much more useful exercise of trying to picture yourself there as a student, thriving and enjoying both the educational opportunities and the campus scene. This may involve picturing yourself in some new ways as well. This is a good thing.</p>
<p>6) If you can follow these steps and hold off the rush to judgment, you may be very surprised to find yourself strongly considering a school you would not have originally put at the top of your list. And if instead, you end up confirming your first choice after all, you will have only done so after giving it a very sober review in light of the competition. This is not only healthy, but it is going to make you much more knowledgeable and realistic about what to expect when you arrive on campus. Remember above all else that NO college is going to be paradise, and that ALL colleges have something truly outstanding to offer you.</p>
<p>Do read the whole letter. I found it useful and was impressed that the Dean would take the time to write such a thoughtful letter.</p>
<p>stringkeymom</p>
<p>I appreciate your dilemma because Yale and Princeton are both amazing schools and I know that you’ve done enormous research on the quality of the music program at both schools (and I believe that your conclusion was that both were very strong, with maybe a slight edge going to Yale because of the School of Music).</p>
<p>I guess what I wanted to say was that many of the posters on CC, when faced with a decision between comparable schools (or even schools that are non comparable), always tell the student to visit and choose based on the school that just felt right. Your son visited both schools and felt that one school was right and one wasn’t quite right. In that case (and fully recognizing that I’m biased towards Princeton, so you can certainly discount my advice), I would let your son choose the school that he fell in love with–Princeton.</p>
<p>lookbeyond,</p>
<p>I didn’t find many of those people. Quite frankly, I mostly found people who liked to talk about crappy movies they loved and what frat parties were around. This is not to say I didn’t have a couple substantive discussions (about the college decision process), but I think that goes back to my point that these things can be a bit of a crapshoot… if you’re surrounded by wannabe socialites it’s a lot easier to find yourself alienated from the experience. I guess I got unlucky. I’m not that bothered by my BDD experience but I just feel like others torn between two schools are told to use these previews as ways to decide, but ultimately it is impossible to get an objective sense of a place because it is very easy to get caught in a group of people that you don’t really relate to. Reading materials at least can give a broad, all-encompassing, if not particularly penetrating depiction of the school. Visits are great too, and I loved my visits.</p>
<p>I’m glad you had a fun time, but I came home ambivalent, and I know that I’m going to love Yale. I think that exalting these in-person social visits as the be-all and end-all of decision-making is a bit misguided. You are making social generalizations based on an extraordinarily small sample size of the population. And quite frankly lookbeyond, it’s a bit arrogant to tell me that yale is not the best place for me because most of the people I met I didn’t immediately relate to. I also made a point of saying that people were thrown into a stressful situation and as a result were less authentic and relaxed. It was not a mere condemnation of my peers.</p>
<p>I also didn’t mean to say that my host should have held me by the hand anywhere. I probably didn’t articulate this well enough, but my point is that nobody was really looking out for me while I was there. You had to meet people, and that turned everything into a social competition for the first 24 hours. You couldn’t just hang out with your host. This wasn’t my expectation; it merely reflects the situation in front of BDD go-ers.</p>
<p>Some will love BDD; others will hate it. Most of my hosts told me that they had a terrible to mediocre BDD experience but love the school, so I don’t think that my position is particularly radical or pessimistic. Take your visits into account, particularly what you get out of the architecture/facilities/student happiness, but meeting fun people might or might not happen. That’s why you need to do your reading as well. There’s nothing wrong with conventional wisdom some of the time.</p>
<p>Unfortunately the experience that you describe of BDD mirrors my experience of the school: a highly pressurized social environment with many stressed-out students who spend many hours in the dining hall enumerating all the books and papers they have left to read/do.</p>
<p>thanks, midatlmom: the decision must be filed today and my son is currently in new york at a two hour marathon music lesson/chat about his musical options. instinctively and holistically, princeton feels right, yet yale continues to be attractive. feeling that yale deserved a better chance, i drove my son back up for another visit earlier this week (making the third visit this spring); the weather was beautiful, campus was quieter (reading period), and this time he stayed with his friend in one of the nicer residential colleges, dined in college and even received a tour of a secret society hall and a hint that he might be tapped if he came to yale. (for the record, this is one of the more open societies, the first historically to open its doors to women and one of the few that invites non members to its events). </p>
<p>milesmiles, thanks for your post. my son’s friend (sophomore at yale) told him that he had a less than euphoric bdd experience also, due to the fact that his host and roommates had all concealed from each other that they were planning to host for bdd. the result: 16 pre-frosh and their sleeping bags sardined into a small-sized common room.</p>
<p>collegebound36: the stress in the atmosphere that you describe is my main concern, esp. for perfectionistic son who doesn’t tend to cut himself any slack.</p>
<p>just to let everyone know, last night at 11:59, ds clicked on the link to accept Yale’s offer of admission. he realized princeton would always be a part of him as this is his home town, and he can visit his friends on campus every time he comes home for a visit. i think it was hard to say no to a place he loves so much, but there are many exciting things about yale he also loves and is looking forward to come fall.</p>
<p>Congratulations. Know that it was a difficult decision because I was in the same situation but I also chose Yale.</p>
<p>Yea! Stringkeymom!</p>
<p>Hey, if he wants to just have some fun with his music (in addition to his more serious commitments) - there’s always YPMB.</p>
<p>stringkeymom</p>
<p>Congratulations to your son. Yale is a wonderful school and I’m certain he’ll be extremely happy there.</p>
<p>Bow-wow-wow! Lonestarkid is headed to New Haven in the fall! She is very confident and happy about her final decision.</p>
<p>Thanks to everyone who brought valuable perspective to D’s decision process. She really appreciated the time you took to post your thoughts.</p>
<p>I would just like to echo stringkeymom’s observation that being less than euphoric by the end of BDD does not mean that a student is somehow deficient in social skills, independence, or enthusiasm for Yale. Kids bring a wide variety of expectations and experiences into BDD. Lonestarkid, for example, has had a great high school experience with plenty of intellectual peers, so perhaps she did not experience Yale as an intellectual nirvana beyond her wildest dreams. That doesn’t mean that she isn’t genuinely looking forward to an undergraduate experience that will challenge her in every way and surround her with friends and classmates of jaw-dropping talent and intellect. </p>
<p>It will be very fun for her if she discovers that some of those talented new friends are those of you who helped her make this important decision! Thanks again!</p>
<p>Yay!</p>
<p>I think the “kid” is going to have a great time. It is truly rare to find a student who doesn’t love Yale AND their residential college. </p>
<p>I am sure she will be very, very happy!</p>