I think the teachers are in a tough spot. If they act outside the school’s advice, they are on their own if they write a letter. What if a teacher write something you don’t agree with (about the suspension or another act) and you decide to sue him? No protection from their school, personal liability? I wouldn’t write it.
I worked for a major corporation, and letters of recommendation were not provided. If you could talk a boss or co-worker into a recommendation, it was a personal one, not a corporate one, and rarely were they written, just available through a phone call. Too much liability if they were in writingand the corporation wasn’t going to support you if you were sued.
twoinanddone - True everything you have said. I work for a large corporation that expressly forbids giving recommendations in official capacity. An unfair policy, IMO, but a legally tenable one.
austinmshauri - good question. I can not discuss the specifics here. The manner in which this was brought to us has some traces to suggests that it was not random chancy event. As others posted here, schools/teachers have reasons to be over-protective & throwing a few people under the bus would be justified means to a noble end.
My brother was asked to seek other educational opportunities by a catholic schol he was attending. Basically, at the time if you were expelled from a private schol you could transfer to public without many consequences, or from the public school to a private. One bite of the apple without catastrophe, but there was no way to stay in the school. My parents went to the archbishop, but there was no saving him. He was very happy at the public schol.
A friend (deep family roots in politics and this school) had pot and a pipe in his pocket a week before graduation. The teacher/brother (religious, not my brother) overlooked it as there would have been no appeal or forgiveness and nothing that could be done. No where to transfer to, no way to have it cleared from the record if it had been reported.
I agree with Hanna and the OP that this is overreach. There may be some legal justification in their minds, but honestly, expelling the kid really is way more than enough discipline. I think a teacher there would be admirable if he or she wrote one anyway.
First off I am a college student and am know more an expert than anyone else on this web site. But I was just discussing this thread in a class on ethics, taught by one of our law professors.
This was not a law class just ethics. It was a crazy interesting topic, nearly took the whole class time. This was the general consensus among the class.
Good call on withdrawing from the school prior to the expulsion. It is now a non-issue.
Get a good lawyer, he should be able to get the charges dropped. Ultimately one Vicodin is not a huge deal especially with a solid academics, athletics, character and family support.
Deal with what ever punishment/family issue might be happening. Sounds like you son is suffering plenty of consequences already.
Apply to colleges, go to college and never look back. Oh yea Don’t do Drugs.
If the charges don’t get dropped, it could be the best essay topic ever “My biggest Mistake”, “Ruin you life with one pill”, “Hard Life Lessons”
My oldest brother was accepted to Vandy with 2 underage drinking convictions, that he had to explain in interviews and an essay. I think his essay title was “The Red Solo Idiot” So all is not lost.
In the end I absolutely do not believe your son’s life is ruined, more like a bump in the road. We all make mistakes.
Going to throw two cents in here bc I have knowledge of some kind of similar perdicaments- take them for what they are worth.
I am not going to comment on your sons possible drug problem bc it seems you are handling that as best as you see fit.
My Son was accepted to an ivy, In the ED Facebook page there was another person accepted to same ivy ED from a prep school. That person was caught at Prep school w pot/ was expelled from prep school and had admission decision rescinded from the ivy- 100% for sure. Top schools don’t have any leniency for drugs. zero.
My son was bullied in HS and filed “charges”. One of the bullies withdrew from HS in May of JR year rather than face the investigation (he was guilty). That student was accepted to Virginia Tech - I am told (by good friend of the family) the student answered no on common app to “have you ever faced disciplinary charges” (grey area since he was facing them but withdrew to avoid facing them). I am also told he had several old teachers (from my sons HS) write letters of rec but had “new school” guidance teacher write letter of rec for the guidance teacher part. They never uttered one word about incident.
You will need a good lawyer if you have criminal charges bc that will have to be disclosed on common app if convicted.
Hanna, compmom - the principal did not forbid the teachers from giving a reco’ in their personal capacity. But official one was a no no. We have some silver lining there. (The thread got longer. Just to recap/reiterate, he was not expelled. Nor did the principal categorically state what would become of him. It is this uncertain situation that forced me to withdraw him before they could label him as “expelled”. So, technically, he is not expelled. Through some hearsay later, we learnt that expulsion is what they had in mind. I was hoping that they would allow him to continue after some probation - I even made a supposition to the principal to that effect. But it was not in the intent of the principal/school board. Dangling us in an uncertain predicament without an open discussion was another unhelpful aspect of this situation).
2017girl - thank you for the encouraging words and data point about your brother). Our son will likely call up the schools, explain the situation and seek guidance before applying.
“In the end I absolutely do not believe your son’s life is ruined, more like a bump in the road”
True that. We are working on multiple fronts at the moment. A lawyer is one of them.
runswinyoga -
“You will need a good lawyer if you have criminal charges bc that will have to be disclosed on common app if convicted.”
We are praying that it wont get that far. But yes, a defense attorney is working on this.
What’s really the difference between personal and “officially?” The letterhead?
And your son seems to have a good period to develop relationships with the new teachers. (It’s often tough when a kid submits something from a 10th grade teacher. Some presumption the recs will come from more advanced classes,as he matures and takes on those challenges.)
You know you have to deal with “what is.” Some aspect may not be fair, but it’s writ.
The CA question is: Have you ever been found responsible for a disciplinary violation at any educational institution you have attended from the 9th grade (or the international equivalent) forward, whether related to academic misconduct or behavioral misconduct, that resulted in a disciplinary action? These actions could include, but are not limited to: probation, suspension, removal, dismissal, or expulsion from the institution.
He was not expelled, but it seems me was “found responsible.” Adcoms do know kids do dumb things and I don’t think anyone can predict one pill will garner the most serious reaction from them, especially with the hair test, the counseling and other proactive steps. None of us know if there will be court action.
We called up a few schools today to understand how they would treat the case. No one flat out said that he could not apply. The general recommendation is to be clean, open and clean or the situation & remedial actions he is taking. Some went as far to say that they had handled such cases before where admissions were granted.
This is one pill that he had not taken, and the negative hair test is significant. HIs grades had not tanked and he seems to be the kid he appeared to be, who made one ill-thought out mistake. I would think colleges would consider him.
The remaining issue is why. And what this says about future choices, since the past seems relatively clean.
Good luck. You are handling this so well, as I wrote before, and it seems that the outcome need not be so tragic.
Sorry I’m kind of confused - was disciplinary action officially taken by the school against your son, and then you left the school before the expulsion or did you withdraw before the offical investigation and disciplinary action was complete?
I think if you left before there was an offical verdict with disciplinary action meted out, you might not have to disclose everything, as it wouldn’t necessarily be on his record… I would contact the school and ask what exactly is on his record with regards to this.
I agree its usually best to be completely honest about the situation but I really think it would be worth it to have the help of an experienced college admission counselor like Hannah (or someone in that field) in disclosing all of this to schools…
“I think if you left before there was an offical verdict with disciplinary action meted out, you might not have to disclose everything, as it wouldn’t necessarily be on his record”
That’s true, but leaving in the middle of senior year (mid-semester, no less), is a big red flag. Some sort of crisis occurred. The highly selective schools this student is aiming for will expect a full explanation. Whoville State may not care, but Dartmouth sure will.
OP here - this happened during the senior year leading upto a 2017 graduation. So time is very short. Yes a 2-day suspension was in effect before the withdrawal happened.