Help Me Decide!! (University of Pittsburgh vs. University of Michigan Pharmacy)

College Search & Selection
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Hello there reader. I have decided to make this post in response to my constant battle back and forth between what school I should attend next year. So where do I even begin? I have been accepted into the University of Pittsburgh and the University of Michigan both for pharmacy and have received from both of them the pharmacy guaranteed admission. Yes, I have applied to other schools, but have ruled them out. So now the decision needs to be made between Pitt and Michigan.

One of the issues is price. I am in-state for Pitt and the estimated cost for next year is around $31,000 (I received a $2000 merit scholarship). However, me being out of state for Michigan was a HUGE problem until recently when I received a $24,000 grant. That narrows down the cost of Michigan to roughly $38,000. I have also been applying to scholarships to help lower down my costs as well.

Secondly is the distance. While Pitt is a very leisurely drive from where I currently live, Michigan is around 5 hours away. While I do not mind the distance my parents do. This idea hasn’t really sunk into my head yet.

I should probably mention that I heavily favor going to Michigan for many reasons. Number one: the school spirit the school offers is nowhere close to Pitt. School spirit is something that I would love to have, but obviously is not necessary. Additionally Michigan is more prestigious than Pitt, but I’m not sure how I would handle the difficulty. I also love the atmosphere up in Ann Arbor when I went on a visit.

There is one thing holding me back from Michigan, however. A prerequisite for pharmacy at Michigan is two semesters of physics (Pitt does not require physics). I have never taken physics in high school because I thought it would not be needed for pharmacy, so I took double sciences related to biology and chemistry.

So what should I do? Should the $7000 difference between both schools matter? I need help!! Thank you for making it this far, as I desperately need some opinions on my decision!!

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Look into the tuition costs of year 4 and 5 specifically when doing your total cost for pharmacy school. I believe Pitt’s charge more for those 2 years becauce they are considered to be graduate level. Also, will your Michigan scholarship carryover fro those additional years ?

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Will you need to keep a certain GPA for that scholarship?

Even if costs don’t change for the 5 years, 5 x 7 = 35, as in $35,000 difference between the two programs. That would buy you a decent new car when you graduate. Where is that money going to come from? In fact, where is the $31,000 for Pitt going to come from? Sit down with whoever is helping you pay for all this, and run the numbers. Lots of good calculators for that at http://www.finaid.org/calculators/

What do you mean exactly when you write “Michigan is more prestigious than Pitt”? That your HS friends think Michigan is more famous? That you have hard evidence that a DPharm from Michigan will be hired at a better beginning salary than a DPharm from Pitt? That you have hard evidence that a DPharm from Michigan will get you into a job that you can’t get at all with a DPharm from Pitt?

As for school spirit, you should just drop that from your concerns. Pharmacy students don’t have time for that stuff. They are in class, or in a lab, or in the library hitting the books, or busy with an off-campus internship. I’m not saying that all you will do while you are in college is work, work, work, but you certainly will need to be doing more of that than a lot of the typical undergraduate students during the years classed as undergrad, and even more of that when you get to the years classed as graduate.

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“As for school spirit, you should just drop that from your concerns. Pharmacy students don’t have time for that stuff.”

Nonsense

“What do you mean exactly when you write “Michigan is more prestigious than Pitt”?”

Harvard is more prestigious than Michigan. Michigan is more prestigious than Pittsburgh. That’s what she/he means.

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Does your family have the extra $7K? Or would you have to take out loans above the standard federal student loans?

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@rjkofnovi - For a professional program like a DPharm, the relative prestige of the university or college is immaterial. What matters is if there is a real difference in marketability of that specific program. That is what the OP needs to find out.

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happymomof1, while I agree that prestige is immaterial to the field of Pharmacy, I disagree that Pharmacy students cannot enjoy college life. The premed, prelaw and engineering majors I knew in college worked hard, but they also played hard. The main question the OP needs to answer for himself is whether or not the $35,000 incremental cost of attending Michigan (over 5 years) is worth it to him. Some may find it too steep a price to pay while others may find it totally worth it.

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ACT 32, right?

You will be surrounded by kids at Pitt who scored better than you and who are more prepared academically. I can assure you my ACT 34 kid is at times one of THE lowest scoring kids in her peer group of engineering students.

Michigan is ranked like…FOUR rankings ahead of Pitt. This will likely never ever matter. At all.

If you want to go to Michigan and get out of PA, that is understandable. If you have the $$ in your college budget and everyone can happily pay without significant debt, then it is reasonable. But I wouldn’t base any of the decision on the perceived prestige of Michigan over Pitt. #4-5 in the USNW rankings vs. #9. That just doesn’t make sense.

As far as distance, you are smart to consider that. It takes a certain amount of grit to go a few states away to college. You WILL get sick and you will have to manage that on your own. For the three day weekends, it will likely be harder to drive home and enjoy the comforts of home for a few days. You will have to figure things out on your own. A lot of kids do fine with that and a lot don’t.

What is the environment like at Michigan? Is it competitive or more collaborative.

And finally, don’t underestimate the brutality of physics. Is it calc based physics?

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I agree, look at costs for all 6 years. Keep any loans to a minimum if pharmacy is a goal.

The Pitt scholarship is going to be available for the first four years. Prepharmacy 1 and 2, P1 and P2. The pharmacy school has some scholarships you might be able to apply to for P3 and P4 as well.

The GPA you need to maintain for the Pitt scholarship is a 3.0, but for the pharmacy guarantee you need a 3.25 anyway.

I assume the grant at Michigan is need based, so it can change as the EFC changes.
Also it might not apply to the PharmD program.
OOS tution at Michigan is most likely more than instate at Pitt for the PharmD program.
What are the requirements of the Michigan pharmacy guarantee?

Pitt has an excellent PharmD program. It is also one of the top schools receiving research funding from the NIH.

My D did the SEA PHAGES 2 semester biology lab option and did hands on research in her freshman year.
She was an UTA for that class in her sophomore year and works in a lab as well.

There are several hospitals right around campus, professors are accessible if you want to be involved in research.

Pitt students have lots of school spirit, but you should stay away from partying if possible, because you cannot afford to get into trouble if a professional license is your goal.

Pitt academics are pretty rigorous, you will be taking chemistry and biology and organic chemistry with labs. The professors my D had were offering review sessions before exams and she took advantage of that and worked in study groups.

My D liked not having to take physics, she only had to take a few required classes because she had AP credit for Calc, econ and English.

You not having taken physics at all in high school would put you at a serious disadvantaged at Michigan, if you have to take it for the first time in college.
Also it might take more than 3 years there to finish your pharmacy prerequisites.

My D had time in her schedule to take some classes for fun, like sign language.
She finished her prerequisites in 2 years, applied only to Pitt, had her interview on campus and is happily attending her first pharmacy school year at Pitt, getting an excellent education.

Off campus housing is fairly affordable in Pittsburgh. The free bus pass makes getting around the city easy and Pittsburgh has lots to offer, great food and culture.

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“@rjkofnovi - For a professional program like a DPharm, the relative prestige of the university or college is immaterial.”

I agree. However, the statement the OP made that Michigan is more prestigious than Pitt is correct.

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http://schoolpages.pharmcas.org/publishedsurvey/480

According to the U Michigan PharmCAS page, 3 years of pre-pharmacy is required at U Mich. So it would be a 3+4 program.

So you would have the extra cost of the one year, plus you will get your PharmD degree a year later.

Comparing this to Pitt’s PharmCAS page, the following differences are notable.

Only 10 early assurance students are estimated to move on to the professional phase at Michigan (how many start our in EA?)

At Pitt 50 early assurance students are estimated to move on to the professional phase (which should be almost all of them since about 50 spots are reserved for EA/GAP).

Male to female pharmacy student ratio is 30/70 at Michigan, 40/60 at Pitt.

Average GPA of 2017 entering pharmacy class is the same 3.5 at Michigan and Pitt.

Pitt accepts AP credit for prerequisites, Michigan does not.

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http://schoolpages.pharmcas.org/publishedsurvey/486

Forgot to post Pitt’s PharmCAS page

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Ok I did the work for you and looked up just the TUITION and FEES cost at both schools for the total 7 years at Michigan and 6 years at Pitt.

Michigan charges $23,574 for OOS tuition per semester for 0-54 credits and $25,240 for 55+ credits. Then there is a $164 per semester fee.

So that’s $47,476 a year for year one and two and $50,808 for year 3 of prepharmacy. Assuming you get the same $24,000 grant all three years it would be $23,476 for the first two years and $26,808 for the third.

Then PharmD tuition and fees is $39,402 for P1 and P2, $36,894 for P3 and $52,566 for P4 (those last two have potential scholarships figured in that they have listed on their website).

So total prepharmacy tuition/fees cost: $73,760
And total PharmD tuition/fees cost: $168,264
$242,024

Pitt instate tuition in A&S for the first two years is $18,130 per year plus $950 fees and minus $2,000 scholarship = $17,080

Pitt Pharm D tuition instate is $31,040 per year for all four years, plus about $1,534 fees, minus $2,000 scholarship in P1 and P2. So $30,574 for two years and $32,574 for two years.

So total prepharmacy tuition/fees cost: $34,160
And total PharmD tuition/fees cost:$126,296
$160,456

$80,000 difference in cost between Michigan and Pitt!

And that is just the tuition and fees portion, it does not include future tuition increases, possible grant reductions, housing and food costs, transportation costs and possibly having to buy health insurance coverage for OOS.

It also does not include the one year of pharmacist wages you would lose if you graduate a year later.

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Hope this feedback is helping - Best of Luck

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I agree with @mommdc, you’re far better off at Pitt. OOS universities often turn into huge money traps because it’s easy to underestimate cost when a student REALLY wants to go there. Prestige is completely overrated, especially for a bachelors degree. As long as you get high grades, you shouldn’t have difficulty getting into a good pharmacy program.

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Sorry everyone for the lack of replies from myself, I will attempt to reply to everyone.

@twocollegekids My family and I have calculated the total cost over the span of 6 years at both Pitt and Michigan and Michigan is definitely more than Pitt. Also the grant I received is only for the first year at Michigan.

@happymomof1 I do definitely agree with you about how the level of prestige for pharmacy schools does not really matter that much as compared to other majors. I have been told too many times to count that a graduate at Pitt vs. a graduate at Michigan will not get you one job over the other. However, I do have to say I do believe school spirit plays a role in what college I will decide in. If I did not like school spirit, I would have looked into smaller schools that don’t focus on that. My sister goes to Ohio State and I absolutely love the amount of spirit they have. That is definitely something I want to be a part of if I can, and if I can’t then it’s not the end of the world.

@nw2this My family is going to try to contribute as much as they can for my college education, but in the end I am going to be the one who will be paying it back aka I will be taking out lots of loans. So I guess no, the extra $7000 is not accounted for at the moment.

@Alexandre I totally agree with your statement about whether or not I will be willing to pay that extra amount of money to go to Michigan. I think at this point in my heart I think that I want to go to Michigan, but really in my head I’m thinking logically. Pitt is probably the better option, but I would love to go to Michigan. That’s where I am torn.

@carachel2 I do agree with you on your stance about the prestige of schools. I have came to the realization that for pharmacy, rankings of the schools themselves do not really matter if they’re so close. Additionally, as far as I know the environment at Michigan is extremely competitive from what I hear. Don’t quote me on that. Also, the physics that I would have to take is 2 semesters of physics, and I believe they are both intro to physics courses. There’s two semesters because I believe there are two different sections of physics covered.

@mommdc Well it looks like we meet again. To answer your questions, let me start with the Michigan pharmacy guarantee. It is the same requirements as Pitt, maintaining a 3.25 GPA, and yes, from what I’ve heard it will require me to take 3 years to fulfill the amount of prerequisites for pharmacy. That’s very concerning for me, as the number of years for pharmacy is a big factor in my decision. I also agree with how physics is going to be quite the struggle for me. That is the ultimate factor holding me back from Michigan. I’ve also noticed as you mentioned about the amount of AP credit Pitt takes over Michigan. That’s also another plus for Pitt. I’m not too concerned about the male/female ratio as you have included. Also, I REALLY appreciate you crunching the numbers for me. Yes, that $80,000 difference between Michigan and Pitt is enormous. Definitely something I have to consider. For me as a teenager, it’s kind of hard to put into perspective debt, as I have never really experienced it. Hopefully this will be a wake up call for me. Thanks.

I will keep you guys posted on my decision. I’m visiting Michigan next week and meeting with a staff member from the School of Pharmacy. I will ask LOTS of questions. If you have any suggestions for me to ask, feel free to let me know!

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Here is one loan repayment calculator: http://www.finaid.org/calculators/loanpayments.phtml

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OP already has a pharmacy school guarantee for Pitt.

As long as he completes the 60 something credits of prerequisites (AP credit can be used for some of these), maintains a 3.25 GPA and gets a good PCAT score, he has a seat reserved in the PharmD program.

That is huge!

Students who don’t have that, have to compete with others for a spot, apply to several pharmacy schools ($150 app fee), travel to interviews at different schools, and take all the prerequisites for other potential programs (including physics), which will most likely take more than 2 years.

Pitt really has a top notch pharmacy program!

It will not matter whether your PharmD degree is from Pitt or U Michigan.

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How much can your parents pay without borrowing? YOU can only borrow ~$5500/year (about $27k total). Can your parents pay the other ~$160k for Pitt or ~$240k for Michigan? Which school is better doesn’t matter if the majority of those charges are being paid with loans.

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^Please note that the cost comparison I posted up thread was based only on 6 yr Pitt, versus 7 yr Michigan TUITION and FEES.

This was the easiest parameter to compare, because the numbers were clearly listed on the college websites.

That does NOT include housing and food costs, or transportation costs, or health insurance, or anything else yet.

Cost of living is pretty reasonable in Pittsburgh, a car is not needed until possibly the 6th year (rotations), and public bus transportation is free for Pitt students.