Help Recovering from College Dismissal

Applying to College
21

Verbatim quotations from the OP in post #17:

a) “However, Berkeley just decided to dismiss me outright.” Which is absolutely their prerogative; a non-judicial administrative hearing does not provide the full “due process” protections accorded in the criminal justice system, nor is required to.

b) “I probably picked the worst time in the century to screw up because colleges are under national pressure to crackdown harder on student misconduct because of the race demonstrations, feminist movement, and etc.” In other words, what many feel is a long-overdue collegiate emphasis “student misconduct” is – in part – responsible for your debacle.

Look, you’ve acknowledged your SERIOUS error, and that’s great. However, some CC posters (not you, necessarily) apparently believe that once you’ve done so, all should be forgiven. That’s simply not the way the world works. You’re an adult, adults are held accountable for their actions, and decisions have consequences. After one admits guilt, one has to serve his penalty.

In your case, that means (as I understand what you’ve indicated) you are permanently banned from UC institutions until (perhaps forever) the Chancellor approves your re-enrollment. I don’t have a clue whether that’s a reasonable penalty or not and, candidly, opinions are irrelevant because it’s the sanction determined to be suitable by UCB. I thought a few years in the military might be both personally beneficial AND precisely the sort of experience that Berkeley might believe justifies your re-matriculation. Evidently, that’s an option you do not wish to purse, which is certainly your privilege. However, this leaves you with no viable path forward (as far as I can ascertain).

I would be willing to wager that it will be years until UCB is willing (possibly) to approve your readmission. Are on-line undergraduate programs accredited and would they admit you, since your direct interface with other students would be limited? Are overseas universities a potential alternative? Would for-profit “institutions” be a reasonable possibility?

I mention these options because I suspect your admission to any “standard” four-year institution will be extremely problematic. Why would they incur the potentially significant legal, political and media risks associated with your matriculation? I’m sure you will understand that the reporter, the local legislator, and the tax paying citizen would all react with both incredulity and with a “what were those boneheads at X University thinking” attitude, were you again to commit a serious conduct offense after X enrolled you, knowing that you had been expelled from UCB due to your unacceptable comportment.

22

@HarvestMoon1 (re post #19): “And yes, if this were my son I would support him and do what I could to allow him to move on. That’s my job as a parent - to ensure he accepts responsibility for what he has done, learned from it and then help him find a path that let’s him continue with his life.”

As a father (of three fully adult children) and a grandfather (of four, ranging in age from 17 to under two), I generally agree with the INTENT of your statement. Where we disagree, however, is I believe parents who (possibly repeatedly) extricate their adult children (and the OP certainly is >18) from substantial problems – for which they are clearly accountable – significantly impede both the youngster’s acceptance of responsibility and his concomitant learning. As long as the “kid” – through repeated parental intervention – feels that he will be rescued, his motivation to act responsibly and to understand that bad decisions have adverse consequences will likely be (seriously) undermined.

23

Just a guess but my feeling is that you likely applied “too soon” after the dismissal. I think that colleges would want to see some time pass and some thoughtful addressing of the problem and some way to assess there wouldn’t be an occurrance. Military or reserves is certainly a good suggestion, but not if it doesn’t fit. Did you fully explain the incident in your applications and the counselling and insights that you had? I think that was essential.

“Also I probably picked the worst time in the century to screw up because colleges are under national pressure to crackdown harder on student misconduct because of the race demonstrations, feminist movement, and etc”

I’m not sure if you meant it this way.This is really bothersome how you seem to blame people trying to stop harassment on behalf of victims rather than the people doing the harassing

What your parents are suggesting is pretty appalling. They suggest you submit a fraudulent application in order to avoid revealing your dismissal. Sure just lie and cheat to solve further problems, is that really the way to go? Fraudulent applications subject you to further sanctions, banning, and having your diploma rescinded if it did slip through. But the national student clearinghouse is used by many schools. Forget this. All transcripts have to be submitted, that is what you attest to when you apply.

I think for now, one of the coding bootcamps will be a good idea. There are quite a few that have a good reputation and you have ‘some college’. You can find suggestions on Quora. Then after you have spent a few years working, you could have less problem applying to finish.

I do not think you should apply to usual on line for profits. But maybe Digipen would work. Possibly Full Sail though I am iffy about that one. For the legitimate university associated online, like University of Maryland, University College I am a little skeptical because their online CS classes don’t transfer to their regular program. But it is a degree.

24

OP, what would you think about doing [non-programming] IT? You could self-study for A+, Network+ and Security+ on your own (or through a CC course). It’s hard finding a way to get your foot in the door for the very first job - you might have to start with tech support, but it’s doable.

25

“Also I probably picked the worst time in the century to screw up because colleges are under national pressure to crackdown harder on student misconduct because of the race demonstrations, feminist movement, and etc”

Sorry if that came off as callous. I was just trying to provide more background on my situation. I don’t blame anyone but myself for my mistake, and I applaud other students for taking a stand in the way the world works. I’d probably join them under different circumstances. However, during the appeal process, my counsel brought up that I was the first dismissal case in a very long time that didn’t have something to do with outright cheating/assault.

Maybe I did reapply too soon. However, as I already took 2 years in Berkeley, I’m pretty much out of transferable courses to take at CC so I felt like I had no choice but to apply. My therapist even recommended that I go all out with my applications this year as waiting an extra year or more would put me drastically behind all the regular applicants. It’s not my parents’ fault that they suggested retaking courses at the CC; they just don’t know how college admissions truly work. Heck even I don’t understand admissions fully enough to explain it to my parents.

With regards to my application, I tried to explain the circumstances of my dismissal as best I could, but with a 650 word cap, I could only emphasize so much, and it’s my word against the University’s.

With for profit colleges, I don’t know how I feel about them. Recently the Corynthian Colleges (Heald, Everest, etc.), the biggest for profit there is, got slammed for all sorts of fraud. If there are any for profits that y’all can vouch for I could research them more thoroughly.

As for the army, it’s not that I am completely opposed to it. If all my options come down to joining the army, I suppose I can’t argue. However, realistically looking at myself, I don’t really look like army material.

Coding bootcamps are something I haven’t seen before. Could anyone elaborate more on them? Are they comparable to Uni courses? Over the summer I was thinking of self learning computer science through online course notes provided by top universities, but if I did that, I wouldn’t really have any paperwork to vouch for my knowledge. If coding bootcamps are sufficiently accredited and I can add that to my resume, that could be a much better option than just taking random classes at a CC.

All in all, I’m not asking for a get out of jail free card. I’m truly remorseful for what I’ve done and I’d pay any price to take it all back. However, I know I can’t just sit in my room feeling sorry for myself. I need to get my life back on track so I can prove to my family that they aren’t wrong in supporting me. I ask only for the wisdom and knowledge from those who know more than me so I can avoid screwing my life over any more than I’ve done so now.

26

You know a lot of university let you take courses without enrolling in it. Do you know Python? If not learn that online and I bet you can get tons of jobs with that skill. I agree with poster who wrote that you may have applied too soon, try again in a few years.

27

coding bootcamps in SF- have at it!

http://www.npr.org/blogs/ed/2014/12/20/370954988/twelve-weeks-to-a-six-figure-job

'At age 26, Frausto has gone back to school. Sort of. He’s enrolled in a brand-new kind of trade school: the immersive Web-development program, also known as a “coder boot camp.” These programs promise, for several thousand dollars, to take people like Frausto and, in a manner of weeks, turn them into job-ready Web developers.
Job Descriptions

Several computing-related fields overlap with web development, all with different education and experience requirements. The Bureau of Labor Statistics offers these broad definitions:

Virtually unknown just four years ago, today at least 50 of these programs have sprung up around the country and overseas."

http://www.bootcamps.in/san-francisco/

http://www.skilledup.com/articles/the-ultimate-guide-to-coding-bootcamps-the-exhaustive-list

28

CSU transfer admissions are based on prior college GPA, ranked against other applicants applying for your campus and major (there are also modified thresholds for California resident versus non-resident and, at some campuses, local area residency). You must have had the required course work for some specified GE requirements and preparatory courses for your major completed ( http://www.assist.org should tell you that). Whether or not a dismissal would cause them to question your application (if all of the usual academic items are otherwise sufficient for admission) is something that you would need to ask them.

29

I do know Python, as well as Javascript and C++, but nothing very in depth. Mostly I self learned via sites like Codecademy. Maybe this was just because I studied at Berkeley, and there are so many prodigies who’ve already done years of research/internships, but I never saw myself as very competitive on the job market as of now. But if you feel like I could find some work experience somewhere, then it wouldn’t hurt if I went looking.

I apologize, as I realize that I’m starting to ask a lot of tech/CS specific questions. I might have to start moving over to a tech forum like stackoverflow or quora to get more information, but many of you seem very knowledgeable in this area, and I respect your opinion. If a moderator thinks that I’m starting to derail off the purpose of collegeconfidential, please tell me!

30

The coding bootcamps are high-intensity courses that teach a substantial portion of the typical CS content of a CS major (but not the general education) over a short period of time. They might be 80-100 hours per week for 10-12 weeks or so.

Self-education is another option for the most highly motivated people with respect to CS. However, the lack of a credential may be an impediment, although in a strong CS job market, that may be less of an impediment than otherwise. A prominent role in a high quality well known open source project may be an alternative credential.

If you do get to the interview stage, expect technical questions. Small programming problems involving data structures are common. More advanced concepts (networking, databases, etc.) may be asked as they relate to the job. But if an employer is a stickler about background checking, you may eventually have to explain the dismissal to the HR/recruiting people.

31

Post #28, you already know more than some students. My daughter got an internship this summer in Silicon Valley paying close to $40/hour and she only knows Java, C, C++. She didn’t do well on interview because she was too busy to prep, so start hustling. Do you know somebody that can introduce you to a few companies for interview? Review your data structures. Tell companies you are taking a break from school, Berkeley is not known to be NOT stressful, sorry for the double negative, even Apple wants Berkeley students to not finishing school.

32

@TopTier who is extricating their child (possibly repeatedly) from “substantial problems?” This boy has not been extricated and that is exactly why he is looking for suggestions on how to move on with his life. I am saying to try everything possible to mitigate the situation. You are rubbing salt in the wound and basically implying his life is over. From one mistake in college? I doubt it - it is a detour at worst and possibly one that he was meant to take. Kids make mistakes - it doesn’t sound to me like he committed a felony or anything remotely comparable. Let’s keep things in perspective.

33

No military, it’s not for everyone. Very structure. You can’t solve every problem by joining the military, people should only join the military because they want to.

But let me tell you, life will through you curve balls and how you deal with it and your attitude will make a difference. Sure you no longer can rely on that CS degree from Berkeley, but there are people who never receive a degree and still work in the valley. It maybe a little harder at first but right now there is a boom in CS so that maybe your opportunity to get some experience.

34

when one door closes, another one opens.
Boot camp might be just the ticket for the OP to move on with his life and get a CS education in less time!

35

I think the coding boot camp sounds like an interesting life skill so if you have the money and nothing better to do, why not. May help even if you get a degree

“Look, you’ve acknowledged your SERIOUS error, and that’s great. However, some CC posters (not you, necessarily) apparently believe that once you’ve done so, all should be forgiven. That’s simply not the way the world works. You’re an adult, adults are held accountable for their actions, and decisions have consequences. After one admits guilt, one has to serve his penalty.” Last time I checked, Gov Christy is still in office after the GW Bridge event (for those not in this area, it was a big deal to a lot of people). Someone in South Carolina was elected to the Senate or Congress (I forget) despite facing criminal charges and do not get me started on the former Mayor of I think DC or the Clintons. For heaven’s sake, he said he did not hurt anyone. This country LOVES to give all sorts of people second chances. Stop trying to emblazen a scarlet letter I on his chest.

UC shafted him because he had inadequate representation is what it is sounding like, perhaps if I knew the prank I might be the first to condemn (not asking OP, really do not care). The process has none of the hallmarks of a fair trial. Surprising for a public institution. Makes me wonder. Maybe those protections are in our judicial system for a reason? Like to make things fair. Duh. It is arbitrary and capricious. Everything a system designed to protect the OP (and his victims) futures should never be. This is probably a kid who got straight As in high school, captain of whatever, now you want him to go to some ITT technical school with the kid who was put on probabtion for drug possesion after flunking out of 10th grade. Come on! Maybe he should get a job doing landscaping? Plenty of lawns in California (sorry OP this is not directed at you, I hope you are able to transfer). Yes I know all work is honorable and I hope that OP is working now to help support his family rather than sitting in his room but going forward I think there should be more to his future. If you can get a job at google or apple, great.

GET A CONSULT WITH A CONSULTANT OR LAWYER WHO SPECIALIZES IN THIS. The consultation is probably free or a few hundred. May be worth it, may not. The fact that no one has been thrown out for this type offense is significant. Find out what your legal rights are. Research them yourself first. Since this will come up in a background check, find out how it is being reported, it may be reported incorrectly. At a minimum find someone who can tell you how to address it with future colleges and employers since the way you are is not working. I do not think you should put your life on hold for another couple of years especially since your therapist does not seem to think you should. You should be able to explain it in 650 words or less. It can probably be explained in 50 words. And is probably better explained in 50 than 650. Talk about what you have achieved as you have moved past this. Do community service, preferably in a manner that shows you have learned from the incident.

Another option is to look on the list of schools that are still available out of state, figure out how much you can pay or would have paid for Cal, See which schools are offering merit or financial aid for your GPA. Talk to them, maybe visit or interview so they can get a sense of you. Do you interview well? If not practice, especially how to address the incident.

36

OP if you are considering learning coding through technical school or boot camp, I do think it is an interesting idea. What I said above was not meant to dissuade you if you think that is a good option for you.

37

@HarvestMoon1 (re post #31): In the second paragraph of post #19, you were writing as a “surrogate parent,” providing suggestions regarding what you would do were he your son. I directly quoted your doing so and offered significant rebuttal in post #21. Moreover – and this is important – the OP is neither (again to quote in you, this time from post #31) a “boy” nor is he a “kid”. Rather, he’s legally and factually an adult.

We encourage responsible adult behavior ONLY when:

  1. We demand accountability from adults (like the OP), and
  2. We allow those who make poor, irresponsible decisions to learn from the resulting adverse consequences, without intervention or misguided assistance.

You may remember the mediocre TV show Beretta from the mid-1970’s. Its star’s famous tagline was, “If you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime.” The OP “did the crime” and now he has the opportunity to learn many important lessons by “doing the time.” In my opinion, it really that simple.

38

@jason2311…Not sure what you did, but acknowledging your mistake is a necessary start. Two stories…My son recently graduated from a very good Jesuit university. In his sophomore class there was an Ivy student who was expelled as part of a fraternity hazing that led to a student’s death. This expelled student later transferred a second time to a top 5 state school and graduated. On a less serious note…quite a few years ago a senior was expelled from our nearby Jesuit university for fighting and breaking into the offices to change his failing grades on his transcript. He was immediately expelled and joined the Army for 2 years. During that time, he begged the university President to give him a second chance. The President finally obliged and the senior returned to earn his degree. A few years ago that senior sold the insurance business he founded for close to $1 billion. He now is the largest donor to his alma mater.
An expulsion does not mean the end and is your opportunity to learn from your mistakes.
Perhaps a college admissions consultant could help with your future college choice.
Hopefully you will learn and grow from this incident to become a better person.
Good luck to you.

39

@toptier " UCB will necessarily have to treat the OP precisely as it would any other student in his situation (and, I suspect, they have already done so). Berkeley and the UC System clearly cannot have a different set of rules for the OP – and for his transcript – than for MANY others."

Well, I have heard of incidents where a student is allowed to withdraw instead of being expelled, for example. That could be good for both sides.

40

There’s no need for bashing someone who is already down, which some poster/s feel an unstoppable urge to do. It does sound like OP is remorseful, so the question is how to move forward. I do agree, you need to get some sort of representation, and find out what is being said. I believe that is your legal right. You also need to address the issue head on when you apply. If you pussyfoot around it, everyone will assume the very worst. Dev bootcamp sounds good. Also, Germany is now offering free university education, so you could try that!

But bottom line, you need to know what is being said by the UC and tell the entire story. They always say the first step in any recovery is owning it. If it was bullying, consider starting a non-profit for that. Try and correct for the public good whatever you did. You don’t have to say you did it, just show the campuses you’re applying to that you’re trying to make amends and grow.