Without any details on the incident, others making judgement on the fairness or not of the result are just making guesses.
The actual student conduct code is at http://sa.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/UCB-Code-of-Conduct-new%20Jan2012_0.pdf (with an additional revision at http://sa.berkeley.edu/code-of-conduct ).
Absolutely. Just as the ones assuming he must have done something truly awful otherwise why would the great and judicious institution expell him are only guessing. Meanwhile I had trouble with the link on my computer (it is my computer will have to look on my tablet later) but naive college student represented by fledgling lawyer v inhouse counsel and experienced administrator is not always a fair fight.
OP if you have the finances to do so I would strongly recommend that you seek out one of the college consultants who have experience with these sorts of situations. You are not the first and surely not the last to walk this path. Good luck!
OP - I like the idea of the coding camp and going to work immediately. You already did well in your lower div courses at Cal, and a coding camp can polish your skills and help you get placed.
This is not advice I would give most students, because getting a degree will serve you well in your career and getting it now is the ideal time. Life happens, and many students who drop out of school and plan to return and finish their degree requirements never do so. However, in your unique circumstances, I feel a little time away from the school scene will help you towards a new start. Do well at work and get involved in some worthwhile community activities. After a few years, transfer into an excellent CSU such as Cal Poly SLO and complete your degree.
I’m making the assumption that your UC ban will not effect your ability to attend a CSU - you will need to verify this.
My husband teaches at Cal Poly in Construction Management and up to 10% of his students are “older” students who worked a few years in a trade or as a field supervisor and decide to return to school so they can improve their career prospects.
Many Google employees don’t even have college degrees.
According to that article, it is “up to 14 percent of some teams are now made up of people who never even attended college”, not necessarily 14% overall. It is also likely those without formal education in college are highly self educated.
Post #41, anything could have happened. I was glad OP clarified.
Do talk to a lawyer do see what your options are. BUT I also think you need to spend some time in the trenches showing remorse and demonstrating you have matured whether that means the army or coding bootcamp and a job. You are going to have to take some time off and do something besides school for awhile imho.
This is perhaps the single most important lesson you will learn. Colleges don’t fool around. The past 20 years have led kids to mistakenly believe that college is all about partying. This does go on the transcript. If I were you, I would seek employment for a time period & work hard at it to demonstrate some personal growth. Then go find a school after-one that is looking for students.
Withoout knowing the OP a couple of things are blazingly clear, HE HAS LEARNED HIS LESSON, HE HAS SHOWN REMORSE, HE HAS BEEN PUNISHED ALOT. Sorry for shouting but that is pretty clear to me at least. I do not think he needs to learn anymore lessons or show any more remorse.
He does need to figure out his next steps.
Very few individuals in my experience go back to school unless they are from a family or culture where not having a degree is unacceptable. Even then, as someone pointed out, life gets in the way. I have a cousin like that and he is not employable in his field except through connections where his lack of a degree is overlooked. The OP has parents that will help pay his way, funds are limited but they are available. Who will help him pay for his degree at 30? Maybe google will, maybe he will make so much at apple that he does not need a degree. I know nothing about the demand for coders in California. I know paid interships are premised on someone being enrolled at Cal or MIT at the time the interenship starts so I doubt he is eligible. Maybe there are high 5 or low 6 figure jobs for graduates of coding boot camp, if that is true, fabulous. I have no idea or experience with this.
Assuming this is not the case, he needs to get his record sorted out so he can get a degree and more importantly, when an employer searches his background he will not come up with a problem. That should be a priority but if the coding is a real opportunity then by all means.
Post # 48: "HE HAS LEARNED HIS LESSON, HE HAS SHOWN REMORSE, HE HAS BEEN PUNISHED ALOT."
No CC participant can possibly know if foregoing is true. Only the OP’s long (many decades) future can DEMONSTRATE if it actually is. The world is filled with heartfelt statements of repentance and assurances to “sin no more,” only some of which prove factual. Specifically:
The point here is words are cheap, excuses and sorrow are often insincere, designed only to resolve the immediate problem, and recidivism is extremely common. I deeply hope the OP, in fact, has learned his lesson and that his repentance is both genuine and enduring. However, no one can KNOW with certainty if he has. His penitence will begin to mean something in a decade or two, if he has not violated major policies, statutes, regulations, or ethical principles. Until then, they are only words.
Here’s this article from Bloomberg news about the value of ‘coding’ classes:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-07/coding-classes-attract-college-grads-who-want-better-jobs
Your are correct @TopTier “words are cheap.” And it is very easy to be hyper-critical and opine on retribution via military enlistment when it is someone’s else’s child. Any reasonable parent would attempt to help their child make the best out of bad situation. Berkeley to a CC is punishment enough.
I think the point that was being made in #48 is that we should take him at his word (he’s remorseful, learned his lesson and has paid the consequences) and since he came to this board for help on how to move forward from this mistake the focus should be on that and not on the offense (or making him feel worse than he already does).
Sorry, but while I understand the OP is a young man who made mistakes and needs a chance at redemption, I do not feel an inclination to rescue him from his dilemma. He said he’s looking for a “loophole” to allow him back in the UC system. There’s no easy out for the OP, and I am guessing that there shouldn’t be. People aren’t dismissed from Berkeley every day. The OP said that his counsel said that he “was the first dismissal case in a very long time that didn’t have something to do with outright cheating/assault.” Well, that can be taken in two ways – the way he probably meant it (look how unfair this was!) or the other way (his offense was so egregious that it warranted the first non-cheating/assualt dismissal in a really long time).
Did anybody else bother to read Berkeley’s Code of Conduct (links are in post #40)? I read it (and the revisions) from front to back.
It is very clear to me that the OP was likely given an opportunity to resolve the case informally and didn’t – or the Center for Student Conduct found his “prank” so egregious that they thought it was necessary to formally handle the case via an administrative or panel hearing and declined to offer an informal opportunity to make amends. Neither one of those things looks good on the OP.
It also seems to me that Berkeley’s Code of Conduct is well-written, clear, and focused on fair and reasonable “due process” with the proper intention to “inform students about appropriate behavior within the community, help them learn from mistakes, and discourage future violations of the rules of conduct.”
There are all sorts of “gates” throughout the lengthy process for “the accused” to acknowledge mistakes, make amends, collaborate informally for a resolution, accept sanctions, request a formal hearing, and if desired, an appeal. There seem to be many, many opportunities for the accused to demonstrate remorse and an understanding of his/her transgressions, and to make amends. At least the way it’s written.
It’s hard for me to believe that Berkeley’s administration would rather dismiss a student than seek a viable resolution that serves all parties. So, it’s likely to me that the Code of Conduct is fairly enforced as written.
And so, that begs the question: Did the OP go wrong, beyond his original offense? Did he miss a deadline to respond? Did he forgo an informal resolution, which admittedly requires him to admit the violation and waive the right to appeal (scary!)? Did he fail to cooperate by remaining silent (his right) or refusing to participate in the process (also his right)? Was his violation so egregious that any reasonable administration would ultimately make the same decision for dismissal, given the same course of events?
It just seems to me that the Code is written very fairly; the process is lengthy, clearly delineated, and, it seems, complete with a considerable amount of due process.
And so, I don’t feel quite as sorry for the OP as some of the others here. I have the sense that his “prank” was pretty stupid and/or harmful, and/or that the OP pretty much blew off many early chances for apologies and amends.
No school wants to dismiss their students … I would imagine that most administrative officials would take no joy in such a thing … and in fact, it could well be that some administrative officials lost sleep over the OP’s case. They’re human beings – and probably have kids – too.
And finally, what about those who were really hurt by the OP’s actions? Has anybody else thought about him/her/them? Whatever this transgression was, it earned the OP a dismissal! How would you feel if your son or daughter were the target of the OP’s “prank?” You might well feel relief and a sense of justice at his dismissal, depending upon the transgression, and you might not have the wherewithal at this point to feel sorry for him at all.
Beyond all of that, some of the OP’s comments don’t sit well with me.
OP: “It’s not that I did something exceptionally horrible that they not only had to dismiss me from Berkeley but also block me from every UC. It’s just how the UC system works: every student who gets dismissed from one UC needs chancellor approval to get into a different UC.”
It strikes me that you must have done something pretty horrible – or made a series of less-than-horrible judgment errors, like blowing off the process on top of a horrible or almost-horrible offense – in order to get yourself dismissed under this lengthy and fair-sounding Code of Conduct. Furthermore, it’s likely not a coincidence that every student who gets dismissed from one UC needs Chancellor approval to get into a different UC. It’s likely that, since the process for dismissal is so rigorous, the UC system feels it’s necessary to require Chancellor approval prior to re-admitting any previously dismissed student. That is, perhaps the UC administration thinks that any transgression that ultimately leads to a dismissal is “exceptionally horrible.”
This, from the Code of Conduct: “Dismissal will typically be used in cases that cannot be appropriately addressed with a suspension because the recurring nature of multiple violations or the extraordinary caliber of a single violation demonstrates that the student does not deserve an opportunity to return to campus. Readmission after dismissal may be granted only under exceptional circumstances.”
OP: “If it helps, I didn’t physically assault or hurt anybody.”
Ummm … It is very likely that whatever you did did hurt somebody. I read each and every “Grounds for Discipline” item in the Code of Conduct. They all pretty much hurt other people. That’s why you have a Code of Conduct. You were not dismissed for something harmless, and it raises my antennae to hear you simultaneously pleading remorse while claiming that you didn’t hurt a fly. It sounds to me like you’re feeling regret, not remorse.
This, from the Code of Conduct: “The University of California at Berkeley is a community of scholars committed to maintaining an environment that encourages personal and intellectual growth. It is a community with high standards and high expectations for those who choose to become a part of it, including established rules of conduct intended to foster behaviors that are consistent with a civil and educational setting.”
OP: “The one thing that really frustrates me is that many colleges provide students about to be dismissed with the option of withdrawing voluntarily, avoiding a dismissal from appearing on their transcript. However, Berkeley just decided to dismiss me outright.”
Not buying it. I read the Code of Conduct from front to back. You yourself said it was a very lengthy process. They did not dismiss you “outright.” They followed a long process and I presume they kept you informed, in writing, along the way, as outlined in their Code of Conduct. Forgive me if I’m wrong about this, but it also seems to me that you could have withdrawn voluntarily at any time. What’s to keep you from quitting while undergoing the process? Did you not have that choice? (Hmm. Well, I did read that if you decide to remove yourself from the process, the process will go on without you. So maybe that’s what you mean. Would they take it to the bitter end if you had already withdrawn? And weren’t there earlier opportunities to accept the informal collaboration that they claim to prefer, or to withdraw at that time?)
OP: “Also I probably picked the worst time in the century to screw up because colleges are under national pressure to crackdown harder on student misconduct because of the race demonstrations, feminist movement, and etc.”
Enough others have already commented on this sentence and what it seems to reveal about your thinking. No need for me to go on. But I gotta ask–you are aware that race demonstrations and the feminist movement have been going on for some time now, right?
OP: “All in all, I’m not asking for special treatment. I just want to be able to get into a decent college and complete my education, but this dismissal is really hurting me.”
As you said, you could try OOS colleges, but you don’t want to. It would be inconvenient for you.
I do see that this dismissal, which you brought upon yourself, is hurting you. When people make egregious errors in judgement, they risk hurting themselves as well. I wonder if you have given as much thought to the others whom you hurt.
I don’t think the OP is necessarily beyond repair or that he should never get help again. He’s a young man who can surely offer a lot to the world. But I do think he has a way to go in his reparations and amends and in his acceptance of his misdeeds. And I think that, by design, he must find other ways to earn his education–outside of the UC system.
OR, he has to find a way to earn the Chancellor’s approval … which will take work and humility, not loopholes.
Hello again, I’d like to personally thank everyone for spending so much of their time on my post. Your shared knowledge has been more than what I could ask for and it’s really been helping me plan out a course of action. Many people have been focusing on the sanctioning process itself. I’m not particularly comfortable with this since I came here to ask for advice and not judgement, nor did I wish to trash talk the UC sanctioning process or administration. I suppose it is their right to do this so, and in order help facilitate a more informed discussion I’ll try to convey all the necessary facts about my experience with the sanctioning process…
I went through every step of the sanctioning process from the informal to the formal hearing. Nowhere in that time was I told that I could withdraw voluntarily as opposed to being dismissed. In fact, I did withdraw to avoid paying the school full tuition in the case I was dismissed. (The whole process stretched out over the course of an entire semester and I wouldn’t get a refund if I enrolled in classes and got expelled. I also wasn’t advised of this either and had to research it myself.) I’m pretty sure I have to be specifically offered the deal because the dismissal appears on my UC transcript, and if I just withdrew, they’d still be free to edit my transcript. I fully cooperated with the administration, even confessing to what I did, thinking it would help me show my humility. My defense was mounted on me being sincerely remorseful and that I accepted total responsibility for my actions. Thinking back, I probably should have exercised my right to remain silent/self incrimination. Like I said, I was represented by the Student Advocacy, a group of very wonderful and supportive students. However, the prosecution consisted of officials from the Office of Student Conduct; we did not deal with the students I offended, and I didn’t have a chance to apologize to them/ask for their forgiveness as a part of the sanctioning process. After I was notified of my dismissal, I did appeal, but it was denied. At this point, my counsel told me directly that they felt that the dismissal was out of proportion.
With regards to my statement about hurting students, I apologize for being ambiguous. I meant literally that I did not physically harm them in any way. With regards to the national movements going on, I am not saying that I wish they did not happen. I think it’s a wonderful thing that students are uniting together to reach justice. However, my counsel shared this point of view with me, it is entirely possible that, since the nation is watching universities under a microscope in regards to student conduct, administration has to crack down harder on their sanctions to make examples.
And when I asked about any way or “loophole” that would help me get back into the UC system, I didn’t mean some legal ultra fine print that states that they have to let me back in. I wanted to know if there were people I could talk to, maybe in the UC administration, that I could explain my situation to and beg them for a second chance. The Chancellor is a busy man and most likely way over my pay grade to write to directly. And why should he give a single student any consideration when he has to maintain a school of tens of thousands? I was just hoping that maybe there was someone I could speak with who specifically works with students, and with them, I could plead with the chancellor to consider giving me a second chance.
It may very well be that my actions are unforgivable and I should give up hope on attaining a college degree. So be it; I’ll own up to that. But I firmly believe that my life can’t grind to a halt because of this mistake. I still have to find some way to succeed and make my parents proud of me. If it’s army or coding boot camp, then I have no choice but to pursue those avenues.
Edit:
And I did apply to out of state colleges, such as University of Washington (hasn’t responded yet). I’m not totally opposed to them on principle. It’s just that tuition for them is leagues more expensive and financial aid for them are much less, and I want to try and have as little student debt as possible.
@Jason2311, can you get a degree at your local cc? If so, I’d do that then try to transfer. It will show that you’ve kept yourself out of trouble and were able to complete something. When you apply to transfer, apply to a range of colleges. Report all your colleges and make sure to briefly answer the question about previous disciplinary actions honestly. Don’t blame or explain; just own up to doing x, say that you were expelled, but that you’ve gotten counseling and have grown from the experience. Do some volunteering so you can gain some perspective. There are people with far more serious problems than the ones you’re facing. Time, and a clean record going forward, will help you. If you’re rejected your first time out (I’d get a degree in something that will help you get a job, just in case), work for a year then apply again. Repeat until you get an acceptance. Good luck to you.
@jason2311: Verbatim quotations from post #55:
With this said, I believe post #56’s advice is excellent.
You asked for help. While I do not think the beating a dead horse retribution idea is helpful, academically you got some advice about the boot camp or looking at the list of colleges that still have room for transfers, either way that is a plan. As far as a way back in, rather than worrying about people who do not know you and do not know (or care) what you did, think, HIRE an expert to help you. There are lawyers and consultants in your area that have experience with this, get references, have people you trust come with you to meet them. They are paid to find the “loopholes” you are looking for. You are still young and naive you need an expert. That can be a parent who is a lawyer, a trusted family friend (but not if they have no clue and have spent the last 30-50 years doing real estate). Bottom line, even if you decide to do coding you still need a clean record and someone with experience can help you get that. This is not covering it up, just letting you move on. While I have no idea of exact costs, it may be less than you think. AND DO SOME RESERACH ON YOUR SITUATION. Did you even post this on the UC Forums
@HarvestMoon1 (re post #51): “retribution via military enlistment.”
To suggest that military service, in defense of the nation’s freedoms and our follow citizens’ liberties and prosperity, could be RETRIBUTION – rather than a patriotic privilege – is highly insulting. Having served for over two decades as a Naval officer, it appears to me that your knowledge (or, actually, your profound lack of understanding) of the military, of what service really entails, of its sacrifices as well as its joys/advantages, and of its almost 250 year documented record of being a principal foundation for our independence should disqualify you from offering certain comments.