Highschool question? Daughter hates school!!

Parent Cafe
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Quick question and I will try to make it short!! My 15 year old is in a exclusive STEM school in Texas she is a freshman. It ranked well top 200 in the nation and the best within 50 miles of where we live…which was good for a about 2 months. She has never been a lover of math or science, but always in all honors or gifted classes, so this made sense. She is not athletically or musically inclined with no desire to try for either, so a school that focused solely on academics seemed great. It’s 100% digital no textbooks and she can graduate with a associates degree. She loved it in the beginning, but once the new car smell wore off and her friends at the local high school had nothing workload wise compared to her she now says she hates it her words:

“It’s too hard, too much work, the people are snobs and elitist, I don’t want to be a engineer, everyone seems to know exactly what they want to do in life and I have no clue. I’m not a good fit!! Can I go to a regular high school?” Her current grades are 3.3gpa range which we expected we are fine with a 3.0. The school said “Don’t expect your 4.0 student to be a 4.0 student here the curriculum is very rigorous!”

Her college aged nephews/nieces have told her “STAY GOOFBALL!! Of course it’s hard, but you a getting a huge leg up!” that only perks her up for a day or so. Her mom and I are sort of at a loss as to how to proceed with her. There is a lot of work I will say projects, reports, she does a solid 2-2.5hrs a night and probably 4-5hrs during the weekend. It does seem very much like a college level workload.

To add to that her 8th grade younger sister wants to go there which is partially due to her older sister going. She is adamant we put in her application next week when they start accepting applications for Fall/2015. Well the 8th grader does even better in school and she has no urge to play sports/music either. She excels in Math, but hates science, 3.9gpa+ always in honors or gifted classes as well.

If we give one daughter a scapegoat then if the other one doesn’t like it she will say the same thing…then what? How much is it just tired of doing the work, seeing her friends that don’t go there have so much free time, etc etc?

My wife feels like this is the best option we can give them heading off to college. Life is hard, working hard is important, entitlement is rampant in the workforce with new graduates as is, and our daughters need to suck it up and deal with it. They turn away so many kids every year that our 15yr old should be grateful she even was accepted to throw that away would be silly. She feels stronger, but I too hope for the same, that when they are 18 and graduate with a Associates they will be happy, proud, and thank us for not letting them quit.

What would you do so hard so hard!!

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If she is not a lover of math or science, she should NOT be in a STEM school IMO.

Unless her regular high school option is atrocious, I think she should be allowed to pursue a path that is more suited to her strengths rather than forced into STEM- which she clearly doesn’t love.

That workload seems way too high for a 15 year old who, again, doesn’t love the work.

The decision for the freshman D should have absolutely nothing to do with what the 8th grader may or may not do.

ETA:

Sorry, just saw this.

IMO, this is exactly the time of life when young people should be allow to try things and be able to back out if they find out that it isn’t what they want. By forcing her to “stick with it” IMO, it signals that she shouldn’t take chances because she’ll be stuck with them if she doesn’t like it. That isn’t the right message to send. You should encourage her to try things that are of interest and encourage her to stick with what she likes.

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The thing that you seem to consider a positive, graduating with an associates, could end up being limiting if colleges that she’s interested in put her in the transfer pool (which is much more competitive) instead of first year freshmen. Just something to consider.

We all hate to see our kids unhappy, so this must be hard. I do see you point about teaching character and sticking with it. But if she goes to the local public school consider that not much is more miserable than a bright kid in a mixed ability typical high school classroom. If she has always been in gifted classes, she could be in for a rude awakening when thrown into the general population.

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I would not have my children in a STEM school if they didn’t love math and science. Did I understand correctly that you are now considering having your younger daughter go to this school as well? You say the older d is not a lover of math or science; also that the younger d “excels in math but hates science.” Maybe they’ll both be grateful if you force them to stick it out; maybe they’ll always resent you; maybe they’ll act out in ways that are difficult to deal with; maybe they’ll just be miserable (and make your life miserable) for the next however many years.

I don’t understand the significance of graduating from high school with an associate’s degree, and I don’t know why that would be a particular source of gratitude for your ds. Does this give graduating high school students an advantage in college admissions or job placement?

Most children will learn that “life is hard [and] working hard is important” even if their parents do consider their feelings about where they should go to high school.

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Help me understand why she is in a STEM school if she is not in love with science or math.

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Two of my sons went to an “engineering” type school in our district but they loved Science and Math. Even then though, my oldest waffled back and forth after the middle of his freshman year whether to stay or go to the comprehensive high school. His engineering high school offered Project Lead the Way, had wonderful labs (with 3-d printers, robotic hands, woodworking type tools) but he missed some of the “normal” things that the other high school, including girls as there was a 75-25 ratio when he began. He decided to stay which was a wonderful choice for him as he knew when he went to college that he DID want to be an engineer and ended up getting his Mechanical Engineering degree. My middle son went to the comprehensive high school, although STEM oriented and now a CS and Math major in college, because he wanted the art and music classes, band etc. My youngest son went to the open houses for both schools and was adamant that he wanted to go to the engineering school. By this time this engineering high school offered a bio-medical track so there were more girls (about 60-40 now) but it also offered everything he was interested in. He knew he was giving up some things, but he also was offered other opportunities (Skills USA, underwater robotics competitions, sumobot competitions) that the other school did not have. This school was wonderful for both my kids; however, it was wonderful because they were interested in the curriculum offered. If they had decided to not go there, I would have been fine with that and although they would have had less engineering experience, they would have “caught up” in college. Let your daughter decide where she wants to go and what she wants to study.

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Your Ds can get into Harvard from a regular public high school.

Imo, they will probably be better off for all college applications (and life) if they are stand-out 4.0 students at a lower-ranked high school than just average at a prestigious high school that they hate.

Even if they don’t get 4.0 at the regular school, they will have more time to discover, pursue and enjoy other new interests. A lot happens to kids in the high school years. The special things that got two of my kids to the colleges they wanted didn’t emerge until high school (a regular but good public school).

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My math-and-science son hated his STEM school after a few months of his freshman year. We didn’t move him; he never changed his mind. The result is he has very few nice memories from those years, does not keep in touch with any single classmate and, despite the relative prestige of the STEM school, still wishes he could have transferred to the regular high school.

Yes, I do regret not listening to him. High school should be at least a little fun.

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I would say let her finish the year there and then let her go to her regular public school. Here’s the thing - she is telling you in no uncertain terms that she is unhappy. Why put her and yourself through 3 more years of hell? And hell it will be as there is nothing more relentless than an unhappy teenager.

Also, I think you are doing her no favors on the college front - a 3.0 to a 3.3 gap might limit her depending on where she see herself in 3 years. She will probably do much better grade wise at your local public school and be happier. Her prospects for college choices will likely be better.

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I definitely agree with much of what you guys are saying. It’s a STEM school with a Engineering, Math, or English focus, but yes still very much a STEM school even with that English focus she picked.

The biggest reason for her going there in the beginning was size only 440 kids, ratio is 10-12:1, totally digital, full access to a college library, less of a bad element, actually being challenged versus breezing to a 3.75gpa at the local high school.

There is no benefit as far as college admissions go and as many of you pointed out probably detrimental 3.0 vs 4.0, but there is little doubt she is learning infinitely more due to the challenges she faces. That seems to be her biggest irk is the workload and the challenges.

She wants to be a Veterinarian and as much as she can’t see math in that organic chemistry will kick her butt without a firm math background, but like others said hearing her say “Another crappy day at school dad!”

As far as Colleges nothing fancy probably Texas A&M or UT. Lastly, in the back of our mind is our oldest daughter who had a major spill in college and dropped out she now says things like “I wish you and mom would have pushed me harder and made me do more.” Granted we have extended her help time and time again and she still never went back, so her issues are much deeper than lack of being pushed.

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Kids who work that hard in high school often burn out before or during college. And they don’t have time to develop the authentic interests they might have had if they had more free time.

I know many families who were in this situation and the relief once the student was in regular public school was huge for parents and kid alike. That said, there are some who thrive in high pressure environments, so it does depend.

I know kids who graduated from pretty low quality high schools but got into Ivies. Their learning was not handed to them on a platter: they had to learn how to get it for themselves. And they had deep interests in things like music or theater that made high school enjoyable and most likely helped with admissions.

But the real point was to live the high school years without too much focus on college admissions or “having a leg up.”

Getting an associate’s degree while in high school may save money but they will miss out on entering college as freshmen and will be out of sync developmentally. What is the rush? And will they be mature enough to decide on a major or career direction?

Please consider alternatives to the STEM school for an unhappy student. Perhaps the younger sibling will be happy there. You have to go with each individual kid if the logistics are possible for your family I think.

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Good posts btw!!

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Guess you know by now that all kids are different. Listen to your daughters. Both of them.
The first wants out and isn’t interested in math or science. Why a stem school? She doesn’t want engineering. There is more to academics (and life) than math and science. She’s obviously smart but doesn’t have the interest to carry her through. What does she see herself doing as a career? No, just where do her interests lie? What are the alternative schools? Any good options?

The second daughter wants to go to that school and appears to have the interest. Go for it. Might be great for her. Don’t compare kids.

Workload–True that a new workload can be tough and take someone time to adjust. And grades and attitude may come up with time. You’ll have to figure that balance. The leg up for college can be just getting used to the workload. College may seem a piece of cake afterwards.

Don’t get caught up in having an associate’s degree upon graduation. It’s a double edged sword. You can end up as transfer student status, too young to actually take professional exams, too young to enter some programs which want older applicants, too young to know what you want and no time to figure it out. For it to work a student has to be very focused from the beginning on a specific career path. And even then being the youngest in a college class is VERY hard both academically and especially socially.

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What the heck is she doing at a STEM school when she has little interest in STEM?

Would YOU want to be forced into a Performing Arts high school if you had little talent/interests in those??

this is sounding kind of Tiger Parentish.

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If you’re not careful, you won’t be “ScaredDad,” you will become “YouRuinedMyLifeDad”.


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Lastly, in the back of our mind is our oldest daughter who had a major spill in college and dropped out she now says things like "I wish you and mom would have pushed me harder and made me do more." Granted we have extended her help time and time again and she still never went back, so her issues are much deeper than lack of being pushed.

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that is just talk from older D…she likely has deeper issues that have little/nothing to do with being pushed or not. It’s easy for her to now say that she wished she had been pushed. In reality, it probably would have made little difference…or would have had a worse result.

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I think it is important to take each daughter’s case individually and not let your decision for one influence the other. They are different individuals after all. If one daughter thinks the science oriented school is not for her, it doesn’t mean another student with different interests will think the same way

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I would let her switch now at the half way point of her freshman year. Why continue on at all if you know you are going to make the change? The sooner she starts making friends and fitting in at her new school, the better.

As for being a Vet…she’s in 9th grade so the odds of this truly being her career choice are very slim. It will all work out in the end, it always does.

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She has to be able to find her place there…an anchor that she can identify with. Club, new interest, music, sports, dance, a focus on some subject that she does like…You can get through tough academics if there is something you like, but without that, it ain’t gonna work.

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There are only 3 options a rreligiousbased school with horrible reviews, the local high school that rates poor to average, and a STEM school. She interview and was excited we all were and she loved it until November.

Now the workload is getting to her…we very well my let her go to the local high school I was just asking for input.

Fwiw she loves tech, robotics, English, and hates math, this wasn’t forced at all, but yes she isn’t loving it now.

Her mom’s retort has been what if she goes to the slummy regular high school and hates it too then what?

Entering the school was never about saving $$ whoever said that. It was about being pushed vs breezing through.

Thanks for the input :slight_smile:

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Sorry many mistakes replying through my phone!!