<p>I know you can transfer into Kelley after the first year (or is it possible to do it even after hte first semester?) but is it possible to transfer into the honors program? Or get any money or something like that? What kind of GPA would I have to get? </p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>If you weren't invited, but you think you would be a good candidate, you can petition for acceptance now.</p>
<p>Otherwise, you need a 3.7 GPA once you start taking classes, and you apply after either the first semester or first year. (You must have taken 14 units or more to apply).</p>
<p>Here's the website link:</p>
<p>Information</a> for Prospective Students</p>
<p>In general, you want to apply as soon as possible, since if you want to get the "general honors" designation on your diploma, you need to take 5 honors courses once you are in the honors program. </p>
<p>For the "business honors" designation, you have to take 5 "honors version" of business courses prior to entering the I-Core program (which is taken during the junior year), and then you have to also take a special course in your senior year. Obviously, for this you should try to get into the business school (and into the Mitte honors program at the Kelley school) as quickly as possible so you have enough time to get in the five business honors courses during the remaining semesters in the freshman and sophomore years.</p>
<p>Most of the honors courses needed to meet both programs can be the same--but the key is to get into the program early (so you have time to take the honors courses required during those first two years). </p>
<p>Have I said that the key is to apply and get in early?--sorry to keep repeating this, but I can't overstate how important this is--since there essentially is no possible way to get either of the honors designation if you don't get the necessary grades and also apply by the end of the freshman year.</p>
<p>Also, it used to take only a 3.6 GPA to get in, but that went up to a 3.7 GPA at the beginning of this year.</p>
<p>One last thing: they don't do any rounding of your GPA--so don't expect a 3.68 or 3.69 GPA to get you in, and it's the overall GPA that counts--not a particular semester's GPA. It's 3.7 minimum--and there are no exceptions.</p>
<p>NOTE: The following is a personal rant, so feel free to skip it if all you wanted was to get the info on acceptance to the honors program.</p>
<p>Don't get me started on the ridiculousness of the way the Hutton Honors and Mitte Honors programs are structured at Indiana University. They are entirely set up (in my view) to enable those who were honors students in high school to get honors designation in college, while ignoring those who were not honors students in high school, but who do well in college. Also, the honors courses are restricted--and do provide for easier grading that the regular courses (they specifically pick the easier grading professors--the higher grades are not just because the students are better). Thus, if you come in as an honors student you will be more likely to achieve the GPA you need to stay--but if you don't, you have to fight your way through the tougher professors in order to get into the honors program. </p>
<p>Also, I don't understand why they make it impossible to get the honors designations if you weren't accepted into the programs by the end of the freshman year of college. Most colleges look at your sophomore, junior, and senior years of high schools to determine if you should be accepted into their college. Indiana University at Bloomington does the same when it comes to admissions, but then does just the opposite in determining ability to get honors at the college. Most colleges allow honors to be based upon taking tougher courses open to everyone and getting a high GPA during all four years spent at the college--but not Indiana. They close you out if you didn't do well in high school or in your freshman year at college. This is just a ludicrous approach in my view. I know of no other college where the courses you need for honors have to be taken by the end of the sophomore year.</p>
<p>To be blunt, it is actually easier for someone with a 3.60 to 3.69 GPA at the end of their freshman year at Indiana University to transfer to a business program at a college like Michigan, Virginia, North Carolina, Georgetown, USC or NYU, get worse grades, but still achieve an overall 3.5 GPA and get an honors designation than it would be for that same person to stay at Indiana and get an honors designation in one of the two honors programs mentioned, even if the person were to get a 4.0 GPA in all of their remaining classes at Indiana during the remaining 3 years. </p>
<p>That's right--you could end up with a 3.9+ GPA, but have a ZERO chance at an honors designation. Sad, but true.</p>
<p>The thing is, I go to a the #28 ranked HS in the nation, and we have #1 national and international rankings in A LOT of categories. People here go to Harvard, stanford, MIT, Upenn, etc. and come back saying that Troy is harder than their third year of college there. Every textbook here is college edition, even for non honors classes.</p>
<p>So yah, everyone gets slaughtered. I'm not gonna win any petition hahaha. Any suggestions or strategies?</p>
<p>I think IU uses honors college and direct admit programs the same way they use the automatic merit scholarships-- as tools to recruit high achieving high school students. These initiatives help almost guarantee IU a nucleus of talented students for the College of Arts and Sciences and Kelley, and you can't have good programs without good students, especially when entrance to IU is relatively easy and you are trying to improve the rankings of Kelley and trying to get some of the undergraduate liberal arts programs on par with IU's generally highly rated graduate programs. </p>
<p>Looking at it from the recruitment angle, IU can take the attitude that freshmen don't need to be recruited, because they are already at IU and transferring can be a real pain. So they probably feel like they won't lose any students at IU who are upset because they can't get into honors college. </p>
<p>This might be like the type of two-track system that huge state schools are often criticized for, where honors type programs have smaller classes, more interesting and easy grading professors, and more opportunities and special treatment for the honors students. It's bad for undergraduates who are doing well but have little chance to get into honors college, but then again, a lot of direct admits to honors college have already had lots of advantages all through high school relative to a lot of students, in that they probably come from families with relatively high incomes, better schools, and way more opportunities to take AP courses in high school and earn college credit for classes that can be real gpa killers at IU (W131, econ 201-202, math 118-119, etc.). </p>
<p>Some of the specialized programs at Kelly require completing tons of tough courses very early, and if you are not bogged down having to take some of the basic freshmen courses, then you have a better chance of taking advantage of these programs. And I think the sophomore block at Kelley is restricted to direct admits, since it involves taking business honors courses very early (first semester of the sophomore year). </p>
<p>I saw an online resume for a finance major in one of the special programs who had thirty-two hours of college credit before even getting to IU. So, really, a lot of these high quality programs are logistically tough to do for even students who had excellent high school and SAT grades (but little or no college credit) before coming to IU. You can still get into many of the special programs, but obtaining all the prerequisites can be daunting, especially if it leads to having to graduate in 4 1/2 or five years or requires lots of summer school. And most of IU's merit scholarships at IU are limited to eight semesters, which can be a big financial reason for not pursuing special programs even if you have the ability.</p>
<p>I think bthomp1 is exactly right in his analysis. </p>
<p>IU probably is using this as a recruiting tool--the same as they seem to be doing with the improvement of their in-state scholarships. I'm guessing this is in response to the Indiana legislature's request that the school recruit more of the high GPA in-state students, rather than allowing them to leave for out-of-state Ivies or other "elite" schools.</p>
<p>Of course, one works to improve what one is measured on. Since the IU system and Bloomington in particular are being judged on attracting high GPA students from in-state, all the new programs are geared to this. In the meantime, there seem to be no measurements relative to keeping students who are high-performing after having already been admitted to the schools.</p>
<p>I agree with you that for those students who are "frozen out" of the honors program, transferring can be a pain, especially if the student is from in-state and getting a good scholarship to cover their costs at Indiana. For those out-of-state students that fall into this category, however, IU's honors policy makes transferring look more attractive than I think the administration realizes.</p>
<p>P.S. One other thing I forgot to mention is that while it takes a 3.7 GPA your first year in order to get accepted into the Hutton Honors college, it is only required that you finish with a 3.4 GPA overall at Indiana University in order to graduate with the "general honors" designation. Thus, as I pointed out earlier, a student who did 3.69 first year and finished with a 3.9+ GPA overall would be denied the honors designation, while someone who had a 3.70 first year and finishes with a 3.4 GPA will get the honors designation.</p>