<p>What does being in an Honors Program mean for the MT kids?? Isn't the MT curriculum so intense that they wouldn't really have much extra time for honors college stuff, or leadership stuff, or....... Would appreciate input from MT students who have been in the Honors program at any school (or parents who can speak to this too!!). Thanks!</p>
<p>I’m in the honors program at CCU. They have been extremely understanding and willing to work with me (and the other theatre students in the honors program) to accommodate our busy schedules. I am required to take one honors class a semester- almost all of which have ended up being theatre classes. All that was required was that I fill out a form they provided after working with my professor to come up with the extra requirements and assignments that could both extend my learning and… make it worthy of being an ‘honors’ class. Theatre classes are especially fun for this- video projects, interviewing industry professionals, etc. I will have to take honors capstone 1 but since it is a “self-built” class of sorts, it will be a theatre related project (hoping to direct and put on a play, possibly one I wrote) and then my musical theatre capstone class will sub for honors capstone 2.</p>
<p>It’s tough, but I would assume a lot of schools are as willing to help as CCU is. If you can make it work and have the dedication, it’s very worth it. Typing from my honors computer as we speak, and it opens up a lot of great opportunities for students. It’s true that most of them I haven’t been able to take advantage of due to the theatre, but my time at college isn’t over yet!</p>
<p>My D was in the Honors College at Syracuse. There were several difficulties: Because of her intense BFA schedule, she could only schedule honors classes that met on Monday evenings – the only time she had free. She did manage to take some interesting classes for a few years. However, the BFA program at Syracuse offers students the Tepper Semester during senior year – a chance to live and study in NYC for the final semester. This was one of the main reasons my D chose Syracuse, and it made it impossible for her to do a senior honors project; so sadly, she was not able to complete the honors course of study.</p>
<p>At Ball State, we have to do a core curriculum for any major at the university, and being in the honors college for the BFA majors (or really anyone else) means that their core classes are mainly through the Honors College. It doesn’t seem like too big of a commitment in any standard, as there are many Musical Theatre majors who are also in the Honors College!</p>
<p>This doesn’t directly address your question since it doesn’t involve a BFA, but another approach is to opt for MT training from an academically rigorous school like Northwestern or Yale, so that EVERY class will be at an Honors-plus level. This approach allows far more scheduling flexibility and a much wider menu of course options, and may have more value post-graduation than most Honors programs. D has built a very BFA-like MT curriculum every quarter at Northwestern, while also pursuing an academically-rigorous double major. </p>
<p>This has been the perfect choice for D and for many of her friends who are also VERY serious about becoming professional MTs.</p>
<p>PM me for specifics on Honors at Pace and Rider. Son at Pace is required to do Honors as condition of his merit scholarship. Quite a few of his fellow MTs are in the same boat. Son at Rider is doing it by choice and enjoys the smaller classes.</p>
<p>Well- I thought I could bite my tongue but post #5 infuriates me! The original question asked about being able to participate in the honors program as a BFA. It didn’t ask about a non-BFA program so this wasn’t a chance to brag once again about Northwestern. (We get it!) What the hell is BFA-like? When you graduate with a BA program- that’s what your diploma will say! Also, colleges are academically rigorous-how can you even compare the schools and classes- where’s the proof? Have you looked at the curriculum or talked to students at other schools? I can think of Ivy league schools that don’t have great theatre programs and schools that are “easier” to get into with very rigorous theatre programs. I’m glad your daughter and her friends have found a school where they are VERY serious about becoming professional MTs but guess what- so has my son (for acting) and many of his friends (Acting and MT) who are pursuing their education in an international city with tremendous theatre and with a BFA- and no- there is no time to be in an honors program! Also- how can you put a value post graduation? There are many actors who didn’t even go to college and are nominated for Academy Awards and other awards and are millionaires. We all know that Northwestern is a great school but most of the people on this board will not even get in- even with great scholastics and talent. People choose colleges for so many reasons. My daughter had a professor this year who also teaches at Yale. He would commute from the Chicago area to Yale during the semester. This happens a lot at other schools. I could go on but I won’t! I’m sure you mean well but you just don’t get how you come off.</p>
<p>Picking up on the last few posts…keep in mind there is a wide array of colleges and types of curricula out there for MT. At some BFA programs, there is a significant amount of liberal arts, and at others, less so. Also, at a few BFA programs, such as at NYU, you CAN double major if you wish. Further, a few BFA programs are located in pretty selective universities and so offer a certain “level” of academics (which my D happened to prefer)…such as NYU or UMich. However, there are a lot of fine BFA programs that are very competitive and rigorous, but are located within much less selective universities (ie., Pace, Coastal Carolina, Ithaca) and my daughter, who ONLY wanted a BFA, not a BA, realized you have to go where the good BFA programs are located. So, in that regard, for someone who is a very good student and who prefers more academic rigor, and wants to attend a well regarded BFA program, doing an Honors Program at that college can be just the ticket. I recall when my D applied to Emerson, she applied to the Honors program for this reason, since she prefers academic challenge.</p>
<p>But back to the original issue…my D went to NYU/Tisch. NYU doesn’t have an Honors Program, though NYU is pretty selective academically. However, when my D was admitted to NYU/Tisch, she was also chosen to be what was called a “Tisch Scholar,” but this is no longer offered at NYU (and she did not apply for it and had never even heard of it until she got the letter about it). It is not quite like the Honors programs being discussed here in that it did not involve different courses. Rather, students were chosen, in part, for their leadership in the arts. The group met every other Friday night and there were various presentations and they attended arts events in the city and had discussions and so on. As well, the Scholars had to participate in some sort of service in the arts in NYC of their own choosing. Lastly, they also went on two trips. One was to Appalachia to work in an artists colony and the other was to a foreign country to also work with those in the arts and my D’s trip for that was an amazing trip to Brazil. I recall in her sophomore year, the service project she worked on was creating a show on campus that the various scholars all had created different original things to be in it (some Tischies are studying film, some dance, some drama, etc.). My D wrote a mini musical that was put on as part of this show and she went on later in college and in her career to write other original works and so she got a lot out of it. But in terms of added commitments, yes, it was difficult because the Friday night Scholars would often conflict with rehearsals when she was in a musical production. Also, my D was in an a capella group and had to fit that in too. Still, being part of Tisch Scholars was an enriching experience. It is too bad the program no longer exists now that she is out of college.</p>
<p>@supportive – Wow - I guess I really should have stayed off the computer yesterday, as apparently I was unintentionally extremely offensive, in spite of being a nice person in real life. Maybe posting after spending two days filling out irritating financial aid forms is a bad idea. </p>
<p>I do NOT NOT NOT ever post to “brag” about Northwestern!!! I know LOTS of kids who chose BFA programs and had the academic stats to get into any school in the world and have said so often. OTOH, being in an auditioned program does not automatically make BFA kids more talented than those in BAs as is often implied here. All of this has been said before but somehow is perpetually in question. </p>
<p>I get it, okay, and have said so so many times I don’t know how to make myself more clear.</p>
<p>The ONLY reason I posted here is that the OP was, I assumed, interested in options for providing academic challenge to a kid who wants to study MT and there are options that don’t involve a BFA or an Honors program.</p>
<p>I also think that NYU and NU have much in common, and know that BFAs and BAs are on a continuum both of academic rigor and curricular focus on Theatre, so when I compare the BA our D is in to BFAs there will always be varying levels of difference, and those at NYU will often (and correctly) see the differences as slight.</p>
<p>supportive, I’m sorry you were infuriated by MomCares’ post, but I have to say as someone outside the conversation that it didn’t feel like she was ‘bragging.’ </p>
<p>I read her posts on Northwestern as someone who is very excited about a program that can be under the radar for some folks. Yes, I know Northwestern is well known - NOW. But when we were applying, it was under the radar for us, even though my D was my second child applying for a theatre major. I saw the OP’s question as well as wondering if you could study theatre AND do honors, and I saw MomCares’ response as another option. I myself would have been interested in her response. I know my own D applied to Northwestern on a whim–we had NO idea how amazing the program was. Before MomCares, I hardly ever read anything about it here on the MT or theatre/drama posts. </p>
<p>I know I myself can post when I’m crabby about other things, or stressed, or not myself. I think if I can say so, that we should cut each other some slack and assume the best rather than the worst. I really value everyone’s posts, supportive’s MomCares, everyone’s. I have learned so much from threads and comments here on CC and honestly both of my D’s would not be where they are today without CC.</p>
<p>Connections, you are aptly named, building bridges here between CC members who all are seeking the best programs and eager to share from our own experiences what we’ve learned along the way. :)</p>
<p>Northwestern indeed is a great option for the kind of student who wants an academically rigorous college, prefers a BA, but also wants to focus on MT. I have worked with some students who have chosen NU for that very reason. And I know a few of my D’s peers who chose Yale, for example, for that reason. </p>
<p>Be that as it may, there are some kids, like my own D, who only want a BFA degree program. For my D, I didn’t see her degree as vocational training, but rather she obtained a college degree, became educated (had to take a decent amount of liberal arts and theater studies courses at NYU), got professional level training in her field of interest, and yet is prepared to do many things with the degree and is not limited by having attended a BFA degree school. But as I wrote, my D did prefer a more academically challenging environment and that is ONE reason that NYU appealed to my D since some of the other excellent BFA programs are in less academically selective colleges (but here is where an Honors Program could help make that work for someone who really wants a BFA program). But finding the best fit BFA program was where it was at for my daughter and she did not consider any BA schools. Also, she did not care about double majors and had no intentions of doing one (though it can be done at the school she landed at). I’m not touting this choice, but simply saying there are many ways to piece together your individual college/program selection criteria and to find what is a good fit.</p>
<p>Again - sorry to have ignited controversy… NOT my intent!</p>
<p>@soozievt - I agree with most of what you said above but wanted to clarify one small detail.</p>
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<p>The only thing I would change in this sentence, based on knowing a bit about the specific kids in the NU MT program is “prefers a BA”. Most, though not all, NU MTs also applied to BFAs and as far as I know nearly all who went through the audition process were also admitted to some great MT BFAs, so the dividing line at NU between “prefers BFA/BA” is certainly not a sharp one for most students.</p>
<p>I actually asked momcares a lot of detailed questions about NU’s program outside of CC and it was absolutely one of the schools that my daughter applied to and could easily have chosen to attend. I think NU is somewhat unique among BA theatre programs if for no other reason than the access to large number and variety of performance classes. It is possible at NU to actually take virtually as many classes in-major as students do at some BFA programs (I think including NYU’s program) if that is what you decide to do. You can also do less in order to make way for study in other areas, or a second major or more study abroad etc. The flexibility is kind of cool and from what I gather, momcare’s daughter is going heavy on the performance classes which is one end of the spectrum.</p>
<p>I do not know many other BA theatre or MT programs that offer as extensive array of performance coursework that would allow you to load performance classes as heavily into the mix during your 4 years. There may be more but the only other one that I found at the time was UCLA and that was after the 1st year. I found some schools that had both BFA and BA tracks had those classes, but for the most part you couldn’t access those classes unless you were part of the BFA track. </p>
<p>I think it is safe to say that the majority of people that at least comment on this forum are looking for performance heavy programs. I’m convinced that as far as BA programs go, NU is absolutely able to offer that very much in line with a BFA program at a major university. I don’t know that you can say that about every BA program (well I know you can’t) but I think at NU, that is the case which is why it did make it into my daughter’s list last year because she wanted plenty of theatre classes to choose from for all 4 years and a strong academic environment. There are many ways to skin the cat. Now getting into NU or many other of these highly competitive academic schools and/or MT programs whole other problem.</p>
<p>Sorry all! I tend to be a very direct person who doesn’t beat around the bush. I also know that sometimes I can come off very brash and that the written word doesn’t always convey my true meaning. I still stand by what I believe but will apologize for the way I phrased it. I agree with what everyone has posted since my post so no need to go on! I was not crabby or in a bad mood when I wrote my post but I appreciate you all putting it in perspective for me. We all interpret things differently and I only saw my interpretation when I re-read the post! Thanks! :)</p>
<p>@supportive - I think I may have been the one who was crabby when I phrased not one but two posts poorly yesterday. I’ve concluded that filling out piles of financial paperwork must not be compatible with expressing myself well on the internet.</p>
<p>I get it! Kumbaya!</p>
<p>Whew! I’m so glad everyone is friends again! </p>
<p>Oh yeah, and while we’re talking about honors colleges, etc. I just thought I’d mention Fordham, also a BA program, but an auditioned BA with serious theater majors. I think the difference between Fordham and NU (besides NU’s elite reputation) is that Fordham has an academic core that isn’t possible to deviate from. My daughter just finished her first semester-- she had 19 credits. This semester I’m not sure if she has 18 or 19 but she’s got 3 theater courses, an academic course that is about theater texts, and her required language course. She will need to take math and science courses, and other distributional core requirements, in addition to her theater classes, to graduate. Not much room for electives, but a solid liberal arts education. If she’d been stronger in languages and could have placed into the exit level course (she chose to restart with a new language) she would have had a bit more wiggle room. Her academic courses have been rigorous so far (not sure if that is universally the case.) In all, I would say this program is worth looking into for someone who wants an auditioned BFA-like program that offers serious academics.</p>
<p>I think the OP was asking if being in Honors was ever a problem for the theater kids who have such crazy intense schedules with rehearsals, etc. Some schools tie Honors in with major perks including huge amounts of money, but not all do. I want my child to be challenged, but also want her to sleep, so it really is a good question whether some of these honors programs mesh well with a particular school’s theater performance major’s requirements. Reading people’s experience with this is very helpful.</p>
<p>Yes, Calliene, that is exactly what I meant. I posted the original post in this thread but perhpas I could have been more clear in my wording! 
All the perks that go along with being in the Honors College at many of these schools sound great, but what does it look like in reality for these kids? Like you said, they need to have time to sleep too!! And some down time just to be an 18 year-old!</p>