Hooks for the Ivies

Parents Forum
41

<p>Clearly, Harvard has some prevet students. Check out the 2 listings here in the Career office site: <a href="http://www.ocs.fas.harvard.edu/publications/ocsnews_archive/12_3_04ocsnews.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ocs.fas.harvard.edu/publications/ocsnews_archive/12_3_04ocsnews.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Note that the North Carolina State vet school (which the career office said is #1 inthe country) recruited at Harvard and had dinner with the students. There's an e-mail, too, for the Harvard preveterinary society. Also note that the Harvard med school has veterinarians on staff. Perhaps you could do research there such as your senior research under their help or perhaps you could take a class with them.</p>

<p>As long as you can find a Harvard professor who's willing to teach you, you can do an independent study at Harvard in any class that you choose to create, and that's a very wide field.</p>

<p>The kind of info that I just found for you is the kind of research to do in checking out whether a college is appropriate for you. When you write your essays and have interviews related to the college, also show the college that you have done this kind of careful research. For instance, when asked during the interview about why you applied to Harvard, you could explain how you are aware of the Harvard preveterinary society and if you have taken the additional step of contacting that society -- you could provide specifics about how the society could help you reach your career goal, and what the society has told you about how Harvard can prep you for your career objectives.</p>

<p>This is the kind of attention to detail that makes students' applications stand out. Too many students treat applicantions to places like Harvard like they are simply shots in the dark. The more thought and research one puts into one's application, the higher one's chances, including of finding a college that matches one's needs.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
The single most important thing is to make sure you are a resident of a
state that has a vet school or a state that has a contract with another vet school to accept students. Veterinary schools almost all limit enrollment to students in one of these two situations. </p>

<p>The problem with veterinary school admission is this -- veterinary schools do more than just give preference to students from their state, most of them limit admission to students from their own state OR students from states that make a contract with a veterinary school to admit a certain number of students from that state. It isn't possible to get into the school if you do not fit one of those criteria.
<a href="http://www.vetinfo.com/vetschol.html%5B/url%5D%5B/quote%5D"&gt;http://www.vetinfo.com/vetschol.html

[/quote]
</a></p>

<p>From some quick web searches, you may be better off staying in state until you get your vet degree.</p>

<p>Veterinary Schools </p>

<p>The College of Veterinary Medicine 217 Goodwin Student Center Auburn University Auburn, AL 36849-5517 Phone: (334) 844-2685 </p>

<p>School of Veterinary Medicine University of California, Davis, CA 95616 Phone: (916) 752-1383 Fax: (916) 752-2801 </p>

<p>College of Veterinary Medicine and Biomedical Sciences Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 Phone: (303) 491-7051 </p>

<p>College of Veterinary Medicine S1 006 Schurman Hall Cornell University Ithaca, NY 14853-6401 Phone: (607) 253-3700 </p>

<p>College of Veterinary Medicine Box 100125, 2015 SW 16th Avenue University of Florida Gainesville, FL 32610-0125 Phone: (904) 392-4700, ext. 5300 Fax: (904) 392-8351 </p>

<p>College of Veterinary Medicine The University of Georgia, Athens, GA 30602-7372 ,Phone: (706) 542-5728 </p>

<p>College of Veterinary Medicine University of Illinois, Urbana Champaign Urbana, IL 61801 Phone:(217)333-1192 </p>

<p>College of Veterinary Medicine Iowa State University Ames, IA 50011-1250 Phone: (515) 294-1242 </p>

<p>College of Veterinary Medicine Kansas State University 1700 Denison Avenue Manhattan, KS 66506-5601 Phone: (913) 532-5660 FAX: (913) 532-5884 </p>

<p>School of Veterinary Medicine Louisiana State University Baton Rouge, LA 70803-8402 Phone: (504) 346-3155 </p>

<p>College of Veterinary Medicine A-126 East Fee Hall Michigan State University East Lansing, Michigan 48824-1314 Phone: (517) 355-9793 Fax: (517) 432-2391 </p>

<p>College of Veterinary Medicine, 460 VTH 1365 Gortner Avenue University of Minnesota St. Paul, MN 55108 Phone: (612) 624-4747 </p>

<p>College of Veterinary Medicine Box 9825 Mississippi State University Starkville, MS 39762-9825 Phone: (601) 325-1129 </p>

<p>University of Missouri College of Veterinary Medicine W-203 Veterinary Medicine Columbia, MO 65211 Phone: (314)882-7011 </p>

<p>College of Veterinary Medicine 4700 Hillsborough Street North Carolina State University Raleigh, NC 27606 Phone: (919) 829-4205 Fax: (919) 829-4452 </p>

<p>College of Veterinary Medicine Ohio State University 0004 Veterinary Hospital 601 Vernon L. Tharp Street Columbus, OH 43210-1089 Phone: (614) 292-5995 </p>

<p>College of Veterinary Medicine Oklahoma State University Stillwater, OK 74078-0353 Phone: (405) 744-6653 Fax: (405) 744-6633 </p>

<p>College of Veterinary Medicine Oregon State University Corvallis, OR 97331-4801 Telephone: (503) 737-2098 </p>

<p>School of Veterinary Medicine University of Pennsylvania 3800 Spruce Street Philadelphia, PA 19104-6044 Phone: (215) 989-5434 FAX: (215) 573-8819 </p>

<p>School of Veterinary Medicine Purdue University West Lafayette, IN 47907-1240 Phone: (317) 494-7893 FAX: (317) 496-1261 </p>

<p>College of Veterinary Medicine P.O. Box 1071 University of Tennessee Knoxville, TN 37901-1071 Phone: (615) 974-7263 FAX: (615) 974-4773 </p>

<p>College of Veterinary Medicine Texas A&M University College Station, TX 77843 Phone: (409) 845-5051 </p>

<p>School of Veterinary Medicine Tufts University 200 Westborough Road North Grafton, MA 01536 Phone: (508) 839-7920 </p>

<p>Tuskegee University School of Veterinary Medicine Tuskegee, AL 36088 Phone: (205) 727-8460 </p>

<p>Virginia-Maryland Regional College of Veterinary Medicine Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University Blacksburg, VA 24061-0043 Phone: (540) 231-4699 </p>

<p>College of Veterinary Medicine Washington State University Pullman, WA 99164-7012 Phone: (509) 335-1532 </p>

<p>School of Veterinary Medicine University of Wisconsin-Madison 2015 Linden Drive West Madison, WI 53706 Phone: (608) 263-2525</p>

43

<p>UC Davis is the top vet school in the country.</p>

44

<p>Erin,
Unfortunately, I'll have to agree, overall, with interesteddad's & calmom's more realistic assessments among these posts. (That is, relative to where you stand right now at this moment.) HOWEVER, I think it's <em>fabulous</em> that you are beginning to think about the whole process -- "trying on," if you will, various possibilities. You will experience a sea-change in your outlook & your goals over the next 5 yrs. The <em>possible</em>/tentative goals you are considering & questioning now will aid in the longer process of clarifying what your eventual college desires will become, which may or may not include Harvard & other Ivies later. It is also possible that your academics will take a huge jump upward, & that those, combined with your essay(s), will make you quite attractive to one or several Ivies by early Sr. yr. (Not to imply that the academics are not great now, just that you might become truly stand-out in some academic or e.c. area over the next several yrs.) Your current self-reflection, discussions with others, & explorations will only help your college efforts.</p>

45

<p>Erin, there are a world of schools between Harvard and Purdue! having said that, your choices my be defined by your desire to go to vet school.
Look at Cornell, particularly you need to learn if you as an out of state student would even have a chance at vet school. Also look into LACs and smaller public Us in Indiana, Kentucky, Ohio and Illinois. They may not fulfill your wish to go far away, but they might well have a track record with the vet school at Purdue. You might want to contact the vet school directly, find out how many students they admit who are Indiana residents that went to college in another state, and a list of colleges that they attended.
I really think it will be much harder to go to vet school from a far out of state college, than from an in-state or neighboring school, not impossible, just more difficult.
One of my just graduated daughter's good friends is going to vet school in a neighboring state. He was accepted as a direct admit out of high school (in itself quite an accomplishment) to vet school as an out of state student. He will get his BS in biochemistry, I think, and go straight on into vet school if his grades, etc remain strong. This university is smaller than our land grant uni that is home to the vet school, and direct admit is not an option in our state. A very outstanding student with a demonstrated commitment to vet can do this (he had worked many hours in a vet's office, and had done research at he local med school)</p>

46

<p>Robin, I would be interested in the source for your comment. Rankings I have seen put Cornell in first place, although I have not checked recently. </p>

<p>In addition, Erin should know that she will need separately to gain admittance to Vet school, after I believe two years of study. </p>

<p>Northstarmom, it is not really correct to say that any part of Cornell is "public." The Agriculture and Life Sciences School (as are Human Ecology and Industrial and Labor Relations) are contract schools with the state of New York and receive some support but now have majority of students from out of state. Vet school also is in that same status. Other schools, Arts and Sciences, Engineering, Architecture, Art and Planning and Hotel are fully "private." Of all schools, if you can demonstrate interest, Hotel far the easiest to gain admittance. Architecture School as well is more dependent on interest, portfolio and ability than on raw scores. </p>

<p>Erin has a good shot at Ag school, which would be logical predecessor to Vet school. Valedictorian will count heavily and if she can get her SAT's into the 2000+ range, with 700 or so on math part, she should be in.</p>

47

<p>Concerning the out-of-state veterinary admissions issue. It is very possible to establish residency in the state where you attend college. As I posted above, that is why I left Texas for California -- at the time I had my sights set on UC Davis vet school, and the very first barrier I had to overcome was to turn myself into a Californian. It is also one reason I chose to live off campus after my first year, and to stay year-round in my college town - with an in-town address, I could register to vote locally, get a California driver's license, get a California summer job ... pretty much develop all the indicia of residency. The cool thing was that I was able to also establish residency for purposes of tuition. As also noted, I changed career goals too -- but my California residency paid off when I was able to attend law school at a UC campus for a pittance. </p>

<p>Changing residency for purpose of tuition reduction at a state university can be difficult - but it is not so hard for other purposes. Legally you can generally register to vote as soon as you have lived in a state for 30 days - even with on campus housing - though local registrars often give students a bad time about that. So basically, if you live in Indiana but are pretty sure that you want to go to vet school elsewhere - it is good planning to go to school in the state where you want to train. </p>

<p>I have another easy exercise to suggest for the Harvard (or anywhere else decision). Most colleges in their application forms have a "why" question, as in "Why do you want to attend Harvard". Before you apply anywhere, answer that question, but answer it without reference to the school's reputation, prestige, or ranking. Just make a list of the specific reasons you want to go to the school -- for each college you are considering. That will help sort out which schools are the best fit - and you may be surprised at which schools show up with the highest number of good reasons to choose them. </p>

<p>Also, do find out how easy or difficult it is to change majors once you are admitted to a college. Most colleges don't require the major to be formally declared until sometime in the sophomore year, but there are exceptions -- and it could be a big problem if you enter as pre-vet and later change your mind. Pre-vet and pre-med both have high drop out rates because of the difficulty of some of the required science courses. You might also want to check out how much a particular college uses those courses to weed out applicants -- that is, how many students actually survive organic chem. In a sense, that is one mistake I made choosing a UC campus -- my chem class with the 600 or so students crammed into a lecture hall and the labs run by a TA who spoke no English proved overwhelming. There might have been a better outcome in a different environment. I realized that when my son was at his LAC with about a dozen kids in his chemistry class, leading to him developing a very close friendship with his chem prof.</p>

48

<p>Well, I don't believe that Harvard particularly wants to attract more folks from ANYWHERE (except maybe Baghdad?) They got over the rural North Dakota thing a long time ago, and other than ensuring that a large percentage of the pool is going to pay full freight or have relatives who will give large donations, they probably ran out of categories they were particularly "looking for" a long time ago. </p>

<p>In our state, there is one large Vet School - Washington State. Last time I looked it was much more difficult to get into than UW School of Medicine. Almost the entire class comes from within state (regardless of where they did their undergraduate studies); and, I'm told, most had extensive backgrounds in animal studies of one kind or another. A substantial portion go through the WSU Pre-Vet program or their special 7-year program, and are either zoology or animal studies majors. </p>

<p>If you want to really stand out as an applicant, it is easier to do so as a top-flight candidate at a state school, where you are showered with research opportunities if you are truly at the top of the pack, than as a middling applicant from one of the "prestige" schools. If my d. wanted to be a diplomat, or an archaelogist, or a mathematician, I'd surely have her consider Harvard; if she really knew she wanted to be a veterinarian, I would think there are several dozen better alternatives, and whether she could get into H. or not would be wholly irrelevant.</p>

<p>(But you're not going to get into Harvard anyway. I can say that with 95% certainty, without even seeing ANY of your stats. It has nothing really to do with you. If you are a public school candidate with any financial need, not a legacy, or a URM, and no relative likely to fork over big bucks, you are 95% certain not to get in. That's just the way it is. You can always hope, of course, but I wouldn't spend a lot of time on it.)</p>

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<br>

<p>In my experience, a Zoology major is okay, but an Animal Science major is better. Animal Science deals with domestic animals - the same population that makes up a veterinarian's patients. Zoology deals with wild animals - which are not really the focus of veterinary practice except in zoos.</p>

50

<p>My opinion? for what's its worth, Erin's writing is so good that i think she has a good chance at Harvard. She appears to be articulate, thoughtful, realistic, able to challenge the best of the parental bunch here with many plausible reasons and justifications for her applying to HArvard. I think she should go for it!!!!! My S with better SAT's and phenon EC's went to Harvard but could not articulate as well as she....and stayed in his room studying for four years there. What is my point??? I think that HArvard is trying to achieve a balance between the nerdy studying types and those like ERIN who I am sure will add something to the Harvard community. If mthey were all like my S, Harvard would not have ANY social or extra-curricular life!!! There would be NO community. Now getting financial aid...that might be difficult though they say HArvard is NEED blind.</p>

51

<p>"My S with better SAT's and phenon EC's went to Harvard but could not articulate as well as she..."</p>

<p>HHmmmm....Although you did bash him a little later on, sgiovinc1 you gotta sort of made your son superior to Erin.</p>

52

<p>I still haven't heard a reason why Erin-Michelle thinks Harvard would be a good fit for her?</p>

<p>It may or may not be, in either case for specific reasons.</p>

53

<p>Is it for the prestige??</p>

54

<p>Maybe I did make my S superior..the bashing was not intentional..just a matter of fact. The Harvard kids are brainy and think learning is fun and an art form. And what is wrong with prestige????? So far, every job my S has applied for he has gotten in the corporate world. Not so in the academic world! Isn't that interesting because I thought the corporate world was really not for him!!! The HARVARD degree goes a long long way. It is money well spent!!! By the way, I many times eat my words when it comes to my S. Our children are always full of surprises....</p>

55

<p>"They got over the rural North Dakota thing a long time ago, and other than ensuring that a large percentage of the pool is going to pay full freight or have relatives who will give large donations, they probably ran out of categories they were particularly "looking for" a long time ago. "</p>

<p>Not true. I'm an alum interviewer for Harvard and have gone in recent years to presentations by the Harvard admissions staff, including the dean of admissions. Among categories that are hard to fill are finding qualified students from rural areas, inner cities, underrepresented states, low income students, first generation college students, and URS. </p>

<p>What helps Harvard find students representing those categories is the extensive mailings that Harvard does such as the one that the OP received. This causes many qualified students to apply who would not normally have considered Harvard. As always, the odds of admission are long, but some of those students get in.</p>

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<p>"Among categories that are hard to fill are... low income students...,"</p>

<p>Well, then they're obviously not looking very hard (even relative to their peers....) ;)</p>

57

<p>You know, my kid was a totally unhooked white male from an indifferent public school in New Jersey. I'm sure I'd've been told he had zippo chance of getting into Columbia if I'd asked here.</p>

<p>Sure glad I didn't.</p>

<p>Erin--no one has a good chance of getting into Harvard, and I don't know if it's the best school for you or not , but I'm pretty sure that Mini has no idea what the acceptance stats are for 4-H kids from Indiana. Northstarmom knows far more about Harvard admissions than most of the "experts" on this thread. Research well, find some schools of different levels of difficulty of admission, write great essays and focus your applications to showcase yourself as clearly as possible, and then if one of those applications is to Harvard, why not?</p>

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<p>Hey Northstarmom, does Harvard give any preference to Muslim students?</p>

59

<p>They actually are looking very hard for low income students.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>It is very hard to find low income students with the background to be able to handle Harvard's academics. Harvard will not accept any student who lacks the academic background to succeed. Thus, in general the minimum SATs are 1200 (old scale). Students also need to have taken a tough enough academic curriculum to be able to handle the coursework. The problem is, however, most low income students go to horrendous schools, and therefore lack the academic prep to go to Harvard.</p></li>
<li><p>Even when they get solicitation letters from Harvard, qualified low income students tend not to apply. They don't know that much about the college process, may have GCs who discourage them, may have parents who would prefer that the students live at home and go to whatever college is nearby. In addition, the students may be wary about going to a college that many view as a rich kid's school, and they may jump to the conclusion that they can't afford Harvard (not realizing that Harvard's financial aid is some of the country's best).</p></li>
<li><p>Even if they apply and are accepted with excellent financial aid, they still may decide to live at home and go to college nearby or follow their peers to a popular in-state university or to a college with a high URM population (if they are URM).</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>I am not aware of any preference for Harvard for Muslim students because I simply don't know if they have a hard time attracting qualified Muslim students. Harvard, however, wants to build classes with all kinds of diversity, including religious diversity so if there's a shortage of Muslim applicants, being Muslim could be a plus.</p>