<p>ok, then is being a muslim with parents making less that 30,000/year combined a plus.</p>
<p>Sorry to be ignorant, but this information can be really helpful to me.</p>
<p>Assuming that you are a US citizen, being low income and of any race/religion etc. is a plus when applying to Harvard. </p>
<p>When it comes to internationals, I doubt that one's income level matters when it comes to admissions.</p>
<p>This outpouring of advice has been wonderful and extremely informative. Sorry for my lack of postings...I parted with all four of my impacted wisdom teeth at about 9:30 this morning and spent all day yesterday preparing for my incapacitation. I must say, I do make a very cute chipmunk...of course, I'm not being conceited or anything! :D</p>
<p>Interesteddad, I very nearly posted a rather long explanation of my EC's and various other ramblings which included in interest in Harvard, but I was stopped short when certain people reminded me that that was not my original intention; I did not start a "humor me"/"tell me I have more of a chance than I do" thread :) And although this has somewhat gotten away from my original question, it has been in a very beneficial form (for me) and I deeply appreciate all of the thoughts from everyone.</p>
<p>Anyway, when I finally select one and go to college, I intend to declare a major that will not be "pre-anything" or a major that will lock me into a particular career (like animal science). I learned that from my older sister Katie, who also wanted to be a vet. Katie went to Purdue and majored in biochemistry; as time went by, she realized that she no longer wanted to become a veterinarian. My sister went on to work for the Chemistry Departmen Chairman at U. Chicago; Purdue, Northwestern, and U. Chicago were competing over her when she decided to earn her Ph.D. I apologize for rambling, but my point is that she chose a major that she was interested by that also left countless opportunities open to her. </p>
<p>My interest in Harvard lies in my knowledge that they are involved in stem cell research and the genome research, both of which fascinate me. Who knows? I may change my mind, too, with the influence of a school with Harvard-sized resources. Again, I am not deadset on Harvard; as many have pointed out, I do need to be realistic. </p>
<p>Let these things be known:
My family is not low-income exactly, but I live in a single-parent family (w/ mom) with three younger sibs, ages 11, 12, & 16. Child support is pitiful, and my father essentially discourages EVERYTHING I do and aspire to be.
I may have also unintentionally created a sense that I live out in the sticks, and for that I apologize; not everyone is familiar with Muncie, but I think that about 20,000 people live in and around it. However, transportation was an issue until I earned my license last year, and even then and now, I have an obligation to stay home and supervise my siblings when my mom travels, which is quite frequently. So, I am not rural-rural, but as was mentioned, Muncie doesn't hold a candle to NYC. :)
Both my mother and father are very well educated (Michigan State & City University of NY, Baruch College and U. of Michigan, respectively); Mom is a CPA, and Dad is an actuary. Both have the equivalent of a Masters degree in their fields.</p>
<p>sgiovinc1, thank you for your belief in me. Truth be told, I enjoy writing very much and have worked diligently to develop my own style and skills. I certainly hope that I add to the community wherever I end up since there will finally be enough people to make up a group with the same interests I have.</p>
<p>northstarmom, you have finally put a friendly, truthful, and encouraging face on college admissions; thanks for that. I value your opinions highly because of your experience.</p>
<p>Verbosely,</p>
<p>Erin-Michelle</p>
<p>Muncie, by Harvard standards is very much in the sticks, and that's good for you. While it's not excessively rural, its still not Indianapolis, Chicago, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Minneapolis or Detroit, the types of places where probably most H midwestern applicants hail from. Your being from a small place can work to your advantage particularly if your essay highlights things related to your small town experience.</p>
<p>And thanks for the nice words. You made my day. :)</p>
<p>I'm glad on both counts.</p>
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<p>OK, Northstarmom, I must have missed the post where you explained why Erin's rural high school is the exception to the rule, or why Erin's high school course preparation (which she didn't detail) will qualify her for Harvard. ;)</p>
<p>You can call me a cynic, but I think that your statement that Harvard mails to rural areas in order to attract more candidates coupled with the statement about academic prep proves my assertion: Erin got the mailing based on her zip code and SATs, but she's probably got better odds of winning a state lottery than actually getting admitted. It is disengenous for a school to claim it is looking for low-income applicants when it sets the bar for an admission using an income-sensitive test. If Harvard really wanted more low-income (or rural, or URM) students, they'd ditch the SAT for that set of applicants and use alternative forms of assessment, as well as providing expanded learning support on campus for those who may be coming from academically deficient high schools.</p>
<p>Erin's high performance on the SAT probably comes from the fact that she was homeschooled during elementary school plus was a National Spelling Bee participant (all that word study at ages 10-12 is also better than average SAT prep) - but she very well may be attending a high school with limited course offerings. </p>
<p>I still haven't seen one good reason other than the prestige factor why Harvard would be a good fit for a kid with Erin's interests. I mean - when it comes down to it I am truly baffled that anyone would select a college that isn't particularly strong in the areas that person wants to major in. I doubt that Harvard offers a major in animal science, for example. </p>
<p>I think that if Erin is serious about becoming a vet, she needs to look at the vet schools that she might be interested in attending, and view their admissions requirements carefully. Statistically speaking, its just as hard to get into vet school as it is to get into Harvard, and the schools look very much at experience working with animals as well as grades and course work. And it might be as difficult as ever for women to get into vet schools, though for different and somewhat ironic reasons: males are now the underrepresented minority at many vet schools. (For example, Tufts leans 80-85% female - with 750 applicants for about 80 slots). So Erin will not be well served by any college that doesn't afford her significant opportunity to take courses and gain experience geared to creating a compelling application profile for vet school. Since she wants to work with large animals- that probably means rural. </p>
<p>Since you went to Harvard yourself, it is understandable that you might not be aware of the many opportunities offered for gaining that experience at some other colleges. Since I went to UC Davis, I'll give you an example. When I was there, the school had a livestock "adoption" program where a student could sign up to become the caretaker of an animal. I didn't do that, but my best friend freshman year got a cow -- and I used to go with her regularly to help groom and halter-train her cow. Anyway, we both learned a lot about cow-care. Davis had all sorts of animals on campus, many of which were research animals -- there were beagles and sheep and a primate center, as well as riding stables. Experiences like this helped me decide that I didn't really want to be a vet after all -- but my friend with the cow decided to major in animal behavior.</p>
<p>Harvard may well be the best college for 200 other majors or fields of interest, but it really is not the best place for someone to lay the groundwork for a veterinary career.</p>
<p>
[quote]
My interest in Harvard lies in my knowledge that they are involved in stem cell research and the genome research, both of which fascinate me.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>None of the stem cell research involves the undergrad college. Of Harvard's first eight grants, only one went to the Faculty of Arts and Sciences -- to a Harvard research fellow. The others are all for research carried out at the Harvard teaching hospitals:</p>
<p>"four to researchers at Massachusetts General Hospital (MGH), two to the Joslin Diabetes Center, and one each to researchers at Children's Hospital Boston, the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute, Harvard Medical School (HMS), Harvard University Faculty of Arts and Sciences, McLean Hospital, and the Schepens Eye Research Institute."</p>
<p>It's important to understand the disctinction between various schools and other business units at a research university. All of those research centers would be fantastic places for a PhD program or med school degree. But, most of them aren't even on the same side of the river as Havard College. Totally separate.</p>
<p>The Faculty of Arts and Sciences is the Harvard group that may teach undergrad classes.</p>
<p>Not to mention that related work is going on at many other universities, including Stanford, UC Irvine, WUStL...</p>
<p>"OK, Northstarmom, I must have missed the post where you explained why Erin's rural high school is the exception to the rule, or why Erin's high school course preparation (which she didn't detail) will qualify her for Harvard. "</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Her SATs scores (1400 in the fall, is awaiting new results) are well within Harvard's range, which starts at 1200. I have seen students get into Harvard from weak schools recently who had SATs of 1200-1250, and who, as she does, had strong demonstrated interests and had taken full advantage of local intellectual opportunities. She will be compared with students of similar backgrounds, not with students who come from the country's top prep and public schools.</p></li>
<li><p>She has said that she is taking the toughest courses available, including a science intensive program. Harvard assesses students based on how they take advantage of the courses available in their school.She's carrying an "A" average with that academic courseload.</p></li>
<li><p>She will be doing science research this summer at Ball State. This shows that she's going out of her way to pursue her interest in science, and this will be seen as a big plus particularly since she comes from a weak high school in which presumably not many students do such things. Of course, for H to fully understand the importance of what she's doing, it would be good if the GC explained this in the GC's recommendation or if she discussed it in her interview or if she gets a supplemental recommendation from her supervisor this summer.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>"Erin got the mailing based on her zip code and SATs, but she's probably got better odds of winning a state lottery than actually getting admitted. It is disengenous for a school to claim it is looking for low-income applicants when it sets the bar for an admission using an income-sensitive test. "</p>
<p>Her odds certainly are much better than winning a state lottery. It is extremely hard to find applicants in small Midwestern areas with relatively weak schools that are willing to apply to Harvard and have the credentials that she has. The adcoms aren't going to compare her to students from NY's Styvestant High School or Rosemary Choate. They'll compare her with students of similar backgrounds. </p>
<p>She has a demonstrated passion in horses, has an acceptable SAT, the toughest courseload in her school, and is doing summer research. </p>
<p>None of this guarantees that she'll get into Harvard. The odds as always are long, probably 1:10 for most people. However, I think she has a decent shot at getting into at least a top 15 LAC or national university if she does a careful application that takes full advantage of the unusual things that she has to offer.</p>
<p>That she's taking the time to come to CC also gives her a big advantage as she'll learn lots of info about the college application process that often students in small, isolated areas don't know. That's also a big plus. Whether she'll get into Harvard, no one knows, but she has a decent chance of getting into a college that is highly rated.</p>
<p>Erin-Michelle, I just caught that you were in the NSB! When? My D was in the Bee at ages 9, 10, and 11 in '98, '99, and 2000! Highest place was 15th at age 9. In 2000, the newspaper dropped their sponsorship and no one has picked it up since. :( What a disappointment for it was a wonderful experience for all of us. Good luck in your endeavors!</p>
<p>I was going to say, for stem cell/genome work - come to California.</p>
<p>Oh, and if she was in national spelling bee twice, she's probably one of the top students her high school and small town has had in recent memory, and if her recommendations reflect this, that also will boost her chances a lot.</p>
<p>Yup, California is the place to be. The newly appointed head of our Life Sciences Institute just bolted to Stanford because he can't get approval for embryonic stem cell research in our state.</p>
<p>Northstarmom, I agree with you 100% that Erin has a terrific chance of getting into "at least a top 15 LAC or national university". I just feel that if she does her research, she will find that some of those other (non-Harvard) top 15's have a lot more to offer specific to her interests. For example, she may have more research opportunities at an LAC than any large research university, simply because it is a lot easier for an undergrad to get a research internship at an LAC. Helps tremendously when there are no graduate students or PH.D. students around competing for those spots.</p>
<p>I am not interested in Harvard, or any other Ivy/prestigious school for that matter, simply because of prestige, and I will reiterate that as often as necessary. I am NOT a label hunter, and I was not looking strictly to Harvard when I asked my original question. Thanks for bearing with my diatribe:D</p>
<p>I am amazed by the absolute wealth of information that is here on CC. And to think that I simply stumbled on it one day in January! Everyone should know about this place.</p>
<p>Calmom, I will outline my course load for my entire high school career as scheduled. Thanks for the heads up about where the research colleges are. You are totally correct in that I need to do research of my own. BTW, my SAT scores are partially attributable to my rapid inhalation of any book I can find; it is rare that I don't have one or two books going, and I even read the newspaper :)</p>
<p>interesteddad, you seem to be my perpetual tether to Earth:D As you continue to prove, I have not thoroughly researched my prospects; granted, I thought that information straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak, would be fairly reliable. In the letter from H, they specifically referenced those two research endeavors. I guess they have a "hook" of their own that works quite well if the kids don't actually dig up some info, too.</p>
<p>northstarmom, thanks once again for defending my honor. You are correct in that, as I have mentioned before, I am the valedictorian of my class and am not likely to lose that spot. At my school, the battle for the number one spot has come down to who has more A's instead of A+'s; I have only had two A's, and that is only two or three fewer than the guy nipping at my heels.</p>
<p>quiltguru, I spelled in '99 and '02 when I was 10/11 and 13/14 (My b-day is April 2nd). I didn't take the competition as seriously as I should have because I was not mature enough, and I wasn't a good girl and refused to study my Latin and Greek. Congrats to your D on her excellent placing. I loved the attention from the Bee; people used to recognize me from the extensive articles the paper did due to my being the first homeschooled participant ever in Muncie. Those were the days! :)</p>
<p>Here is my core courseload (I omitted some "fluff" classes required by the school):</p>
<p>'02-'03
Honors English 9
Spanish I
Honors Algebra II (w/ previous credit from Alg. I in eighth grade)
Biology I</p>
<p>'03-'04
Honors English 10 (most difficult class I've ever taken; crazy teacher)
Honors Geometry
Chemisty I
Spanish II
World Geography</p>
<p>'04-'05
Honors English 11
American Studies (technically an honors class in conjunction w/ English)
Chemistry II
Pre-Calculus
Biology II
Spanish III</p>
<p>'05-'06
Honors English 12
Government
Economics
Calculus AP
Chemistry AP (there are only six of us, so it is really an "independent study" that appears as a study hall on my schedule :( )
Physics I
Internship w/veterinarian(s)</p>
<p>I must note that:<br>
1)Calculus is the only AP my school offers on a yearly basis
2)students at my school track in history, science, engineering/ag, or the arts (performing, musical, or visual) because there isn't enough time to attack all of them; that explains the lack of all but science and math in my courseload 3)"honors" is the most advanced version of any subject, and even though the school's coursebook includes all the possible APs, it takes at least 15 students to push through anything besides Calc, and such a union rarely exists.
4)Cross my heart I'm not bragging about this, but I carry such high grades because my classes are too easy; I worked ahead or twiddled my thumbs very often this year, and I'm probably not the only one in the top 10 who feels that way.<br>
5)This will probably make me look bad, but here goes. Some of you may be familiar with the Indiana Academy, a "special school" associated with Ball State that is for the creme de la creme of the Junior/Senior GT students in IN. At the end of my sophomore year, I made a choice that I would be far better off if I remained the valedictorian at my public high school (IA doesn't rank, for one thing, and for another, its students have an extremely high burnout rate).</p>
<p>I'm making up for all the talking I CAN'T do because of my lovely swollen cheeks :D</p>
<p>Erin-Michelle</p>
<p>Erin - you need to make sure that your transcript reflects the Chemistry AP (and not "study hall") when it is sent to colleges next fall -- or else makes sure that the g.c. includes some sort of explanatory note. It is the difference between looking very good (Calc+2 science) and very bad (open period, the refuge of slackers) on paper. </p>
<p>You will also find some very good tips on how to learn about the quality of various majors and departments at colleges here:
admissionsadvice.com</p>
<p>The viewbooks, unfortunately, are mostly fluff and hyperbole. That isn't a Harvard thing, it is a marketing thing that applies for any college that has ever sent out a brochure or viewbook. Colleges even alter photos to make things look better (for example, digitally replacing brown spots on the lawn with green grass, even adding the faces of african-american students into a crowd to make the student body look more diverse). So at best, the viewbooks are a starting point as to what you might look for, but really can't be relied on beside the basic information as to admission requirements and application deadlines. Some do give a good "feel" for the campus culture -- I mean, if a view book for a university contains pictures of cheerleaders and the football team, it can give you some idea of where their priorities lie. But the bottom line is that the goal of the viewbook is to project a certain image, not to provide detailed information.</p>
<p>Don't be afraid to email profs in a department that you are interested in. They often are the best and most accurate source of information as to what you can realistically expect as an undergraduate.</p>
<p>Calmom, you must have read my mind. Thanks so much for that site. I have been on it all of a minute and a half and am already engrossed in an article.</p>
<p>Erin-Michelle</p>
<p>Calmon, don't tell everybody to come to California for Stem cell research, house price here is high enough! Tell them this is earth quake and mudslide country, very bad for those who are not used to live here, but we, Californians have to put a lot to live here for a bit of Sunshine(LOL).</p>
<p>So true ...
[quote]
A 7.0 magnitude earthquake rocked the ocean floor Tuesday night about 90 miles southwest of Crescent City, sparking a short-lived tsunami warning across Northern California's coast and prompting a partial evacuation of the coastal town.
[/quote]
<a href="http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/06/15/QUAKE.TMP%5B/url%5D">http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/06/15/QUAKE.TMP</a></p>
<p>Just a typical California day....</p>
<p>And in other news, re my comments in post #76 about college brochures, marketing, and artistic license:
<p>CAMBRIDGE, Massachusetts (AP) -- A Harvard brochure sent to thousands of prospective students included a doctored photo of the student newspaper's front page that removed a headline about the university president facing a confidence vote.</p>
<p>The headline in the Harvard Crimson read "Summers To Face No Confidence Vote." It referred to Harvard President Lawrence Summers, whose comments about women's aptitude for math and science attracted intense controversy earlier this year.</p>
<p>In the brochure, the March 9 headline was replaced with an illegible block of text.</p>
<p>William Fitzsimmons, Harvard's dean of admissions and financial aid, said the decision to run the altered photo was a mistake made under deadline pressure ....