"How did HE Get In?"

<p>Re Pizzagirl, #216: I think Pizzagirl and I operate in very different socioeconomic circles. Even though the majority of my high school friends went away to college, we stayed friends, and still see each other. I count a friend from high school, who lives 5 hours away from me, as my closest non-family friend.</p>

<p>I am really pleased that QMP continues to hang out with high-school friends when back in town, despite having graduated from college already.</p>

<p>One of my faculty friends, speaking about his sons and daughter, who went to Harvard, remarked that they did not have much interest in their high school friends after that. Sort of like Pizzagirl’s family?</p>

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Not everyone is as appreciative of other’s accomplishments as people on this thread purport to be. The captain of the football team and 1st place in the school spelling bee can be resentful when they realize they’ve been completely outclassed by the nobody next to them. Human nature.</p>

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<p>Probably not so much on these forums, but selectivity of such schools has increased due to a demographic bulge graduating from high school while the universities were cutting capacity due to budget cuts. That may have been an unpleasant surprise to students who found that grades and test scores that were historically more than enough to get into the local state university no longer are.</p>

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They may think that some of their achievements might appear uncool to their friends–Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts come to mind. Also, people may not realize how competitive some achievements are–somebody mentioned kids going to “writing camps” above–some of the writing camps are extremely selective and are a very good qualification–but people in the high school may not know that.</p>

<p>I was one of those stealth guys … </p>

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Really? Spurting out accomplishments to general inquiries often seems like bragging to me.</p>

<p>A couple versions of answers to a question … </p>

<p>How is track season going? “We’re having a great season and have a chance to win the states” How are you doing? "Not bad, having fun and set PRs in the mile and 2-mile. (Seems honest enough to me but nowhere close to enough specifics to know any details). </p>

<p>or … </p>

<p>How is track season going? “Great so far I’ve had a break-through season and hope to set school records in the mile and 2-mile by the end of the season … right now I’m the second rated underclassman miler in our division in the state” (Well that is full information … to me, this answer sound like a self-centered d***).</p>

<p>I do not do things for public acclaim or acknowledgement … I do them for internal rewards … (ps - this internal focus is the driver why I HATED the CC green squares and wanted no part of them).</p>

<p>Kids at my high school knew I was pretty smart and pretty good at track … they had no idea I had the highest math SATs or that the math and science teachers thought highly of me … they had no idea I was a state level athlete … and, yes, lots of people were surprised with my acceptances compared to classmates. To me, among my classmates the disconnect of expected results correlated very highly to how much student publicized their own accomplishments … the admissions “overachievers” tended to be folks who kept things to themselves (and their close friends).</p>

<p>Also, some stealth achievers may just be kids who don’t talk a lot in class. Class discussions are one of the main way peers identify “truly smart” kids (as well as those who are not as smart as they think they are).</p>

<p>I want to say a bit more about the “truly smart” vs. “study and study and study” kids, since it obviously strikes a nerve with many people. The uncomfortable fact is that some kids can perform well in the most challenging classes in high school without a lot of outside studying, and this leaves them with time to also achieve in ECs. Some other kids can perform well in those challenging classes, but only if they spend a great deal of time outside class studying. It’s not surprising that the latter can be at a disadvantage when it comes to college admissions, because while they may have the grades and scores, they don’t have the extra stuff that selective colleges also want. There’s no point pretending that this isn’t the case. (I will reiterate that I think there are some smart kids who are shortchanging themselves by studying more than they need to rather than pursuing ECs.)</p>

<p>But there are plenty of kids who can’t perform well in those challenging classes no matter how hard they work. That’s just how it is.</p>

<p>Hunt, #225, I can see that Boy Scouting might be a bit divisive or controversial.</p>

<p>Not to be specific to anyone on CC, I am wondering whether putting a high value on privacy might be a necessary self-protective measure of the comparatively wealthy. (Not being critical here, just curious, and putting on my hat as pop-sociologist.) Another thought that has occurred to me is that people draw the lines of “us” differently in different socioeconomic groups. In the area where I grew up, “us” was largely defined by geographical proximity. People with more economic resources might have groups of “us” where geography is purely incidental, and the social circles are defined more by interests and profession, drawing from a wide geographical area. If “us” is not the local group, then it would make sense to be less interested. (It does seem a bit Mitfordian–U and non-U–to someone who grew up clearly non-U.)</p>

<p>It reminds me of the remark when a student is asked what college he/she attends, “Oh, I go to school in Connecticut.” I’ve heard a couple of rejoinders to this, one being, “There’s nothing to be ashamed of, that you go to Yale,” and the other, “I’m in Branford. What’s your college?”</p>

<p>I’ve read a lot of different reactions to the “school in Connecticut” issue on CC. I’m not sure whether it divides along the same lines as strong privacy interest/less privacy interest.</p>

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True–but even before the controversies came to the surface more, a lot of kids thought it was kind of dorky–uniforms, etc. Perhaps that would be true of some other things, too, like chess, maybe, or some charitable work.</p>

<p>3togo, I’d like to ask you to modify your hypothetical scenario to make the runner someone who has just qualified for the Olympic trials. Is it bragging to say, “I have just qualified for the Olympic trials!” ? If another student is close enough to the runner to ask how the season is going, I’d think it would be fine to mention an accomplishment of that level. If I were the friend, and had asked how the running was going, got a non-committal answer, and then found out about the Olympic trials by reading it in the sports section of the paper, actually I would be offended that my friend hadn’t told me.</p>

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To me, it seems that it’s a bit disingenuous to disguise one’s accomplishments (e.g., “oh, I like playing chess,” when one is a very competitive chess player). Why would a student do that?"</p>

<p>Perhaps the kid doesn’t want to appear nerdy to other students, which is both unfortunate and fully understandable. I won some major awards in French and I surely didn’t let on how advanced and good at it I was. I had independent study since I had placed out of the highest level and that’s all people needed to know. I wasn’t going to breathlessly announce at the school lunch table how my essays on Racine, Corneille and Moliere were winning XYZ awards.</p>

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<p>Absolutely … every year there are multiple posts from parents about how unfair the top schools are because they expect too much from students and how their kid is killing themselves to get into top school “X”. I do no post this but want to tell the parent maybe your kid is not cut out for one of the top schools. There are kids who do it all and get enough sleep and do not stress out.</p>

<p>SecondToGo played lacrosse and had a teammate who was a college recruit level lacrosse player and I also knew he was an excellent musician … and that he had a social life and got lots of sleep. Mom3ToGo and I go to watch the musical and who has one of the lead roles … mr goalie/musician. Fast forward to graduation and some of academics accomplishments of mt goalies/musician are listed in the program (NMF, best in subject award, etc). Yikes … this kid didn’t cure cancer but he sure was excellent at a lot of things while living a normal life.</p>

<p>It also occurs to me that the school itself announced certain types of achievements, and not others. Thus, for example, everybody may know about athletic achievements and certain academic achievements, but not others.</p>

<p>" If another student is close enough to the runner to ask how the season is going, I’d think it would be fine to mention an accomplishment of that level. If I were the friend, and had asked how the running was going, got a non-committal answer, and then found out about the Olympic trials by reading it in the sports section of the paper, actually I would be offended that my friend hadn’t told me."</p>

<p>Keyword - IF the student is close enough to the runner. There’s an assumption inherent here. In the Stanford swimmer example I mentioned, my kids knew of this girl, she was in classes with them, they were cordial and so forth, but they weren’t friends. They knew she was a “really good swimmer” - but why would they know anything more about her than that? </p>

<p>Perhaps this will help. Do you follow professional sports teams? Some people do, and can tell you all about the season their favorite players are having, what awards they’ve won, etc. Others are like me - I haven’t a clue whether the professional sports teams in my town are having a good or bad season, I don’t know who the star players are, I never know who is in the World Series or Super Bowl. I am a dog with a bone on things that interest me, and completely oblivious to things that don’t. </p>

<p>I dated a football player in hs for 2.5 years, dutifully went to all the games, and I still couldn’t tell you if we had a “good” / winning team or not, or who was the captain or won scholarships, etc. it just wasn’t important to me.</p>

<p>I’ve been in this situation since December. D got into Penn Wharton ED. </p>

<p>I’m very happy about it but don’t feel that other parents are ready to hear it. That the news may sound like bragging or be used to compare our kids or maybe even used at home to try to get their unmotivated kid more motivated. Or any number of negative reactions.</p>

<p>I’ve gotten a variety of reactions too from those I’ve told. Some justify keeping it under wraps and some don’t.</p>

<p>A stealth achiever has probably learned to keep it stealthy from the reactions of others.</p>

<p>And sometimes, it’s nice to be stealthy when you don’t have time for a long conversation. Applying to an Ivy League school, I can’t tell you how many monologues I’ve heard from others about Ivy admissions-usually from people who read a book or saw a movie on it-telling me about the ins and outs even though I’ve been through it. Ugh. Can I say a word or do you know everything about it?</p>

<p>“Not to be specific to anyone on CC, I am wondering whether putting a high value on privacy might be a necessary self-protective measure of the comparatively wealthy. (Not being critical here, just curious, and putting on my hat as pop-sociologist.)”</p>

<p>I just think it’s classic Myers-Briggs introvert vs extrovert. Do you see high school as a place where you’re going to know the interests, activities and talents of all 500 kids in your class? Or do you see hs as a place where you’re going to have a small group of close friends and everyone else can do their own thing? I think QM is an extrovert just based on her posts.</p>

<p>In all fairness, Pizzagirl, it seems to me that you are at one extreme of the spectrum in terms of how much you think people are or should be interested in others’ business.</p>

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<p>I will quote the Total Group Profile Report published by the College Board, which FairTest probably used. The 2012 version is at <a href=“http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/TotalGroup-2012.pdf[/url]”>http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/TotalGroup-2012.pdf&lt;/a&gt; and the 2006 version at <a href=“College Board - SAT, AP, College Search and Admission Tools”>College Board - SAT, AP, College Search and Admission Tools; . Here are the average scores by race.</p>

<p>blacks
year reading math writing
2006 434 429 428
2012 428 428 417</p>

<p>whites
year reading math writing
2006 527 536 519
2012 527 536 515</p>

<p>The black/white gap on the SAT composite has grown by 14 points from 2006 to 2012.</p>

<p>“Another thought that has occurred to me is that people draw the lines of “us” differently in different socioeconomic groups. In the area where I grew up, “us” was largely defined by geographical proximity. People with more economic resources might have groups of “us” where geography is purely incidental, and the social circles are defined more by interests and profession, drawing from a wide geographical area. If “us” is not the local group, then it would make sense to be less interested. (It does seem a bit Mitfordian–U and non-U–to someone who grew up clearly non-U.)”</p>

<p>I love the Mitford references! I think the one thing you’re potentially missing is that it’s not that I drew the lines of my U differently. It’s that I drew the lines of my U more tightly / narrowly.</p>

<p>Honestly, even when friends on FB post news about their kids’ accomplishments --and I’m genuinely happy for them – what sticks in my mind is that “Donna’s son is a really good swimmer,” or “Gretchen’s daughter is a good ice skater” or some such. Not the actual level of award. The only exception is a friend whose son is a talented musician and as hs senior, played at the Grammys with Keith Urban. That had a real wow factor. But whether the cute video of Gretchen’s daughter skating means that she is best at her skating rink or best in the conference or best in the state or just really really likes to skate … Beats me. I’m happy if Gretchen’s happy. The details aren’t important to me.</p>

<h1>235, Pizzagirl–hmm, I must be a closet extrovert. I did take an online Myers-Briggs test once and had just about the most extreme possible introversion.</h1>

<p>Hunt - yes, fair enough! Guilty as charged! </p>

<p>My own nephew is at Princeton, and I just knew he was good at x sport. didn’t really know the dimensions of it. I can google his profile, but it’s not going to mean anything unless I familiarize myself with the local, regional and national organizations for that sport, which I’m not interested in. My D saw him play when Princeton traveled to Harvard and she went to cheer him on since she also goes to school in Boston, but the rest of us in our family have never seen him play and don’t know anything about the sport. </p>

<p>Maybe some of this has to do with size of family. Both H and I have small families. So following the activities of lots of people just isn’t something we are used to. People with larger families may be more used to keeping up with lots of people. Just thinking aloud.</p>