<p>DS is looking for a good computer science program, particularly in game design/virtual reality/human interaction types of classes, which are not always easy to find. However, he also wants a school that is strong in the liberal arts, as he's a creative writer and is interested in many other fields of arts and sciences as well. He's got scores and grades good enough to get into the ivies (if they'll have him), so we're looking at top colleges in the northeastern part of the country. He would like to keep the number of students below 10,000 which means small to medium sized schools, although we'll probably look at slightly larger ones too.</p>
<p>What schools would you recommend for him? He loves Brown the best, but obviously he needs good alternatives. Open curriculums and less competitive environments are more appealing to him.</p>
<p>How do you know which colleges to choose from, and whose programs are better? He may like one of the top colleges, but if their computer science is weak, then that's not really a good fit. For instance, he likes Bowdoin, which is great for writing, but I don't think they have a strong computer science program. Where do I find that info?</p>
<p>Also, do you think he's better off in a medium sized school rather than a small LAC because of the number of options he'd have within the computer science department? He loves some of the small ones like Haverford and Amherst, but he may be limited in his course choices, even with the consortiums.</p>
<p>Just my opinion but - I’d look for a school with a well-respected CS program first and then check to see if it has a reasonable English dept as well. I think a decent English dept will be much easier to find although he needs to keep it in mind.</p>
<p>Given that this is what he wants he should keep it in mind if he’s looking at some of the very technically focused colleges since some may have fewer liberal arts and alternate major (if he decides he doesn’t like CS) options available.</p>
<p>You can check the various ‘rankings’ for the major (like USNWR) but take care to look at undergrad rankings as opposed to grad school rankings.</p>
<p>You can also check to see what employers interview on that campus to get an idea if their CS programs attract a lot of employers to the campus. Just because there aren’t many doesn’t mean their program isn’t good or that he wouldn’t end up with a job but if they do then it’s good info.</p>
<p>The real gaming stuff they do at a graduate level I think, but he should look into it if he hasn’t already. SCS requires students to have a minor so that shouldn’t be an issue. If he’s got good AP scores you can get out of the Gen Ed requirements and end up with a Brown like open curriculum.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that it’s pretty common for males who plan to go into CS to have gaming in mind since that’s pretty much what they’ve been exposed to at this point in their lives but a lot of them end up employed in areas other than gaming since it’s a big wide world out there for CS people. As he’s exposed to different areas he might decide he likes other areas better or he might just have better opportunities elsewhere. The CS degree is actually a relatively general degree and while one may take a few courses in specific interest areas, like gaming, his schedule will likely already be packed with the more general CS courses - especially if he plans a minor along with it. Given that, there are some schools that specialize more in gaming but he really should consider the CS degree itself first.</p>
<p>Double check, of course, but I have the impression that CMU’s creative writing program is very good, but set up so that only creative writing majors can really take advantage of it. </p>
<p>CMU has a game club that sounds very cool–all sorts of people including programmers, artists, writers, etc. get together every semester and create a new game.</p>
<p>If he is interested in selective colleges like Brown, Amherst,… the MIT is the perfect place for him. MIT undergraduate population is about 4,500. MIT has ECCS department and the following departments suit him very well:</p>
<p>Except the general institution required classes, requirements for majors at MIT are very open. Students can have a lot of choices in choosing classes to suit their majors.</p>
<p>I’ll also put in a vote for Carnegie Mellon. A friend’s S is doing a CompSci-Creative Writing major, and both he & parents are very pleased with the whole experience. They have dual degree/interdisciplinary programs.</p>
<p>Actually we just looked at CMU about a month ago, and DS liked it. The new cs center is really nice, and he liked the feel of the school. I will definitely look into the creative writing courses being hard to get into for non-majors - thanks for the heads up, motherbear332. I know the theater/arts program is difficult to take courses in, but I think playwriting was in the English dept.</p>
<p>I was sort of against looking at MIT for him only because he doesn’t like a competitive environments, and he hates to study. He’s very smart, but he doesn’t work at it at all (doesn’t get that from me!), so I thought he would hate it there because everyone is such a serious student. He has a 4.0 from a great school, but the boy never studies - it’s disgusting!</p>
<p>ucsd<em>ucla</em>dad - that was good insight. DS has taken many week long game design classes (camps) over the summers, and this summer he took programming, which he also loved. I was thinking along the same lines as you actually, that he may end up on a different path once he gets into real cs. It would definitely be better for him and give him more job options in the future.</p>
<p>It’s so hard to know where they’ll end up, especially when they have so many interests, and you never know what else they’ll find once they get to college. He seems to be leaning more towards a LAC so he can explore a lot and less towards a techy school. But something like CMU is great because it has it all. We also looked at Case Western, and we were going to check out Lehigh as well. Any thoughts on those? Is RPI too techy? I didn’t see alot of liberal arts there.</p>
<p>The other schools he liked the most were Haverford, Brown, Yale, Bowdoin, Amherst, and Connecticut College, which probably isn’t as strong as the others academically, but has the kind of cs program he’s looking for.</p>
<p>megan - My son was like your son. He did not study much in HS. The reason was HS work was easy. But college is different. If students don’t study, don’t do the work then they cannot survive. This apply to all selective and less selective colleges. I don’t think students at CMU, Brown, Yale,… don’t work hard. The right environment and the group spirit will stimulate the kids’ work ethics. MIT students work hard but they don’t compete. They collaborate, work together; otherwise they will not learn much and will not survive. You may want to let your son think about it. You may want to post your questions on the MIT forum to get better responses. Good luck!</p>
<p>I would suggest WPI. Even though it is a traditional ‘tech’ school, it does have a strong Liberal Arts requirement, and a very well respected game design program. I believe that the students can focus on the ‘design’, which is more liberal arts, or programming, which is more computer science based.</p>
<p>coolweather, although I will look more into MIT like you suggest, I have to disagree with you on HS being easy. He’s going to a really good prep school. He’s just that smart. He didn’t even study for the SAT or the ACT and did really well. He’s a lot like my brother - he never studied either and went to Northwestern. I’m not sure he studied there either. </p>
<p>He does do the work - I have to say that. He had a really hard chem teacher that gave no less than 2 hours of homework every night and upwards of 6 hours on others. The whole class ended up with 5’s on the AP test. But he must just retain everything he’s learned. I don’t know how he does it - I studied my brains out in college!</p>
<p>My very, very smart older son had to work hard at CMU. It’s different though when you spend most of your time working on stuff you love learning. </p>
<p>I agree that WPI is worth a look. It felt too small to me, but everyone is different. I liked RPI better, but have no idea what humanities are like there. If you are willing to look at the west coast Harvey Mudd advertises itself as an LAC with a tech focus - and you have the other Claremont Colleges right next door as part of the consortium.</p>
<p>My son did CS at Brown, and loved it (feel free to PM me). I would add Tufts. Amherst has the flexible curriculum w/out distribution requirements, but don’t know much about their CS. UMass Amherst has a great dept. for computer science. Carnegie Mellon is a good idea too. Did he look at Dartmouth? Clark U. is a good school, in Worcester. </p>
<p>It looks like your son already has a great list of schools. </p>
<p>Has he talked with admissions or with the CS department at any of them? That can help clarify things. Website descriptions of curricula and course sequences can be helpful too. I’m sure you and your son have already done that…</p>
<p>I second gsmomma about WPI. A friend of mine went there, majored in CS (not gaming specifically, but they have a program) and was incredibly involved in theater, took conducting classes, and overall, had a fairly heavy exposure to the “non-tech” side of the school. I’d definitely check it out!</p>
<p>I’ve stated repeatedly on CC, without seeing much push-back, that CS departments offer pretty much the same set of courses at almost all selective schools (and at many non-selective schools, too). The Association for Computing Machinery has published Curriculum Recommendations. Most departments are more or less in line with them, so even a small LAC usually will offer an Introduction to Programming, Algorithms, Database Theory, Programming Languages (theory), a Discrete Math course, etc. The big powerhouses (CMU, etc) will offer more upper-level courses in Robotics and such.</p>
<p>Your kid needs to think about how ambitious he wants to be. Does he dream of founding the next Google … or working for Microsoft? If so, a degree from a big name school might help. Would he be content with a decent job supporting IT for a major international bank? Any top 100 or so school (including LACs) ought to position him well for that (especially if he takes advantage of internships). Doing web design for the county government? Practically anywhere would do.</p>
<p>Once you get to the level of state flagships and selective private colleges, in my opinion the most important differences are on the “soft” side (the liberal arts), the internship/research opportunities, and the “fit”. Not the CS department offerings. Unless, that is, you’re talking about a few tip top schools like Stanford, Berkeley, and MIT. Shoot for those schools if you really want to get in on the next big thing in hands-on application design, or if you’d like to learn arcane computing theory from some of the best minds in the field.</p>
<p>Wow - lots of great suggestions from everyone. Thanks! You’ve all given me (and DS) lots to think about.</p>
<p>tk21769 - I wish I could say that with my S’s brilliant mind he was ambitious, but unfortunately, that’s not the case. Sometimes I want to shake that boy because he’s so full of potential, but he can be lazy. I’m hoping it’s just a teenage thing and once he finds his passion, he’ll get a little more energy!</p>
<p>I will definitely look into WPI. My cousins visited there, and they liked it. I don’t see him getting on a plane and flying halfway across the country, however, so some of the really good schools out west are not on our list.</p>
<p>compmom - we drove around Tufts, but didn’t take a tour there. Do they have a good town around there? DS is looking for somewhere he can hang out off campus sometimes like at Brown and Princeton. He didn’t like Dartmouth or JHU because of the red brick buildings (I’m not kidding), among other things. He said JHU reminded him of Harvard, which suprisingly, he also didn’t like. I loved all of them. Brandeis and Wesleyan were also crossed off because of their towns.</p>
<p>No one’s mentioned Case Western. Do you think that’s a good option as well? DS liked it but liked CMU better. They seem to be putting a lot of money into some liberal arts programs. I also want him to check out Cornell and U of Roch.</p>