How do you minimize indecision? (from an '08 parent)

Parents Forum
1

<p>I've been reading the threads on last-minute final decisions, and sometimes they puzzle me. I fully understand all the variables that have to be considered, and it seems perfectly reasonable to me that a student could be weighing a couple of options down to the last minute. I fully understand the dilemma--for example--of being accepted at places you love equally. And of course financial aid packages play a huge part. It is an important decision, and some of it is a function of our personalities.</p>

<p>But some students (not just on this forum, but others) seem to suffer from indecision--not simply tough decisionmaking. They seem to use the acceptance letter as the beginning, not the culmination, of their research and soul-searching. Some lack even the most basic information about the schools they are considering, or they have not given much thought to issues like small town/urban area, large/small school. To me, April isn't the time to be finding out for the first time that a school doesn't have what you need academically, or that you don't want to be in a small town, or that you don't want a women's college, etc. I couldn't get over the student who was choosing among Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Princeton LAST NIGHT! What's wrong with this picture? (And how many kids are on waiting lists waiting for this student to decide?)</p>

<p>Or, to put it another way, I hope my son can avoid this picture! He's focused on a particular field, something he's developed a real passion for. That kind of naturally limits the options, but there are still quite a few schools to consider--including schools that would offer him something else if he changes his mind. Many have rolling admissions, so that's good in terms of not packing the decisionmaking into the month of April. I am not sure we will be able to visit every one, but I can tell you that we are not taking a regular family vacation this year because those funds are going toward college visits, and my H and I are taking turns doing distant visits with him. (By the way, we figure college towns are also good retirement locations, so the visits do double duty in some cases--even if he doesn't want to go there, we might like to retire there! :) ) And based on some comments on this forum, my S and I have agreed that I will be his "project manager" (I like that better than secretary :) ) so he can focus on the kind of thinking it takes to make a choice.</p>

<p>So here's my question to the parents and counselors on this forum: He will begin sending applications in late August to beat the rush on several schools. What are some steps we can take as we go through the search and application process to avoid paralyzing indecision in the end? What should we do--or not do--as parents? How can we encourage and support our S?</p>

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<p>I'm always dumbfounded by the last minute indecision I see posted here as well. Of course, I'm taken aback by how little students (or their parents)seem to know about the schools to which they've applied. Even a quick google search would answer most school questions I see posted.</p>

<p>A lot of the angst, to my mind, seems to stem from the "prestige" factor. Which school will give me more prestige in the end and "look better" for graduate school applications. Most seem to not understand that so much of what you do, learn, and achieve in a university setting is on the student's back. </p>

<p>At any rate, never have him apply to any school to which he would not be very happy to attend. Otherwise, what's the point? Keep the number of school applications to a minimum. I honestly can't see why anyone would apply to more than 6-8 schools, at most. If money will ever be an issue, talk about it now-- don't wait until he gets into this "top choice" school, and then tell him he can't go, because you're saving for retirement, and can't afford it. Don't depend on scholarships or financial aid as sure bets. </p>

<p>You probably know all this, but those are my two cents worth of recommendations.</p>

3

<p>How is he now at making decisions? If improvement is needed, discuss that and practice during the next year.</p>

4

<p>Ooh, I like this one.
First, know your son. No one knows him better than you do. Did he have trouble adjusting to kindergarten or sleep away camp? Is he your kid who stands in front of the ice cream counter for 10 minutes deciding, then says after the first lick, "boy I wish I had gotten the chocolate chip"? Has he (pretty typical for boys) spoken to you in anything beyond monosyllables for the last 2 years? Is he the kind of kid who acts like he's deaf, but then when he actually needs to make a decision about something, follows advice that you have given?
The answers to these questions should help guide in knowing when to push and when to back off, when to talk and when to shut up. How to help the decision-making, not be an obstacle. In my experience, DD and I took lots of long walks together in the afternoons, and discussed schools, with me as sounding board, but I can't imagine my son having the patience or the need to talk. Also, both of my kids really take what we parents say to heart, although outwardly they are rebelling like crazy. This means that we have to be careful about what we say about schools around them - they might take it more seriously than it was meant.</p>

<p>Next, if there are non-negotiable parameters, particularly finances, now is the time to make that clear. Keep in mind that no matter how mature he seems, he is still a kid, and may have trouble dealing with the common situation of "we have to see how the money plays out", and "we'll find some way to take care of it" when the family has no clue how "it" will be taken care of, is just cruel. If there is a definite limit to how much you can pay, make that upfront so he can factor that into his decision making.</p>

<p>Being project manager is a good idea.</p>

<p>Keep in mind that they grow and change a lot during senior year, encourage him to keep options open at least until early March, UNLESS, he is the type person who needs closure to enjoy senior year, then see above.</p>

<p>If he is looking at large state schools with rolling admits, and some common acceptance date schools, consider those housing deposits to be investments, and don't worry about sending them in to hold him a place. At one of our state schools, on campus housing is so limited that apps are submitted the summer before senior year, just to get housing.</p>

5

<p>I don't know if you can. Some kids just don't want to fall in love with anything before they know if they got in. My son knew what his first choice was. He knew he'd probably eliminate the two safeties - but if we'd been more concerned about money that might not have been so easy. But all of the other schools had plusses and minuses. How do you weigh a school's overall stellar reputation against the less stellar major? My son said at the very beginning he didn't care about location or school size all he cared about was good a good computer program. In the end that *was *what he chose, but you know it's hard to turn down Harvard!</p>

<p>I would recommend visits, overnights and sitting in on classes as helping kids to get a feel for campuses. But my son really could picture himself at all the places he applied to.</p>

6

<p>Does your son come up with schools that he'd like to learn more about or visit on his own, or are you steering him towards schools that you think would be a good fit for his interests, talents and personality?</p>

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<p>Though we had visited every school my son applied to, we had visited some in the summer and he had overnighted at only one (most schools won't set up an overnight before senior year). We didn't see the point of maling expensive trips across the country for re-visits until we knew where he'd been accepted. We also didn't want him to miss a lot class time senior year. His HS's April break was at the end of the month. We added on the week before that and visited his 5 remaing favorite for overnights.</p>

<p>This took the decision right up to the wire--we finished at the last campus on April 27. By then he was only considering 3 and, in hindsight, I think he already had picked the one, but needed a couple of days to say goodbye to the other two. As I saw it, it wasn't hard to say yes--it was hard to eliminate the other juicy options. He did it though. By that point, there should only be good options left on the plate, so there's not much room for error. </p>

<p>Rolling admissions are a great thing, but none of my son's schools offered this. He heard from his last schools April 1. Not much time to arrange trips and decide. When I was whining to the Pomona admissions dean he reminded me that notification dates used to be April 15. Yikes!</p>

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<p>I knew it would be dangerous to post this question at the beginning of the work day, because I'm checking back when I should be working!
copter: I've steered him toward schools that fit his interests (journalism/photojournalism in a school with a dedicated j-school). I've tried not to pay too much attention to my own perception of fit before visiting, but I know him pretty well. I've told him "all you're doing is looking right now," and he seems to get that. For a guy, he's always been a good shopper. :)
jack: We're on the same wavelength. I might "know" what you're saying, but it really helps to have parental confirmation! We've talked about the money and will do so again, because I'm not sure it's sticking. He's always liked a bargain, though (see above).
ADad: He is a pretty good decision maker, but sometimes seems to get an idea stuck in his mind. Very good point: practicing decisionmaking skills in the coming months, in big and small ways.
mathmom: I read a couple of your other threads and was impressed by your son's focus--he sounds like he's a kid who knows what he wants and isn't distracted.
cangel: Thank you for a great list! My son actually has conversations with me (when he's not fighting with me :) ), so that will help.
bethievt: I remember April 15, too, and that's why I heave a sigh of relief at rolling admissions. Gives more re-visiting time.</p>

<p>Now I'm turning off my network--my strategy for staying focused on making a living to pay for college! Hope to read more tonight.</p>

9

<p>Last-minute mom weighing in here, for what it's worth.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>My son's self-knowledge matured during his senior year of high school. Despite the fact that he is a very "together" sort of kid, top student with focused and serious extracurriculars, and was admitted early action to one of his top two choices, it was the third week of April before he decided on his college choice. (And he had already made two visits to the ea school, and he loved it. And he decided against it. See below.)</p></li>
<li><p>All visits are not created equal. The visit that ultimately changed my son's mind in favor of the school he chose was an Engineering Open House held for accepted students only, in April. Until he had the chance to visit with deans, professors and students in a well-planned, welcoming format, he really didn't have a feel for the school. On the other hand, a third visit to school #1, for accepted students (also in April), proved to be a little bit of a disappointment for him, as it was extremely impersonal, did not give him a chance to speak with professors in his intended field, and provided no students majoring in particular fields to speak with the prospective students.</p></li>
<li><p>Someone above mentioned not relying on merit scholarships. While that is true, I also strongly advocate that very strong students include good universities, or good fit universities, that offer at least the possibility of merit money. My son did not jump at the early action admit because he wanted them to offer him some merit money. In the end, they did, but not before several other schools offered him some, and one school offered him 40K/yr, renewable for four. There is no way to avoid the last-minute decision if you wish to consider financial matters. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>A last point that was relevant to my kid, but perhaps not to a lot of others, is that his major, computer science, is offered in a variety of contexts; at some schools, it is within an engineering college, at some it is a stand-alone school (CMU-SCS, for instance), at others it is a subset of the math department. He applied to, and was accepted, with merit money in most cases, at every one of those types of schools. It was during his senior year that he realized he really wanted to be at a school that offered a wide variety of in-class and hands-on lab experiences, and that was the final deciding factor for him. He wasn't ready to make that decision earlier. </p>

<p>High school is only 4 years long. Those are the years a kid develops strong interests and discovers where his/her talents lie. Cutting off the last year altogether sets the stage, IMO, for potential bad college choices. As much as I would have loved to avoid the year-long stress and the last-minute visits, I think it is unavoidable for most students and their parents. </p>

<p>As for large vs small, public vs private, hot climate vs cold, laid-back vs intense, many posters think it is important to decide on those factors early on. My son wanted intense, large urban area, cold weather, but he spread his net wide in the hopes of landing some merit money. He ended up choosing Vanderbilt U over the Univ. of Chicago, so go figure. I'm glad I wasn't placing any bets at the beginning of the process.</p>

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<p>There are some GREAT tips on here.</p>

<p>Keep in mind that some kids just don't care that much where they end up. Sometimes us parents seem to care a lot more. We're expecting this sophisticated decision making process -- and, well, the kid is busy with being a HS senior...or they just don't like the way the tour guide looks...or whatever...</p>

<p>I'd suggest starting with finances. Really, without a price tag kids can be very disappointed by how few choices they end up with. That is nearly always due to lack of up-front communication about how much $ parents are willing to spend.</p>

<p>My kid did nearly all early action schools. I had a list of his acceptances on here as long as my arm VERY early on. But in the end he decided only a couple days before the deadline. So early apps may or may not help that much. (Also, you end up waiting for money decisions...)</p>

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<p>I can't agree strongly enough with midmo about the changes that take place during senior year. My d is going to a school I never would have expected. It doesn't seem to have anything she wanted at the beginning (and we did do a lot of this "soul-searching" early on). It was the outlier on her list, added because a lot of people who knew her said she'd love it. When we finally visited, she did love it. The smaller schools she though she wanted in September were too small for her by April; they began to feel claustrophobic on re-visits. </p>

<p>The only way we could know this was to visit after acceptances, some to Accepted Students Day, some on regular days. But once she'd visited them all, there was no indecision. She knew right away.</p>

12

<p>
[quote]
A lot of the angst, to my mind, seems to stem from the "prestige" factor. Which school will give me more prestige in the end and "look better" for graduate school applications. Most seem to not understand that so much of what you do, learn, and achieve in a university setting is on the student's back.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>YES YES YES. Listen to Jack. Throw a prestige school into the mix if it is really a good fit, but spend most of your time and attention on realistic goals. Spending the entire senior year is a state of high anxiety is such a waste.</p>

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<p>Sometimes until the choice is staring you in the face, a student hasn't settled on the relative importance of various criteria. This is understandable on many levels, including the different contexts that can arise when the decision is to be made. </p>

<p>For instance, a student in my daughter's high school applied to a women's college but when faced with the acceptances, decided that she didn't want to go to an all-women's school. That might seem to be a simple case of "didn't she know this already." However, she had other good choices, several with better financial aid and similarly good locations. If she hadn't had the range of choices she had and if the women's college had given more financial aid, particularly a research-linked grant, the decision and the underlying criteria might have been different.</p>

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<p>Another last minute decision parent here. The issue we dealt with was that D never found the "perfect" college, but had five "very good" schools to choose from. She would have been happy at any (she refused to apply to those she wasn't willing to attend!) but each offered her something different. So in April, she had to decide whether she wanted to go to the bigger school with more choices and less personal attention? Or the one with the really great violin teacher? Or the one with the unusual major requirements that appealed to her? Or the gorgeous campus? Or the friendliest campus? Or the closer to home school? Or the great study abroad program? And a whole 'nother list comparing the negatives of each school. This one has a party rep. That one has an ugly campus. Another has an inflexible core requirement. There's the one in the boonies, and the one in the less desirable neighborhood.</p>

<p>And, given the merit offers, we had to decide how much the differences were 'worth' to us.</p>

<p>And we all had to deal with that vague feeling that we might miss an important piece of the puzzle.</p>

<p>If you can figure out how to know those answers in advance, then you will avoid a lot of the difficulties of our process.</p>

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<p>What I've found is that a lot of kids don't have much experience with making their own decisions in general, and not just college decisions. For one reason or another, they've been protected from making mistakes, or had their decisions mainly made for them. </p>

<p>So, my advice is: Give your son lots of opportunities over the next year to make decisions for himself as much as possible. Some of these decisions might be related to college stuff, others might just be related to life in general. If he hasn't had much practice with making his own decisions, start small and build up to bigger choices. Again, I'm not just talking about college choices here, but other choices as well.</p>

<p>It's definitely hard to step back as a parent, of course, and it's likely you will have to invest in some duct tape to avoid saying what you really think at times. But, decision-making skills don't just happen. Kids (and adults!) need to build up their decision-making muscles, they have to learn that mistakes happen but usually aren't fatal, and they also have to gain the confidence necessary to believe that they can handle decisions on their own. The more you can do to let your son build those muscles over the next year, the less likely he'll stumble when it comes to the really important decisions next April.</p>

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<p>As for the college choices themselves, invest $10 in a book called College Match by Steven Antonoff. It has lots of great "self-knowledge" exercises for students who are just starting the college process. Some kids won't want to be bothered with doing the exercises in any formal way, but at least you'll have questions to ask him along the way as your son moves through the process. Ask. Then listen. May take a while for the answers to come and some may never come (especially with boys), but listening is important.</p>

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<p>This is a great thread! I "project managed" by S, too and I suggested several schools I thought would appeal to him. He had a list of over 20 that met his initial criteria: had his major interests - there were 3, english, sociology, anthropology, were within 1/2 hour of skiing and were close enough to significant bodies of water no inland mud holes early in his junior year. We then eliminated all the schools where his stats put him below the median (his wish). He ended up with a list of 15. From there we talked finances. I made him a spreadsheet of the 15 with total cost excluding travel and asked him to weigh the information, explained that schools above $X he would have to take out a Stafford loan and schools below $X we would pay all. Schools above $XXX he would have to get significant merit $ to go to at all. Then we selected about 5 that we could hit on one road trip. We made that trip over Thanksgiving week of junior year. Son decided he did not like huge campuses with roads going through them one bit and would never, ever go to a school that size. Well, yipee that brought our list down to under 10. I then directed him over the summer between junior and senior year to get the list down to 6 by doing research and some soul searching. He applied to all 6 early in the fall of senior year and he visited all but 1 (that he already mentally decided he didn't want to go). His last visit he came home, said "that's the one" and that was it. But the process was good for us and I'll repeat with son #2. That said, my son was not "prestige" oriented and he's well lots by lots of different kinds of kids from the grade grinds to the "grades, who cares" kids, doesn't care too much what brand of jeans he has. I'm sure that kind of kid is not going to get too hung up on the name brand. I was probably more status aware throughout the process or at least more aware of which school was perceived as "better".</p>

18

<p>
[quote]
did not like huge campuses with roads going through them one bit and would never, ever go to a school that size

[/quote]

That was part of our problem - what D thought she definitely did and did not want last fall changed as the year went on. By spring, a lot of the reasons she really liked certain schools had ceased to be important to her, and vice versa. And trying to choose now what she will want for the next four years seemed an enormous task.</p>

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<p>This is a great thread! I "project managed" by S, too and I suggested several schools I thought would appeal to him. He had a list of over 20 that met his initial criteria: had his major interests - there were 3, english, sociology, anthropology, were within 1/2 hour of skiing and were close enough to significant bodies of water no inland mud holes early in his junior year. We then eliminated all the schools where his stats put him below the median (his wish). He ended up with a list of 15. From there we talked finances. I made him a spreadsheet of the 15 with total cost excluding travel and asked him to weigh the information, explained that schools above $X he would have to take out a Stafford loan and schools below $X we would pay all. Schools above $XXX he would have to get significant merit $ to go to at all. Then we selected about 5 that we could hit on one road trip. We made that trip over Thanksgiving week of junior year. Son decided he did not like huge campuses with roads going through them one bit and would never, ever go to a school that size. Well, yipee that brought our list down to under 10. I then directed him over the summer between junior and senior year to get the list down to 6 by doing research and some soul searching. He applied to all 6 early in the fall of senior year and he visited all but 1 (that he already mentally decided he didn't want to go). His last visit he came home, said "that's the one" and that was it. But the process was good for us and I'll repeat with son #2. That said, my son was not "prestige" oriented and he's well lots by lots of different kinds of kids from the grade grinds to the "grades, who cares" kids, doesn't care too much what brand of jeans he has. I'm sure that kind of kid is not going to get too hung up on the name brand. I was probably more status aware throughout the process or at least more aware of which school was perceived as "better".</p>

20

<p>LOTS of basic research-- college guides, course catalogs(!), college websites, FA info, advice from guidance counselor, etc. When students combine all this with their visit impressions, they should be in a good position to make a decision.
Have said this before, but the school our S. liked best "on paper" from the time he started research is the one he is attending next fall. It also helped that it just "clicked" for him when he visited the campus.</p>