<p>I just found this forum recently and I am amazed at the course loads/EC's that so many students are juggling to get into the top universities.</p>
<p>How do your children handle this type of load - do they have any time to enjoy their teenage years?</p>
<p>My DS is in 6th grade and has been labeled "gifted". I want to make sure that he reaches his full potential, but I don't want him to have a stressed out/overloaded childhood.</p>
<p>Is that what differentiates those that belong in HYSP - they can take on all of this and still have a happy, normal childhood? Do they have regrets when they are older about what they missed out on? Is it worth it to work so hard to get into an Ivy, when a solid school (like U of Mich for us - we live in Michigan) would be a snap?</p>
<p>I want to guide DS appropriately and would love to hear from those who have lived through this.</p>
<p>It is still early days yet for your child, just let him continue to enjoy childhood, but encourage him to always do his best at all he does, whether its EC or school -work! When he gets to high school, remind him to work hard from freshman year, find his passion, join the clubs, so that by junior year, the grades are great and he’s president of a club. My daughter attends yale, but has always worked hard from 8th grade on, she put 110% into schoolwork, clubs, community service, but still found time to enjoy life. of course, she couldn’t go to every party, but some. It was a nice balance. good luck!</p>
<p>Some kids are willing to put in the time and effort it takes to be a candidate for top colleges; others are not.</p>
<p>One of mine did it and ended up at a top 20 school; the other followed his own path and ended up at our state university – where he had a good four years. </p>
<p>I cannot judge which approach is better. I suspect that each took the path that was better for him or her.</p>
<p>I don’t know how my D “did it,” but I know it was HER that wanted to do it all. She didn’t take the heaviest load academically - mostly honors, only 2 APs - but she played a varsity sport (2 sports senior year), danced competitively 10 hours per week, played a club sport in the “off-season,” was a Peer Leader, Peer Mentor, member of NHS, and a Class Officer all 4 years. She’d come home and tell me she had signed up for something else and I’d say, “How are you going to handle all this and do your homework?” But she preferred to be busy. Downtime for her was wasted time. The more she had to do, the better she did it. She still managed to end up in the top quarter of her hs class.</p>
<p>OTOH, my son was a top student (top 5%) but had limited EC’s. He is the kind of kid that needed to come home and have a couple hours of downtime before tackling homework. Trying to keep up with his sister’s schedule would have left him completely stressed out.</p>
<p>Since my son was my oldest, I fell into the trap of comparing D’s grades to her brother’s. Mistake. Added more pressure and pushed her to be someone she wasn’t. Eventually I figured it out and backed off.</p>
<p>Both are at the college of their choice and are very happy. (S will graduate this year and has a 3.8 GPA).</p>
<p>(Interestingly, D is a freshman in college and although she went into college with a big list of things she wanted to do/join, she has so far only joined 2 things and only participated in one of them. She is loving her college, has lots of friends and is doing well academically. But when I asked her about all the activities she had planned to join she said, “They all take too much of a time commitment. And you know what? Turns out I really like having free time!”)</p>
<p>The key is letting your CHILD take the lead. Support those things he/she is passionate about, but don’t ever push them to join/do something because you think an admissions officer will like it.</p>
<p>Some kids just want to do it all. My youngest kid was like that. He’d sign up for activities in HS that I never knew existed. He’d petition to get into some classes that I didn’t… you get the point. It’s really the HS, the kid and his/her friends that will made the difference. </p>
<p>His friends were so involved in so many things that doing the same was just natural. I suppose he was lucky to have found “his people”, but they found him too. They encouraged each other. The best part was that, by the end of all those four years, they had all had fun in those activities AND they got into some amazing schools.</p>
<p>don’t think that just because your child was labeled gifted, that automatically means they should be looking at HYPS. There are tons of kids these days being identified as gifted.</p>
<p>I have 4 kids, my girls are/were busier with EC’s then the boys. My D that’s a JR is a doing it all kid. I’m not sure how she is doing it all. I think there are things she’s missed out on by “doing it all”. She doesn’t have the good gal pals and hasn’t spent much time at the mall or at parties. I’m not missing the parties, to be honest. I told her that she couldn’t do everything when she got to high school and she argued up one side down the other. Instead of fighting, I thought she’d hit burn out and quit one. Nope, she’s still doing it all. What is all
All honor or AP classes, all A’s (at a top public high school)
mentor a freshman group for advisory (after or before school meetings and in school stuff)
leadership group outside of high school
spring sport freshman sophomore years
top debater in a school with 180 debaters on the squad
dance outside of school minimum of 10 hours a week
voice lessons
somewhat involved in youth group activities
I’m just glad she’s driving herself these days.</p>
<p>My kids never had “Ivy league dreams.” But they were always good students (in GT classes since K). We just let them do what they wanted in terms of ECs. They both quickly focused in elementary school and continued with the same ECs all through HS. One child wanted to be involved in lots of activities in addition to primary EC - the other didn’t. He prefers video games over club meetings, etc. So far, one accepted to her school of choice and loving it. The other is a soph in HS and having a ball. My main advice: Don’t put any pressure on your kid to perform. They will find their own happy medium of classes, ECs, etc. And that level is different for every child. I see too many parents pressuring their kids to pursue the parent’s dream - whether that is Ivy league, or Division I sports, or whatever. Makes for a miserable kid and/or adult later in life.</p>
<p>It seems like kids that can handle it and want to do it succeed. I don’t intend to push my son, but I do want to make sure that he (and I) know what needs to be done if he has that dream.</p>
<p>Where we live, very few go to Ivies and so there is very little information within our community. I guess I was just shocked to see what was necessary for a child to do to get into one of these schools!</p>
<p>You can’t compare. It may be all different by the time your son is in HS. It certainly was different when i applied! But, remember, you’re only reading a very small portion of applicants and usually those are the ones who are very proud of all they’ve accomplished. It’s actually all individualized, just like everything else. That’s why there’s no “set” SAT/ACT scores, or gpa, or # of AP classes you should take or ECs to do. As it’s been mentioned, don’t think there are only 4 colleges out there too.</p>
<p>LFMF: When my kids were in middle school and showed an interest in something, I would often encourage it by providing materials or opportunities for them to explore further (Rosetta Stone software for Latin, for example, along with the first Harry Potter book written in Latin). But quite often they expressed an interest when it was really just a passing curiosity, and by then I had already bought them a bunch of software and the first Harry Potter book written in Latin, and then they felt like I was pushing them to do something they didn’t really want to do and they had to do it otherwise I had wasted a bunch of money (as if the first Harry Potter book written in Latin could ever be considered a waste).</p>
<p>So if your gifted kid takes a few steps down a path that you think might lead to the Ivies, don’t push too soon or too hard. More recently I read an article that said when a parent injects himself or herself into their child’s interest, it removes the kid’s sense of ownership of that activity, causing them to lose interest. This is probably even more true in high school, and I have since backed way off.</p>
<p>Some kids get into Ivies and the like without working hard in high school. He took a lot of APs by his school standards (8 or 9), was involved in two ECs at school neither of which were that time consuming, never did more than a couple of hours of homework, and spent most of his time on an activity (computer programming and generally messing around with computers in one way or another) that he enjoyed. Younger son spent more time on homework, but not much more on ECs. Didn’t get into Ivies, didn’t have perfect grades, but still managed to get into some schools that in the top 20 or so of the USNWR list. </p>
<p>I think we are lucky that we don’t live in a community that has gotten too crazy.</p>
<p>I should clarify, neither of my kids is at an Ivy. S is at a top-40 LAC, D is at a top-5 Regional Masters-Level University (in USNWR rating terms). </p>
<p>There are many many many wonderful colleges and universities in this country. Don’t be blinded by people focused on the schools with 10% admit rates. Most colleges admit more than 50% of applicants.</p>
<p>Our two Ds are / were at an Ivy and their younger brother in HS could be competitive for the Ivies as well, but none ever had that in mind or really even aspired to it. They all got good grades, read a lot, and did extraordinary volumes of ECs with significant awards - none of it for the purpose of college admission. For them it was just their definition of a happy, normal childhood. They missed out on nothing that I can tell other than, perhaps, part-time jobs; all of their activities constituted those experiences that they wanted to be certain they didn’t miss. Is it worth it to work so hard to get into an Ivy? Honestly, I never saw any of my kids work at getting into an Ivy (except for preparing their applications) - they only did what fueled their passions and made them happy.</p>
<p>Don’t knock U of Michigan, either. I grew up in Michigan and probably would have been labeled as “gifted” if they had done so back then. I went to U of Michigan, as my parents had no interest in paying out of state or private tuition for “just a girl”. I now know I was extremely lucky to grow up in a state with such a wonderful state university. I got a great education there, and met a lot of the smartest people I have ever known (both students and professors). I am sure I would have enjoyed the personal attention of a LAC as well, but I would match my education up against anyone’s. I got a masters degree from another Big 10 school in the state I moved to after graduation, and all I can say is “Meh”. Especially regarding the quality of students. There is a “spark” of intelligence to the UofM students that in retrospect was one of the greatest things about going to school there.</p>
<p>I will say this about growing up in Michigan. My hometown’s public schools were pretty bad. There was a private Catholic high school in town, but it was worse than the public schools (for example, they didn’t even offer calculus). I think because of the strength of the manufacturing industry in Michigan, the state has never had a need for strong K-12 schools; you could get a great job without a great education. I scrambled my first year at Michigan to develop better study habits and learn to write an adequate essay (I was a very good creative writer and had good grammar from years as a reader, but had never even been taught to write a 5 paragraph essay). I had never read a word of Shakespeare or pretty much any other famous author, either. If I hadn’t been smart and adapted in a hurry, I would have flunked out (one friend from high school did). It may be quite difficult, depending on your location, to get a good education for your son prior to college. And everyone will tell you their schools are “very good” (my hometown would have said so!). </p>
<p>So if you can afford it, I would consider trying to give him some summer opportunities that allow him to develop his academic interests outside of school. Have him take the SAT or ACT as part of the NUMATS (Midwest Academic Talent Search) program next year; that can open up a lot of opportunities.</p>
<p>By the way, getting into U of Michigan isn’t such a snap these days, even for in state students (those out of state students are A LOT more profitable for them, so there is a lot of competition to get in). Easier than HYPS, of course. But no cakewalk. D1 was waitlisted there even though she would be a 4th generation Wolverine with fairly good stats (not great, but pretty good). Nephew applied this fall, but is pessimistic about his chances. Good student, but from the same lousy district I grew up in. But it is a blessing that you live in a state with a good option.</p>
<p>I think sometimes kids do it on their own, and more often than not it has a lot to do with their environment and their family (not just immediate family). I am one of those parents that do not believe just leaving to kids to figure out or do what they want to do. Our kids knew since first day of high school, every one of their grades counted if they wanted to go to a top school.</p>
<p>When our kids were younger (middle school), I had some very well intentioned teachers telling me that my kids were too focused when it came to their school work. What they were referring to was my kids were never late with their homework, and when they got a bad grade on their test they would actually go see their teacher about it. They viewed that as abnormal. But in high school, many teachers asked me how we raised such responsible kids.</p>
<p>Our kids didn’t get tutored in high school, except for SATs. They didn’t take any college course, and they didn’t go to any summer academic enrichment program. They just studied really hard during school year and they didn’t go out as much as their friends in high school because of other commitments.</p>
<p>D1 is very happy in college. She definitely feels all of her effort in high school did pay off. She feels very well prepared for college. She is continuing most of her high school ECs in college. I think it’s a sign that she enjoyed what we “pushed” her to do when she was younger.</p>
<p>Since it’s too soon to know exactly what your S’ path will be through MS/HS it’s best to arm yourself (and him) with knowledge to position him well in to be as competetive as he reasonably can be. For example, he should get on the faster track of math and English assuming he can reasonably handle it. He should be aware of the significance of AP courses in HS and their value when it comes to college admissions as well as for college credits. If he wants to take an AP level foreign language then he needs to make sure he takes a few years of that language leading up to it. If he wants to take AP Calculus in HS then he needs to make sure he takes the pre-req courses leading up to it. He should be encouraged to do community service - hopefully in a way he enjoys or at least tolerates well. He should be encouraged to pursue ECs such as sports, theatre/dance/band, and overall get involved, etc. Through all of this you should make sure you’re not unduly pushing him and he can handle whatever load he has. </p>
<p>You’re doing the right thing to find out what he can do to position himself and give himself choices later. College apps will be just around the corner.</p>
<p>While I’m a senior and so don’t know whether I’ll get into HYSP, I am the type you’re describing–overachieving, multiple APs, multiple ECs, leadership roles, high class rank, etc. Not all of us have a happy time as highschoolers! I’m not depressed or anything, but I can say with a great deal of certainty that classmates who are a little less ambitious/involving/etc. are probably happier than I am. I mean, I still go to homecoming and will go to prom and hang out with friends and all that, but sometimes I wish I had a little more free time. I don’t think it’s healthy to be sleeping 5hr/night on weekdays and stuff… I’m often very, very stressed out. However, while I sometimes have regrets I’m not really the partying type anyway–so I don’t regret not getting smashed every weekend and stuff. While U Michigan is a great school I’m the type of kid who wants to surround myself with high-achievers. Which means, of course, I’ve gotta be one myself…
As with anything, there are pros and cons; I’d say see what path your son seems to be carving out for himself and then push him to excel within that context. Good luck!</p>
<p>You can’t assume the OP’s high school even offers APs. My high school (and the one my nephew attends in Michigan) did not/does not offer any AP classes at all. And this is not really a small school, it has about 1,400 kids in the high school. It just was NOT a priority in the Michigan community I grew up in. Also, no one there even thinks to take the SAT twice, for example (they would look at you like you are crazy if you mentioned it to another parent). Nor does anyone even know what a SAT Subject Test is or how to prepare for one. I think there are exceptions in some communities, but the OP should check out whether the high school has any APs. Also, college counseling is pretty awful in my old community. My nephew got zero help from his counselor this year. So you may need to educate yourself a LOT (CC is a great resource for that!!) to help your son. Fortunately you are starting early. :D</p>
<p>And quomodo, don’t kid yourself by thinking there aren’t MANY high achievers at U of Michigan. Your world will not end and you will not be cast out into a wearisome mental wasteland if you don’t go to HYSP; there are some other colleges that can still kick your tail academically. My Michigan college bf had perfect SATs in a time when everyone only took it once, and no one I knew (including him) took a prep class. And that is before it was – um-- “rescored” for your generation. And I knew a lot of people as bright as he was. It helps that there is another large state university that siphons off many of the less talented students in the state. And they take a lot of out of state students with excellent stats/high scores.</p>
<p>I would echo what Gadad said, and will PM you more. But also wanted to say that I think 6th grade is way too early to be worrying about this. And don’t let any teachers give your “gifted” child more work, in terms of quantity. More quality is fine, but many teachers seem to think that more hours of work is what needed, rather than depth. Personally, I think “gifted” students sometimes more time to play and relax, because giftedness sometimes involves experiencing things more intensely.</p>